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Music, Movies, Tv and Books / Re: Why do most cinematic universes fail?
« Last post by therock on November 23, 2017, 01:02:10 PM »
I'm not going to watch the video but there is one big failure move for cinematic universes. Too much at one time. Look at the Van Helsing movie. They wouldn't basically do a shared universe around Van Helsing but the fucked up by chopping up 3 movies worth of story and trying to put it all into one.

Wait was that suspose to be the start of the monster universe

thought it was Dracula untold that was going to be it
ICT / Re: Deathstroke vs Fandral The Dashing
« Last post by MTL76 on November 23, 2017, 12:47:48 PM »
^^^ No. Batman may not be “enhanced” but he’s still insanely strong for a regular human and we don’t count that against his skill showings.
Music, Movies, Tv and Books / Re: Why do most cinematic universes fail?
« Last post by NeoGreenLantern on November 23, 2017, 12:25:37 PM »
I'm not going to watch the video but there is one big failure move for cinematic universes. Too much at one time. Look at the Van Helsing movie. They wouldn't basically do a shared universe around Van Helsing but the fucked up by chopping up 3 movies worth of story and trying to put it all into one.
ICT / Re: New comic stuff worth talking about but not worth its own thread
« Last post by NeoGreenLantern on November 23, 2017, 12:22:07 PM »
So you think the writer used a well known sci fi concept thats been used in Star Trek, Hitchhiker's Guide, Stargate, Scott Pilgrim, etc, etc, etc the exact same way and then decided to use it differently? But actually none of that matters because when you boil down your argument it makes so little sense.

You think its a feat that Superman can go faster than light when he doesn't have to obey physics... Literally everyone can go faster than the speed of light if they didn't have to obey physics.
ICT / Re: Hank Hill vs Homer Simpson
« Last post by LiquidSailor on November 23, 2017, 12:12:16 PM »
Again, has Hank ever actually done anything besides make threats?

I think Hank might be all talk and no show considering his Dad treats him like a bitch, his wife owns him, his boss takes advantage of him, and his son ain't right.  All despite Hank's supposed badassary.

I'm not saying Homer wins, but I am not aware of any instance of Hank actually making good on this threats of violence.
ICT / Re: Deathstroke vs Fandral The Dashing
« Last post by The Shuruku Demon on November 23, 2017, 12:08:38 PM »
I was hoping you'd address the larger point (that it's silly not factor in a character's concept in some cases), rather than focusing on a flaw in the particular example I gave.

I saw no flaw in your question and I took the character concept of Fandral being an Asgardian into account to determine he's stronger than Spider-Man.  I don't really know what you were expecting.  How would you determine Fandral was stronger than Spider-Man?

Primarily with the knowledge that he's a member of a race that appear to be stronger than Spidey generally. If Fandral happens to have feats that actually prove that, then great, but I'd be happy to take it on the basic concept of what he is.

You're fixating on this specific comparison though, and still not addressing the larger point that it's silly not to factor in a character's core concept in cases where feats are lacking.

Why not? Isn't Fandral a paper tiger, like you said?

I just told you exactly why I think Fandral wins this fight.  I see no evidence in Ka-Zar beating a 30 ton brick and I don't see a knife beating a sword in a duel.  You could replace Fandral with Volstagg and I'd tell you the same.  In fact, even if they were in equal bodies, I think I might still favor a sword user simply because a sword >>>> knife.

What if Fandral were using a knife instead of his sword?

I'm not sure how consistent it is with some of your previous statements. For example, you cited Slade's win against a knife-wielding Vigilante as a feat that was supposedly beyond Fandral's ability to match. Now you're saying you favour Fandral over a knife-wielding Ka-Zar. So is the female Vigilante more formidable than Ka-Zar in your mind? Because if not, those two positions are incompatible.

The knife-wielding Vigilante was fighting a knife-wielding Deathstroke, so it was fair as far as weapons go.  I'm not sure why you are choosing to ignore the situation of sword vs knife.  In a situation in which Ka-Zar, a knife-fighter were fighting Fandral, a swordsman, I would favor the swordsman because he has a sword.  How are you not getting that?

I forgot that Slade was using a knife in that fight rather than his sword.

Also, I never said Fandral could or could not beat that chick in a knife fight (especially since I know very little about her).  You were asking for Deathstroke sword fighting feats, so I gave the ones I found.  I threw in the knife fight as it was similar to a sword fight.

I didn't just ask for sword fights. I was looking for showings you considered beyond Fandral's capability. There's no point in posting showings you think Fandral can match.

What if a character has no feats though? How can nonexistent feats be the primary way of assessing a character?

At that point, there's little to no reason to bring him into a battle board debate.

So why do you seem to have such a strong view of what level Fandral is at as a swordfighter?

In Deathstroke's case, we have an extensive history of combat showings to help define him, in addition to what we know about his basic concept.

Yeah, I know.  We've established that.

You asked me "What else do we have to go on?", besides the concepts of each character, so I answered.

In Fandral's case, we have very little to define his abilities by beyond the basic concept. So we can either make an educated guess about him based on his concept, ignore the concept and take a stab in the dark, or just give up and not attempt to assess him at all.

Yeah, if you can't make an argument for Fandral, you should give up.  Agreed.

I have made an argument for Fandral, and the points I've offered are actually more positive than yours, since they're about things we know, or can be reasonably confident of. Your means of assessing him has been much more negative, focusing on the gaps in our knowledge of the character, things we can't be remotely sure about.

Centuries of combat experience don't seem to make characters better than the best mortal fighters. The human level A-listers represent the gold standard in HtH combat especially. That said, Thor didn't seem that far below Captain America when he was depowered to human levels. And I'm inclined to think the writer was taking into account his core concept as a warrior god with centuries of experience as a reason why Thor wouldn't suddenly be useless despite being powerless.

Like I said, the old guys get lip service every now and then.  Whenever this Thor storyarc is brought up, people accurately point out that he never fought on Cap's level before or sense.  It's something that gets brought up very rarely.  Otherwise, centuries of experience don't matter.

I think Thor isn't generally portrayed with that level of skill due to his Class 100 strength. He'd dominate other characters in that tier if he were consistently portrayed with anywhere near A-list skill. Hercules and Wonder Woman have a similar problem. When depowered, I'd expect all three to be portrayed as highly skilled fighters, likely not quite at the level of the top A-listers, but close enough to compete.

Also, are we pretending Deathstroke isn't A-list here?

In pure skill? I don't think it's well established that he is A-list in that respect. He's clearly very reliant on his enhanced stats when he fights skilled streets.
ICT / Re: Daredevil vs Aquaman.
« Last post by Dlbiininja on November 23, 2017, 11:54:23 AM »
DD picks up the fish aroma from a mile away.  Prepares some fries to go with the fish he's about to eat.
ICT / Re: Rank the Post JL DCcu relative to the MCU Avengers
« Last post by Snake-eyes on November 23, 2017, 11:19:30 AM »
I usually skip Abhi’s walls of text. Does he normally lie and misrep scenes this much?
Kindly show us where I was lying? And show us where Superman spit blood against Faora and Nam Ek.

Here you go

ICT / Re: Deathstroke vs Fandral The Dashing
« Last post by The Shuruku Demon on November 23, 2017, 11:17:43 AM »
I've done a little more digging to try to figure out how Marvel rates Asgard's best swordfighters (or godly swordsmen in general) relative to Earth's, and here's what I've come up with.

Here, Thor recommends the original Swordsman (Jacques Duquesne) for Avengers membership, and says his expertise with a blade rivals any ever seen in Asgard. Black Panther and Vision need some convincing, so Swordsman obliges by humbling both of them in a sparring match.


The original Swordsman never fought the Black Knight, but the Swordsman of a parallel universe (Philip Javert) did, and lost as a result of periodic dizzy spells he was experiencing, due to being out of synch with the 616 timeline. Before faltering though, this Swordsman was holding his own, and managed to draw first blood.


Here's a fight between the original Swordsman and Valkyrie. Valkyrie admits she doesn't match the Swordsman in skill, but ultimately overpowers him with her strength advantage.


Here's an exchange between the Black Knight and Ares, which Ares wins. Ares has the Ebony Blade here, while Dane is wielding a lance, but Ares claims his advantage is based on the fact that he's a god facing a mortal.


And here's a nice little bit of swordplay from Balder, during Siege.

ICT / Re: Daredevil vs Aquaman.
« Last post by beatboks on November 23, 2017, 10:26:31 AM »
Hey DD has a wim vs Namor so why not
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