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Scourge's Top 50 Hand to Hand combatants in the Marvel Universe

scourge

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What can I say? I'm on a kick. Nods to fangirl. She did something like this for overall most powerful beings in DC. I'm more interested in street levelers and hand to hand skill... and Marvel.

I'll go in reverse order. If you've seen my other threads you can probably guess something of the order. Alright then, here goes.

Edit: I wrote these entries a bit for an audience that might be a little naive to the characters, but I'm sure telling you guys Psylocke had her body switched on her for example is nothing new. Cause only nerds post on this site.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2016, 02:51:11 PM by scourge »

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Re: Scourge's Top 50 Hand to Hand combatants in the Marvel Universe
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2016, 02:39:04 PM »
50.   Punisher – Frank Castle

If this list was about who could take the biggest beating and keep on fighting, Punisher would be near or at the top. Ol’ Frank is great in a fight, but he’s a brawler, and not even the best brawler on the list. However the reason guys like Frank can hang with guys in the top 10 (at least for a bit) is his damage soak and the fact that he often prepares really well. Good enough for the top 50, not good enough to be any higher. It should be noted, he could be bumped off by a few characters I thought of but did not include. Whatever though.

49.   Night Thrasher—Dwayne Taylor

Punsher could take a beating, Dwayne could too, but he didn’t always need to. His armor was state of the art. It was in fact in an issue of Punisher War Zone where we saw a great breakdown of the armor thanks to Punisher’s analysis. The kid was a bush league Batman. Trained by some of the best, single minded in his mission, but he never got anywhere. Never really took the fight to any big names. Good at cleaning up the streets, but he doesn’t rate very highly on the list.

48.   Hawkeye—Clint Barton

Known much more for his skill with a bow than his skill in hand to hand combat, he’s perhaps the best testament of what a little training by Captain America can do. Clint has fought w/o the bow on many occasions, including a stint on the New Avengers as the ninja Ronan (the second hero to operate under this title). Clint’s good, but he’s not great, and hence he comes in at number 48.

47.   Storm—Ororo Munroe

Too bad super powers aren’t a factor, otherwise Storm would be cleaning the clocks of almost everyone on this list. But with or without powers—she’s good. She operated for years with none. She beat Cyclops for leadership of the X-Men when she had no powers and he did (although he was incredibly distracted). Even more telling though is she beat Calisto, a mutant with enhanced physicality for leadership of the Morloks, again w/o powers. Pro tip, don’t challenge Storm to a fight for leadership, cause she’ll probably win.

46.   Shadow Cat—Katherine “Kitty” Pryde

Another X-Lady, and this one was a little tough to rank. Kitty at some point was possessed by a ninja demon, and after it was exercised, was left with all it’s skill. While it doesn’t show more often than not, sometimes it does in a big big way. Like when she took apart Lady Deathstrike, Wolverine’s old sparing partner. She’s grown as a hero and as competent and skilled in ways that would allow her to defeat others on this list, perhaps even without her powers, but those above have shown more skill much more often. It’s the dearth of skill showings that has her ranked this low.

45.   Finesse—Jeanne Foucault

This shortlived, Avengers Academy recruit who may or may not have been the daughter of Taskmaster posed his ability to learn the moves of anyone she saw instantly. She even gave the potential Old Man a good tussle when Taskmaster came to check on her, but it was never in doubt who was better. She’s good, but not as good as Taskmaster and Taskmaster isn’t even the best move copier on this list, therefore she doesn’t make it out of the bottom 10%.

44.   Kingpin—Wilson Fisk

Fisk doesn’t need to know how to fight. He’s all muscle. So powerful Spider-Man has felt helpless in his grasp. All the same, he can fight and fight pretty well. In his prime he was constantly training and this is what made him so dangerous. He looks like a slow lumbering ox, but he moves like a martial arts master. That kind of skill in that kind of body can be a dangerous combination.

43.   Shatterstar—Gaveedra Seven

He was raised in a world where people fought for survival in gladiator style bouts for the amusement of an entertainment obsessed universe. And he was one of the best there, but he favors showmanship over skill and that has cost him. In his first encounter with Wolverine, for example, he was hopelessly outmatched. No doubt he has improved since then, holding his own against powerhouses like The Thing in recent times, but he hasn’t shown he’s up to snuff when compared to other skilled players and that leaves him down here in the 40’s.

42.   Cyclops—Scott Summers

One of, if not, the greatest leaders in the Marvel Universe, this guy can also fight. Even though he always has his trusty optic blast, he doesn’t always resort to it. Like the time he walked through Apocalypse’s Dark Rider’s w/o his powers. Just his skill. A judo master, he’s taught moves to other X-Men to improve them and is responsible for shaping them into a team. There are few in the X-Verse more skilled than Cyclops, but they do exists. A lot of X-characters in this first set, as while there are quite a few amongst them that are very skilled, they're often more about their powers than skill

41.   U.S. Agent—John Walker

Anyone who can fill the boots of Captain America, even if temporarily, is going to be good, if not great. Walker can fight. He also happens to benefit from legitimate super human strength, on par with Spider-Man, but it doesn’t mean he can’t throw down. Still, his skill deficit shows when he fought the man, Mr. X, who easily removed two of his limbs. But even after that he could still fight, taking down superhuman criminals trying to escape the prison he oversaw during a breakout. He did this from a wheel chair. The guy is the real deal.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2016, 12:40:17 PM by scourge »

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Re: Scourge's Top 50 Hand to Hand combatants in the Marvel Universe
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2016, 02:39:21 PM »
40.   White Tiger—Angela Del Toro

There have been many White Tigers before Angela, one after, and like all of them, she can fight. Like some of the X-Women (Psylock & Shadowcat), White Tiger didn’t have to do any work for her skill. It’s all in the amulet. She also gains superhuman physical attributes as well. She’s a bit tough to place, because there’s no doubt she’s a very skilled fighter, and I don’t know if certain ones are better than others, but she got taken apart by Lady Bullseye, even with her superhuman stats. Good, not great.

39.   The Shroud—Maximillion Collridge

The Shroud isn’t a character that sees too much action these days in Marvel. Even so, he’s had a long history of being a pretty impressive Martial Artist. Like Daredevil, he’s a bind fighter, he also has control of darkness, meaning he can take the sight away from anyone he’s up against, really leveling the playing field against those who may be better. While he is good, there are far better.

38.   Psylocke—Besty Braddock

A little like Shadowcat’s possession, Psylocke sort of inherited her powers thanks to a body switch with a real live ninja (long story). Unlike Shadowcat, this processes was never reversed. Psylocke’s mind still inhabits the body of a ninja, and with that switch came the skills of the ninja. For a long time she seemed good, but not better than Cyclops, or even Storm. Over the years though writers have played up her skill and she has become ever the more dangerous skilled combatant.

37.   Moon Knight—Marc Specter

Moon Knight is one of the more well known street level vigilantes, and this placement may seem a little low for someone given his track record, but like some of the people below him he has some pretty interesting advantages beyond his mercenary born skill. He has often received the blessing of a God making him incredibly strong. He has a damage soak to rival that of the Punisher. Some portrayals even make it seem like he enjoys the beating. And he has some wonderful gadgets. All and all he’s good, and can hang with other vigilantes but he’s never shown the skill to make him one of the greats, even if some of the greats have some crazy superhuman enhancements of their own.

36.   Bullseye—Lester

At one point this guy was a relatively even match for Daredevil. He was better than Elektra. Even though he was always known first and foremost for his aim, he was no less impressive in fighting skill. Over the years, however, his hand to hand skill has seemed to take in even further back seat to his aim. Still an incredibly dangerous villain, Elektra did get the better of him, and he soon became less and less of a challenge to Daredevil, though that is true of most of DD’s opponents. The last place anyone would want to be is his cross hairs, but these days many can outfight him.

35.   Black Widow—Natasha Romanoff

First and foremost a spy, it doesn’t mean she can’t fight. Jason Borne wishes he was on her level. At times she’s looked near even with Elektra, one of the deadliest women in the Marvel Universe. She’s about as good as a secret agent gets. There are however those on this list that fight much better than any secret agent.

34.   Crossbones—Brock Rumlow

Perhaps the finest combatant ever to be trained by Taskmaster, Crossbones has often been a thorn in Captain America’s side. One of his toughest opponents over the years. The guy is big, mean, and can seriously fight. What’s more he seems the kind of masochist that will really hurt his opponent given the chance, and I think there’s a good chance that he could do some serious damage to many on this list.

33.   Winter Soldier—Bucky Barnes

Bucky went from somewhat ineffective sidekick to dangerous Manchurian style candidate operative. He’s deadliest with a firearm but plenty deadly without. He’s what can be done with advanced psychological deconstruction and programing techniques. There are characters above him on this list who have that and a little something else, but he’s still plenty good.

32.   Taksmaster—Tony Masters

If you want your henchmen to fight, the tradition was, you send them to Taskmaster. He’s trained some of the best fighters in the Marvel Universe, including those on this list. And he’s given it to some of the best as well, even having great showings against the likes of Captain America, and one time evading the pursuit of several Avengers. And you’d think he should, he’s the first name in move copying. But for all his skill, and it is great, there are those on this list that have just simply embarrassed him. Sometimes he can’t catch a break and in this company that just won’t cut it.

31.   Echo—Maya Lopez

From her first appearance, Echo was showing what she could do, taking the fight to Daredevil, matching him very effectively. She could not hear, he could not see, he used her reliance on eyesight against her, but the fact that he had to resort to that speaks to her skill. She then served on the Avengers under the guise of Echo and has never looked too shabby. She’s also never looked as good as she did during her first appearance, but that’s ok. Her ability to instantly copy any moves she sees coupled with no super low showings means she’s already ahead of the game compared to others with such abilities like Taskmaster and Finesse.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2016, 08:04:29 AM by scourge »

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Re: Scourge's Top 50 Hand to Hand combatants in the Marvel Universe
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2016, 02:39:30 PM »
30.   Lady Bullseye—Maki Matsumoto

Inspired by the psychopath Bullseye, it is unlikely that with more appearances that she would remain above him, however in her limited exposure she has looked better. Daredevil noted that she was faster than the man she takes her namesake from and while lacking his deadly aim, she’s likely better in hand to hand skill, and that says a lot, and is the reason she cracks the top thirty.

29.   Daken—Akihiro

Wolverine’s son. The apple doesn’t fall very far from the tree. Like his old man, he can fight. He’s taken the mantle and looked good for the most part against some of Marvel’s biggest names. He’s never had the same level of success as his dad, but he’s more likely to fight with skill and control. Skill that has allowed him to claim this middlish point on the list.

28.   Batroc The Leaper—Georges Batroc

The world’s best savate fighter. Emphasis on the kicks. He’s given even Captain America trouble with just those kicks alone. Often thought of as something of a joke character, Batroc can easily be over looked, but he’s good. Winter Soldier couldn’t match him when he took over the mantle of Captain America, and really, it’s only against someone as good as Cap that a guy like Batroc could look at all mediocre.

27.   Puck—Eugene Judd

Experience counts for a lot to me, and Puck has that. He’s been at it since 1914 and even before he became a superhuman he was good, both knowing how to fight via martial arts, street fighting and incorporating acrobatics as well. Some of the best on this list combine many different fields and Puck is one of those. As a testament to his skill, Taskmaster has always been on the losing end of fights with Puck. Puck is too fast to be shot at by Deadpool. I mean his power might be a part of this? But he’s the only one who can sneak up on Wolverine, that to me is an aspect of skill.

26.   Lei-Kung The Thunderer

The teacher of two other members of this list who I would rank above him. Lei-Kung is clearly one of the best martial arts teachers around, and can certainly fight, but his students out do him... at least his best two students do. There’s no shame in that as his students are some of the best fighters in the Marvel Universe. It was bound to happen.

25.   Cable—Nathan Summers

Some might find this an oddly high placement for a character like Cable. He’s not a martial artist in the traditional sense, but man can he fight. In his first appearance he proved a match for Wolverine, and he’s never really looked bad against anyone. It makes sense that he should be so good though as he was raised by a clan of freedom fighters in the far future. His whole life has been fighting, mostly as a soldier, usually armed, but even without the weapons he can throw down with some of the best.

24.   X-23—Laura Kinney

A clone of Wolverine, she’s actually beaten her “dad” by fighting smart. Like Winter Soldier, she was somewhat programmed to be as good as she is, only they got their hands on her from birth. Of those who operate on the planet Earth, there’s only one woman I’d rank above her--of course if we go off planet, there may be a few more.

23.   Steel Serpent—Davos

A character defined by his rival, Davos is very good, but he’s no Iron Fist. This has been clearly outlined in his whole character arc. I would say, though that he is better than his teacher two spots up. He is the first of the Immortal Weapons that make the list. Only half do. While others may be good, the ones not listed haven’t done anything of note, with the exception of Bridge of 9 Spiders. I did not attempt to rank her as her skill seemed to differentiate from her being a horrific nightmare made of spiders.

22.   The Cat—Shen Kuei

Considered one of the greatest living practitioner of the Martial Arts, he’s often been a rival of Shang Chi. Some might say he’s as good, I think he’s a little less than his former rival. Especially over the years. Shang has only seemed to improve/maintain, but The Cat has lost half a step, and in that half a step comes a good 15 plus characters.

21.   Deadpool—Wade Wilson

Another walking joke character, Deadpool is actually incredibly skilled. He may not be serious about anything, but he can seriously fight and take it to many of the characters on this list. He has clean wins against big names all over the place.

« Last Edit: October 15, 2016, 10:41:38 AM by scourge »

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Re: Scourge's Top 50 Hand to Hand combatants in the Marvel Universe
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2016, 02:39:57 PM »
20.   The Mandarin

The Mandarin brings us into something a bit interesting that requires addressing. The Mandarin can rip Iron Man out of his armor with his bare hands. This is his chi, this is sort of skill but not really what we’re talking about. It’s incredibly impressive and I have no doubt he deserves to be in the top 20 but trying to separate that aspect of ability from true hand to hand skill begins to get a little tricky with characters like this. My gut says this is right from him based on how he’s looked against other skilled characters, but admittedly the territory is murky. Interesting to note, the Mandarin shares a couple things in common with many in this grouping: powers that are difficult to separate from skill, and characters we don't know the real name of. From here on out the characters skill level is just plain scary good. 'They shouldn't be able to do that' good.

19.   Slaymaster

Again a character who can take it to a super powered being, Captain Britain, with nothing but his skill. He broke his arm with a strike. What that says to me is that there’s something there. Something to be feared. And this guy should be feared. He removed Psylocke’s eyes because he’s that sick. Like I said, these guys are the scary ones.

18.   Karnak

Yet another character who’s amongst the best, and who’s power is hard to differentiate from his skill. Karnak can see the weakness in anything. Including his opponents style. It allows him to pretty much go toe to toe with anything or anyone. Is that power part of his skill? Kind of. As I said, earlier, this gets into some murky territory.

17.   Mr. X

Like many others on this list, some of his being so good is due to a power, he can read moves. Another aspect of his skill is that he knows EVERY fighting style on the planet and some from alien worlds. No doubt he relies too much on his power, but his power would mean nothing if he didn’t have that skill to back it up.

16.   Iron Fist—Danny Rand

The poster boy for power and skill being hard to differentiate. But more than any of the others here, Danny is known to be that good. Some might seem him coming in outside the top 10 and say to themselves, "WTF? He’s the best MA there is." Well chill out, AJ, I disagree. You think Gree is happy to see Temujin outside the top 10? Point is, I don’t think Danny's even the best of The Immortal Weapons though he may well be the best Iron Fist ever. Still, Shang Chi, who he’s often compared to was practically said to be just plain better by Black Panther, and Black Panther is a guy who knows. Anyways like I said stop complaining, he's still  well  within the best of the best territory, and if I wasn't including some obscure characters he'd easily be top 10.

15.   Wolverine—Logan

Wolverine is not simply a human, he is enhanced, faster reflexes, stronger, perhaps that’s part of why he’s so good. Often he doesn’t even bother to fight with skill because he can usually just take any kind of damage anyone can dish out. And this has cost him at times, but when he does bust out the skill? Yet he's still one of the best. For example he outdid Iron Fist in a sparing match and even though Iron Fist once made an entire X-Men roster including Wolverine look like armatures, Taskmaster once did that to an Avengers line up and look where he is on the list. Like I said, experience counts for a lot and he has well over a century of it. Not to mention he has the programmed fighter thing Winter Soldier and X-23 have. He also has been trained by Kung Fu masters and ancient Samurai’s the guy’s a little bit of everything with raw brawler instinct taking it all to the next level. In case you didn't know, I really like Wolverine, he's one of my favorite on the list, and while I think many under rate his skill, I don't see him any higher given some of the others ahead of him on this list.

14.   Fat Cobra

Another Immortal Weapon, I’d say if anything he’s better than Iron Fist (hence his placement). He certainly won the one fight between them, and while Iron Fist’s distraction is no doubt a factor there, we’ve never seen anything but Fat Cobra kicking ass and taking names. Seriously, the guy has only looked impressive, and that's one reason he's ranked (a little) above Iron Fist... besides also beating him. I would think he was the best of the Immortal Weapons if we didn’t know that there was one better.

13.   Elektra—Elektra Natchios

The deadliest assassin in the world. She is a master ninja, and one of the overall deadliest woman in the Marvel Universe. She’s only become more skilled over time, out doing her former killer, Bullseye. Taking over the hand. Likely the most skilled woman on Marvel Earth.

12.   Temujin

This is the son of the Mandarin. As good as his dad is, Temujin seems better. He’s done things like given the Hulk fits and trap beings of pure energy that no one else can even touch with his chi. When he fights Iron Man he refuses to use the rings, because that would give him an unfair advantage. He’s about as dangerous as a Martial Artist can get, and yes again, this is his skill mixing with power. That crazy Chi power.


11.   The Prince of Orphans—John Aman

The undisputed best of the Immortal Weapons. Here we have the question again, where does skill end and the power begin? It’s hard to say especially with him given his technique has him fighting in mist form most of the time, and in fact this ranking has given me the most trouble. First I had him at four, then 10, now I have him at 11, the gateway to the top 10. Still noticably a few spots up from the next two most skilled Immortal Weapons: Iron Fist and Fat Cobra. The reasons: 1.) simply how far he is above the other Immortal Weapons. All of them have esoteric powers, Danny can punch a helicarier out of the air and Fat Cobra can summon lightning and hold it like a whip, but even with such incredible powers, none would challenge the fact that PoO is above them. 2.) fear, he creates fear in the others. To be that far above the likes of the other is notable, even if his power is a factor in it. 3.) Experience. As I said it counts for a lot. He was hunting the previous Iron Fist and he’s still at it being the best of the weapons. Still, the question of where power ends and skill begins is not something that should be so prevalent for the top 10. And for those who think it's all power with this guy, look at Shadowcat, Amelia Voght, or any number of characters who can pull off similar intangible feats. They've got nothing on this guy.



« Last Edit: February 13, 2017, 11:13:16 AM by scourge »

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Re: Scourge's Top 50 Hand to Hand combatants in the Marvel Universe
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2016, 02:40:05 PM »
10.   Black Panther—T’Challa

Like with White Tiger (and a couple other characters here) there are a few people to wear the mantle of Black Panther, but I’m only going to discuss the most notable of them. T’Challa. The guy is seriously one of the best in the world. Some would make the claim that he is the best. Like Mr. X, I’ve read (from an unreliable source) that he knows every form of combat on Earth including some known to Wakanda alone. When a Super Skrull possessing the skill and ability of some of the other greatest MA’s of Earth he analized and took it apart. He’s made short work of Wolverine, matched Iron Fist, looked even with Captain America. He has some physical enhancement and a super durable suit to boot, but for the most part it’s skill with this guy.

9.   Gamora

Often called the deadliest woman in the universe, she also is very deserving of top 10 status. Like Midnight Sun she has some space chops, and best in all of space > best in all of Earth. For awhile I considered her the best female fighter in Marvel and possibly the best in general, but I no longer think that's true. Even though there are a couple women who rank better, but only two, and I question if they’re really all that far apart. She's lost some stock in my mind, but still has enough to qualify within the top 10.

8.   Midnight Sun—M’Nai

As close as The Cat comes to Shang Chi, Midnight Sun comes MUCH closer. They grew up training together. But it’s not only being close to Shang’s level that causes him to rank so high. He’s also been able to kick the Silver Surfer’s ass with his skill alone—albeit with some alterations and I don't actually think he ended Surfer. Then again Surfer is a guy who can no sell punches from Rhino so doing anything to him means something if it's from the right era (which their fight was). Honestly though, he is a bit tricky to rank, and I have moved him up some as he's always been about the skill even after his physical upgrades.

7.   Moon Dragon—Heather Douglas

Spoiler alert, she’s beaten a few of the characters above her, and I almost wonder if I’m ranking her too low. Though mostly known for her incredible telepathy, rivaling the best in the Marvel Universe, her skill seems to rival the best as well. The only reason I might not rank her higher is that she’s a psi first and a martial artist second, but that’s a poor reason I admit. It might just be that the final ones are those that I do think are better. A lot of these rankings are obviously close and are not easy, but I’m comfortable with placing her at number seven.

6.   Captain America—Steve Rogers

Here he is. The one you were maybe expecting to come in at number 1? Well I think there are only about as many better that you can count on one hand, but only those 5. Yes he’s a good pick for number one, but he’s had some trouble from Task Master, and has no clean wins against anyone above him. In fact the person who is at number one is there mostly because of the performance against Cap (can you figure it out?). A clean skill win on Cap means that much to me, and unsurprisingly I’ve often compared characters to Cap throughout the list. He’s no doubt one of the best. And honestly if I did see him placed at number one on a list I'd get that and wouldn't really challenge it.

5.   Shang Chi

The Master of Kung Fu. You knew I was going to put him pretty far up there...This is controversial, I know. Most here aren’t that big fans, he often gets overlooked, but I think he may very well be the most underrated Martial Artist at Marvel. For one he is one of the only guy doing this unenhanced/augmented in anyway, but that of course would not be enough. It’s that no one can seem to take him. Cap in a sparring match managed to trade blows with him (like I said means a lot to me). Wolverine traded wins with him. As I said earlier Black Panther essentially flat out said he was better than Iron Fist. He may very well be the best open handed fighter on the planet.

4.   Daredevil—Matt Murdock

Like Wolverine, Like Puck, Daredevil combines raw martial arts skill with a brawler’s instinct. The son of a boxer, this factors into his fighting. Trained by a ninja master, this is really the core of his skill. He has powers too, the senses, and that maybe gives him an almost unfair advantage, but look at The Shroud who has the same powers more or less and then some, The Shroud has never been this good. Daredevil has showed Wolverine up. Cap couldn’t take him out even with prep. Iron Fist looked second rate next to him. Luke Cage couldn’t take him in the ring. He wrecked Karnak in the midst of a big Karnak push. He's defeated Taskmaster multiple times with such ease it was embarrassing in fact the beatdowns were early indicators to me that despite some opinions Daredevil is one of the best, and Taskmaster, despite that amazing power is not. Even Black Panther couldn’t do what Daredevil did when he was filling in. He had to resort to using his genius (which is fair that guy is also in the top 10 department on that list). But this guy, Daredevil, well he is the king of street level characters at Marvel and that’s why he’s ranked in the top 5. The others in the top 5 however are likely beyond even him.

3.   Stick

If Daredevil is the king of streets, we have to look to who trained him. Now with Iron Fist and Steel Serpent I think we have two students that out did the master. With Stick (and Master Izo) I don’t think we have that. Stick has a rep for a reason. He’s practically untouchable For the record Stone would be somewhere… don’t know where. Don't think anyone will argue with him begin ranked this high. Many might say it's not high enough.

2.   Master Izo

We haven’t seen much of him, but it only seems right that he’d be above Stick as Stick is above Daredevil. The original Chaste, fighting the good ninja fight for over a millennium. Hell he may be deserving of number one, but again we haven’t seen enough from him. From what we have seen, he’s virtually untouchable. I initially was only going to list him as a cliff note in Stick’s entry but then my numbering system got messed up so he gets a spot… just think though, everyone you like should be one level higher, except of course the number one spot.

1.   Mantis

The Celestial Madonna. Remember when I said beating Captain America counts for a lot? She dropped him in a fair fight, no bullshit, like a ton of bricks. No one does that to Cap. She did. Moon Dragon might have beaten her, but see my excuses on why Moon Dragon is only number seven below. For the record Moon Dragon also beat Cap but it was a Cap w/o his usual Super Soldier Serum. Mantis has also looked more of a comic relief character in more recent portrayals. All reason to think the number one spot at Marvel, just as with any of these spots is something fluid. But she dropped Cap like it was nothing. No one does that to Cap. She dropped Thor too. Again, who is this Mantis that she can do this? The best fighter at Marvel in my opinion, and even though the whole list is murky, I think Mantis has earned the top spot, not just through rep but through deeds.








« Last Edit: February 13, 2017, 11:12:52 AM by scourge »

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Re: Scourge's Top 50 Hand to Hand combatants in the Marvel Universe
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2016, 02:54:56 PM »
Is this based on "pure hth skill"(something that should be defined and it's very hard to do ihmo) or overall combat ability?
Really I can see spanking Ororo and Cyke's ass,Kingping also should rank way better.

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Re: Scourge's Top 50 Hand to Hand combatants in the Marvel Universe
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2016, 02:59:25 PM »
As close to pure HtH skill as I can get... however many characters have skill that sort of blend into their powers and its hard to separate. It's an attempt. It won't be perfect, but an attempt. Like given equal bodies, but not taking away a power that factors into their style, often times their bodies factor in more to their style, so yeah, nebulous, a lot of got stuff. This can't be scientific obviously. Not attempting a punch-o-meter here.

As to Kingpin, he fell off, and it didn't seem like a joke or a bastardization of the character, it just seemed like him honestly losing a step. Like his last fight with Daredevil wasn't even a fight.

scourge

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Re: Scourge's Top 50 Hand to Hand combatants in the Marvel Universe
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2016, 02:20:18 PM »
And there they all are, the best of the best.

Average John

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Re: Scourge's Top 50 Hand to Hand combatants in the Marvel Universe
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2016, 03:55:28 PM »
Iron Fist at 14? WTF HES THE BEST MA THERE IS

scourge

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Re: Scourge's Top 50 Hand to Hand combatants in the Marvel Universe
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2016, 06:53:08 PM »
Thank you for indulging me

fangirl101

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Re: Scourge's Top 50 Hand to Hand combatants in the Marvel Universe
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2016, 06:58:32 PM »
This was cute boo. Took a que out of my book with a top 50 list. I hate our old board came down. 😭

Toilet Bunny

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Re: Scourge's Top 50 Hand to Hand combatants in the Marvel Universe
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2016, 07:00:00 PM »
Puck is surprisingly high as is Slaymaster.  I would argue Iron Fist is more skilled than Wolverine, though.

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Re: Scourge's Top 50 Hand to Hand combatants in the Marvel Universe
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2016, 07:13:24 PM »
This was cute boo. Took a que out of my book with a top 50 list. I hate our old board came down. 😭

Very much in your style. I wish stuff from the old board could be recovered as well

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Re: Scourge's Top 50 Hand to Hand combatants in the Marvel Universe
« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2016, 07:17:44 PM »
Puck is surprisingly high as is Slaymaster.  I would argue Iron Fist is more skilled than Wolverine, though.

Maybe Iron Fist is more skilled than Wolverine, but either way I think they're close. Personally I think Wolverine is better based on what seemed their cleanest fight.

As to that and Puck, and Slaymaster, you can see I've got a lot of love for characters from the extended X-verse. Slaymaster impressed me so much when I first read a fight between him and Captain Britain, and I've never seen him look bad, but I could see the places around him rearranged a little. Puck also may be a little too high, you may be right, but he has that old pro thing like he's fought every fight, seen every possible in and out of hand to hand action. Many of these guys are so close and they go up and down in skill, and it's a bit of a nebulous factor to begin with. All that is to say I could agree with all those calls. Some of these characters were moved last minute.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2016, 07:19:16 PM by scourge »