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Author Topic: What happened to the House of Ideas?  (Read 1192 times)

shadowknight

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What happened to the House of Ideas?
« on: November 02, 2016, 10:07:39 PM »

Eventhough I'm know on the board as a SM & Batman Fanboy. I used to love to read Thor, Hercules, Hulk, Namor, Avengers, Defenders, FF and Champions. Nowdays with the exception of Squadron Supreme, Nighthawk, X-men with Magneto and Civil War II I can barely stand to read most Marvel books due to rehashing the same concept to near infinity.  They take 1 good idea and milk it to death.

1. Spiderman- There's a Black Spiderman, Spiderman 2099, Spider-woman, Spider-Girl, Silk, Venom & a couple more I can't recall right now.

2. Thor-There's Thorgirl, BRB, Angela, Thunderstrike, a female Thor

3. X-men-  Has way too many teams and comics staring various mutants. Suffice to say there's at least 3 versions of Wolverine running around in various X-books not including Sabretooth.

4. As for Marvel annual superhero mega events for the most part except for the main book have been underwhelming. Case point was Secret Wars II which outside of the main book was a showcase of crappy stories that had very little emotional impact and could have easily been a What If story except Marvel hype it to SWII to hype sales.


I won't even get into the killing of A, B & C list heroes only to bring them back a yr or 3 later. Marvel has brought back from death everyone except Uncle Ben & Stark parents. Does anyone with  2 brain cells to rub together  really believe that Hulk & Wolverine their 2 most bankable stars outside of Spider-man are going to stay dead? When Wasp, Thor, Colossus, Hawkeye, Nightcrawler, WM, Nighthawk, Prof X, Jean Grey,  Punisher and too many others to recall have been brought back numerous times.

Anyone agree? Disagree?

Thanos6

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Re: What happened to the House of Ideas?
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2016, 11:21:19 PM »

Personally, I quite like SWII, but I know what you mean.
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Thanos6

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Re: What happened to the House of Ideas?
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2016, 06:03:30 AM »

I blame Quesada and Bendis.
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scourge

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Re: What happened to the House of Ideas?
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2016, 09:20:39 AM »

I agree.
I've felt that way since like, 2005.

It's funny cause comics kind of sucked in the late 90's.


Personally I've been into a lot of Marvel runs since the turn of the century

Brubaker & Fraction on the Immortal Iron Fist
Much of the work on Daredevil including and especially Kevin Smith w/ Quesada & Bendis w/ Maleev (gasp)
Jason Aaron on Ghost Rider & actually most of Aaron's work including Thor
Remender on X-Force & Uncanny Avengers
The current Power Man & Iron Fist series
Ultimate FF under Ellis & Millar
Various Spider-Man stories but especially Joe Kelly's two parter about the Rhino
Etc.

MTL76

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Re: What happened to the House of Ideas?
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2016, 03:45:27 PM »

Marvel has been pretty damn stale for quite a few years. There are some runs I've been enjoying but they ten to be few and far between. Most of the ones Scourge mentioned, and:

Incredible Hercules
Fraction's Hawkeye
King's Vision
Waid's Daredevil
Wolverine as headmaster of the Jean Grey Institute

But these are relatively few and far between. The majority of Marvel's output has been unappealing. All of the go-to franchises of my youth - X-Men, Spider-Man (I know Slott is popular but I hate him), Avengers - are just dull and seem like they're cannibalizing themselves. Multiple Spider heroes, role swapping (Falcon as Cap? Jane as Thor? Original Five X-Men from the past?) just seem desperate to me. Gimmicks. When I was a kid I didn't think of comics in terms of "runs". I would read titles for years, and even if the creative teams changed the editorial teams made the transition seamless. Now, it just seems like a mess, like the creators are jsut phoning it in.


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MTL76

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Re: What happened to the House of Ideas?
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2016, 07:25:31 PM »

Another critique I have with Marvel (I know, I know, First World Problems) is the ... inbreeding ... between the different branches of the Marvel universe. Back in the day, the different franchises were very distinct. The X-Men had their corner of the MU, the Avengers had theirs, Daredevil had his, Spider-Man had his, etc.

Yes, there were cross-overs between these franchises, but these were relatively rare, so each franchise could develop its own unique feel. Also, because they were relatively rare, when they happened they were awesome. Secret Wars? The Trial of Magneto? The Death of Jean DeWolff? These were memorable because there wasn't a company-wide crossover every other month.

Now, it's like all of the franchises bleed into each other. Constantly. It dilutes the unique feel of each one, and it makes crossovers meaningless. Wolverine on the Avengers. Havok on the Avengers. Namor on the X-Men. Cloak and Dagger on the X-Men. Puck on the X-Men. Spider-Man on the Fantastic Four, and teaching at the Jean Grey Academy. Any one of these would have been cool, but taken all together it feels incestuous. It makes things bland. It makes things vanilla.

Remember how fucking cool Marvel team-Up was? Every month, Spider-Man teaming up with someone new, usually someone much less popular than he was, and serving as an introduction into a corner of the Marvel Universe that you might never usually read about? That title could never work now, because everyone crosses over with everyone.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2016, 07:27:42 PM by MTL76 »
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Clownprince23

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Re: What happened to the House of Ideas?
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2016, 09:35:49 PM »

There's also the saturation of Deadpool now. Seems every week there's a Deadpool version of whatever event is going on, or some stupid tie in to another franchise. Everything is so completely different, and not in a good way.
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Mightily Oats

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Re: What happened to the House of Ideas?
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2016, 05:22:24 AM »

Everything now wants that LCD market, because that's where the money is

(Lowest common denominator)

Appealing to one group just doesn't cut it anymore, because it's not as lucrative
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Whiskeyclone

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Re: What happened to the House of Ideas?
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2016, 11:39:37 PM »

I agree whole-heartedly on the "in-breeding" point.

I also think that right now it's at a creative low-point on a whole. Not a lot of notable talent, stale ideas, pointless tinkering, sloppy characterization, etc. I rarely like the biggest stuff because it's usually by Bendis or some other writer who I don't care for, but I've always had enough books that I was really into that it didn't matter too much. Now's the first time that's not been the case, they just seem like a sloppy mess.

- Brubaker's Immortal Iron Fist
- Remender on X-Force
- Captain Britain & MI:13
- Gillan's Journey into Mystery & Loki
- most of Aaron's first Thor run, plus all his Wolverine (Weapon X, Spiderman/Wolverine mini, Wolverine & the X-Men)
- Fraction & Allred's FF
- Brubaker's Captain America
- Bucky Barnes Winter Soldier
- Superior Foes of Spiderman
- most Thunderbolts-related stuff until the current crop

all come to mind as stand-outs in 2005-now era (especially up to and including Cap), and I'm sure I'm forgetting a few.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2016, 11:42:47 PM by Whiskeyclone »
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Strange

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Re: What happened to the House of Ideas?
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2016, 01:54:27 PM »

In-breeding isn't really a thing for me as it has been a staple since the 90's. Even constant "events" have been around for over 20 years. The days of when it actually worked to have titles be self-contained have long died and you can't blame the various comic companies as sales were dropping when they initially started doing "events" and then these "events" provided a constant (initial) sales boost which then dropped which in turn caused them to do another sales boost. DC held out the longest with their Vertigo line but even they finally broke when they dissolved Vertigo and attempted to bring it over to the main DCU.

The real problem for me is how most of the major titles are all written by a committee as opposed to a single writer now. Editors are literally writing portions of the story as well as providing outlines to the actual writers who in-turn add minor changes and dialogue. There is no singular voice of creative intelligence. It dumbs down stories and limits what can be done.

Strange

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Re: What happened to the House of Ideas?
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2016, 01:56:12 PM »

That is also why you have mostly minor titles which turn out to be great as there is less interference with the creative process.

Strawman Abridged

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Re: What happened to the House of Ideas?
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2016, 12:16:40 AM »

I want a New Mutants book written by Bernie Sanders
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MTL76

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Re: What happened to the House of Ideas?
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2016, 10:49:43 AM »

I want a New Mutants book written by Bernie Sanders

Mike Pence would make a good William Stryker.

Chris Christie as the Blob.

Rudolph Giuliani as the Toad.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2016, 10:53:52 AM by MTL76 »
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Whiskeyclone

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Re: What happened to the House of Ideas?
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2016, 08:17:58 PM »

I want a New Mutants book written by Bernie Sanders

Mike Pence would make a good William Stryker.

Chris Christie as the Blob.

Rudolph Giuliani as the Toad.

I'd already seen a Pence/Stryker comparison picture, but wow, those all fit perfectly.

scourge

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Re: What happened to the House of Ideas?
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2016, 12:29:21 PM »

I want a New Mutants book written by Bernie Sanders