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Great Krypton! How the heck is PJ Tomasi this good?

Gamma Burst

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Re: Great Krypton! How the heck is PJ Tomasi this good?
« Reply #30 on: October 02, 2016, 07:17:44 AM »
Nonsense. The power level of a comic character is an integral part of their mythos. Tomasi is using Superman's power level as a backdrop against which to write these great stories. And it's not just Tomasi. Some of the other Superman stories are also quite good--I enjoyed Trinity, for example. And their writers are doing the same thing.
Why are Diana and Bruce so interested in finding out who the new Superman is? Power level. What makes Jon's story extra compelling? The stakes, and the responsibility entailed in such high stakes. The day at the fair story in Superman 7 resonates precisely because of the contrast between how powerful Superman and his family are and the simple life they are striving to live.
Of course power levels matter when it comes to crafting a good story.

You have some good points here.

g-train

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Re: Great Krypton! How the heck is PJ Tomasi this good?
« Reply #31 on: October 02, 2016, 10:46:32 AM »
Whats interesting is its kind of the reverse of the superman mythos in a sense, instead of country people moving to the city it's city people moving to the country.

He's trying "not" to do the hero thing instead of trying to do it.


Pillow Biter

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Re: Great Krypton! How the heck is PJ Tomasi this good?
« Reply #32 on: October 02, 2016, 10:57:26 AM »
You have some good points here.

Thanks. I think a lot of the other posters probably agree with me, but we're having trouble communicating. Understandably, when many posters see a Superman fan saying that power levels are important to story, they immediately just see another bullshit rationalization for why Superman must be the uberest and should pwn everyone else 11/10 in every issue.
But I'm not saying that at all. Just pushing back at the extreme idea that power levels aren't important to a good story at all.

80sBaby

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Re: Great Krypton! How the heck is PJ Tomasi this good?
« Reply #33 on: October 02, 2016, 11:06:55 AM »
But in this case, they aren't. Yes, Batman and WW are concerned due to his power but also because of his relation to "their" Superman. Both Clark's could've been street-level and the story could still play out the same, they just wouldn't mention his power. It isn't necessary but, since it exists, a good writer will use it.

Pillow Biter

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Re: Great Krypton! How the heck is PJ Tomasi this good?
« Reply #34 on: October 02, 2016, 11:12:11 AM »
The precise details of just how powerful Superman needs to be for these stories to work, or work best, would make for an interesting discussion.
But I think street-level is way too low. That's basically getting back to the idea that power levels don't matter at all for these stories. None of these stories would have worked nearly as well if Superman was even at the jeans and t-shirt level he was at for much of the final part of the New 52.
I think it was pretty clear how important Superman and Jon's power level were to Bruce and Diana.

80sBaby

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Re: Great Krypton! How the heck is PJ Tomasi this good?
« Reply #35 on: October 02, 2016, 11:23:43 AM »
See, that's where you go wrong. Writers don't care about 'interesting discussion.' They care about good stories and power levels don't necessarily play a part in that. That's why they tend to vary so much from story to story. Sure, there's continuity to think of but not everyone is as pedantic as battle boarders.

And it's only played as important because it already exists but that doesn't mean it's important to make the story work. IOW, if they made no mention of Superman's power level, this story would've still been just as great.

Pillow Biter

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Re: Great Krypton! How the heck is PJ Tomasi this good?
« Reply #36 on: October 02, 2016, 11:44:23 AM »
Him making no mention of the existing power levels is still using the power levels that have been established. They were still important story points.
As I said, Superman #7 works as well as it does because of the contrast between Superman's power level and the simple life he is trying to lead. And Tomasi knows this--and has thought about it. It's not a story a writer would have told when Superman was functioning at a much lower power level, and Diana was nursemaiding him.
Writers care and think a lot about power levels when it's called for; they just tend to think about them in a different way than most battle boarders do.

80sBaby

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Re: Great Krypton! How the heck is PJ Tomasi this good?
« Reply #37 on: October 02, 2016, 11:47:55 AM »
To make this easier, I think the issue here is the term "important." I think that removing his power level doesn't change the quality of the story and is thus, unimportant.

The contrast isn't about his powers. It's about his superheroing. Basically, it's a story about juggling one's career and family life. How much Clark can lift is irrelevant.

Pillow Biter

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Re: Great Krypton! How the heck is PJ Tomasi this good?
« Reply #38 on: October 02, 2016, 01:04:26 PM »
I see we have a different take on this story. I honestly don't see it working nearly as well for say a married Spider-man.

80sBaby

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Re: Great Krypton! How the heck is PJ Tomasi this good?
« Reply #39 on: October 02, 2016, 02:02:26 PM »
I see we have a different take on this story. I honestly don't see it working nearly as well for say a married Spider-man.

Lol it'd be the exact same. In fact, Spider-Man is the easiest to see how power levels wouldn't matter here.

Again, you're focused on the wrong thing and miss the point of the story. That's why people were putting in the "typical Superfan who only cares about power levels" category.

Pillow Biter

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Re: Great Krypton! How the heck is PJ Tomasi this good?
« Reply #40 on: October 02, 2016, 02:22:17 PM »
We see the story completely differently, indeed. You could work the busy superhero with no time for family angle of it well enough with other characters, but it's the combination of this theme with simple home life/great power contrast that makes it shine. A writer as capable as Tomasi would write something different for a much less powerful hero.

INDRA THUNDERER

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Re: Great Krypton! How the heck is PJ Tomasi this good?
« Reply #41 on: October 04, 2016, 01:25:08 PM »
Jesus PB!This is a great Superman book...just leave it at that!

Pillow Biter

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Re: Great Krypton! How the heck is PJ Tomasi this good?
« Reply #42 on: October 04, 2016, 02:41:26 PM »
I'm just going where the other posters take the conversation. THEY should stop saying things that suggest this story is somehow the poster boy for why power levels are irrelevant.

It is a great story. And it certainly is an example of a great Superman story where other heroes aren't made to look bad, or where Superman's superiority isn't rubbed gratuitously in our faces. I approve of both things.

But the idea that power levels are irrelevant to good stories is wrong.

Gamma Burst

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Re: Great Krypton! How the heck is PJ Tomasi this good?
« Reply #43 on: October 04, 2016, 08:44:38 PM »
I'm just going where the other posters take the conversation. THEY should stop saying things that suggest this story is somehow the poster boy for why power levels are irrelevant.

It is a great story. And it certainly is an example of a great Superman story where other heroes aren't made to look bad, or where Superman's superiority isn't rubbed gratuitously in our faces. I approve of both things.

But the idea that power levels are irrelevant to good stories is wrong.

Agreed on everything.