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Messages - The Shuruku Demon

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ICT / Re: Human Superman vs Green Goblin
« on: June 21, 2018, 06:44:37 AM »
Topping this, because I'm still waiting to hear Abhi explain how exactly Clark "tricked" Luthor.

ICT / Re: Human Superman vs Green Goblin
« on: June 17, 2018, 07:22:57 AM »
So where did you try to claim I omitted context?

In regard to the red-K story, I didn't say you omitted context. I did say you "left out" something in regard to the other reference you brought up, whereby you suggested that a powerless Clark destroyed a base, when he actually used his powers to do that.


AP: "Any examples of a powerless Superman bringing down a genius with super powers and political pull?"

Abhi: "He infiltrated and destroyed a Kobra base without any prep."

Scans of how Clark actually destroyed the base:

You don't have to be deceptive to be able to trick someone.

How else can you trick someone?

Like Superman tricking Lex with the help of Starman?

Starman wasn't involved in the scene we were talking about (the one where Clark asked Lex how he took away Superman's powers). Are you now referring to the earlier part of the story where Starman used his shapeshifting power to impersonate Superman, fooling Lex into thinking Superman had regained his powers (until Mxyzptlk told Lex who it actually was)?

If so, why should Superman be given credit for that?

ICT / Re: Human Superman vs Green Goblin
« on: June 16, 2018, 02:31:06 PM »
That I said Superman knew about Mxy involvement or tricking Lex would restore his power.

I didn't claim you said either of those things.

That's my quote and Superman absolutely tricked Lex into revealing how he made Superman powerless.

To say he "tricked" Lex suggests he deceived him in some way. Now certainly, he fooled Lex into thinking he was talking to a mild-mannered reporter rather than Superman. But what part of the question itself -- Clark directly asking Lex how he took Superman's power away -- was deceptive?

ICT / Re: Human Superman vs Green Goblin
« on: June 16, 2018, 11:38:40 AM »
I have to say I am absolutely shocked, SHOCKED, that Ahbi & Jellyrobes misrepresented and misconstrued “feats” for Superman. *clutching pearls to my chest*

Whatcha talking about? I never said Superman outsmarted Lex, he tricked Lex with the help of Starman.


Shuruku is a lying piece of shit as always. Superman didn't know about Mxy involvement but his idea was to trick Lex into giving up the secret of his power loss was still his own trick.

What did I lie about?

Marvel Zombies / Re: Monica Rambeau's best name?
« on: June 14, 2018, 11:49:34 AM »
I like the name 'Spectrum' the best, as it's both unique to her and the one that best fits her powers. I never liked calling her Captain Marvel on forums, because I'd always have to clarify who I meant to avoid confusion. Aside from the other Marvel characters with that name, there's also the DC one as well.

ICT / Re: Human Superman vs Green Goblin
« on: June 12, 2018, 05:09:57 PM »
He seems to be having some help from Jimmy Olsen there.  How did he find the base?

He used his powers to do that. Specifically, his energy powers, since he was in his Superman-Blue phase at the time.

When he got near the base, he was zapped by a weapon that left his energy form temporarily disabled, forcing him to switch to his powerless Clark Kent form to make further progress. He then scaled a cliff face in his powerless form, and managed to get past some guards and into the base, as shown in the scans Abhi posted.

What Abhi left out though is that on the very next page after those scans, Superman had regained enough control of his energy powers to use them to overload the electrical systems in the base, which set off a chain reaction that led to the base's destruction. http://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Superman-1987/Annual-9?id=79832#48

So when Abhi suggested that a powerless Clark destroyed the base, that was again rather misleading. This was moreso a good physical showing for a powerless Clark than an impressive mental one.

ICT / Re: Human Superman vs Green Goblin
« on: June 12, 2018, 05:03:49 PM »
Supes is good at the riddles and stuff Mxy throws at him, that's true.  I'm not sure that translates into out-prepping someone like Lex or Osborn.

Definitely not. Unbeknownst to Superman, Mxy created a rock of "red Kryptonite" and gave it to Luthor, promising that it'd make Luthor and Superman physical equals. Mxy outlined one condition to this offer: Luthor must not tell Superman about Mxy's involvement.

Lex used the rock and it instantly rendered Superman powerless. Not only that, but according to Professor Hamilton, Superman's physiology had actually been turned human. As such, he had no idea how to restore Superman's powers.

For a few issues, Superman tried to continue his crime-fighting activities, compensating for his power loss with tech provided by Hamilton.

He also enlisted the aid of Starman, who obtained the red-K rock from Luthor. But Hamilton couldn't work out how the rock had removed Superman's powers, since it was nothing like green-K according to him, and wasn't even radioactive. As such, they were no closer to restoring Superman's powers.

Superman said he couldn't enter his Fortress without his powers.

And he was unable to get past Luthor's security guards when he tried to visit Luthor's office as Clark Kent, because he didn't have an appointment.

By pure chance, Clark happened to be dining out with Lois when she received a call from Luthor, who wanted her to write his autobiography. Clark took the phone and offered Luthor the red-K in exchange for "a story". Luthor told him to bring the rock to LexCorp tower in 20 minutes.

So Clark showed up at Luthor's office with the red-K in a briefcase. Remember that Clark still had no idea Mxy was involved with any of this, or about the rule Mxy had imposed on Luthor. He was just fishing for clues on how exactly Luthor had removed his powers. Since Luthor didn't know Clark was Superman, he went ahead and told him that Mxy had given him the red-K, thus violating the rule and causing Superman to regain his powers.

In conclusion, it's a mite generous to portray this as Superman "tricking" Luthor in a way that might reflect positively on his odds against Gobby. Technically, you could say he tricked Luthor, in the sense that Luthor was fooled by his civilian ID. But Clark didn't go in with a specific plan here, other than to fish for clues. He had no idea he'd be getting Luthor to break Mxy's rule. That was basically a happy accident.

In a way, this story reflects poorly on a powerless Superman's odds against Norman, since it indicates that he'd have no access to the Fortress of Solitude without his powers, no way to get into LexCorp tower without help or an appointment, and no means to tackle super powered opponents without tech or help provided by others.

ICT / Re: Superboy Konner vs Namor
« on: June 11, 2018, 06:58:05 PM »
Namor can be pretty fast in the water, but he's not Superman fast or anything. Kon-El has Kryptonian DNA and has raced Kid Flash pretty evenly, so he shouldn't really have a problem with Namor's speed, especially if he's using HV to weaken Namor, and thus slow him down. Of course, I'm conflating pre-Flashpoint continuity with post-Flashpoint canon now, so forgive me if any of that no longer applies.

ICT / Re: Human Superman vs Green Goblin
« on: June 11, 2018, 06:50:05 PM »
Superman beats evil masterminds with his top-tier (or above top-tier, as I'm sure you'd argue) power set to lean on. Villains who are usually beneath him in innate power, mind you; the reverse of this scenario. We've nothing to go on in terms of whether Superman could counter the prep of someone like Luthor without his powers. And any forward-thinking Superman scribe wouldn't show him to be capable of that without help or luck, because a powerless Supes straight up outprepping Luthor would destroy Luthor's cred as a worthy arch nemesis for standard Supes.

ICT / Re: Superboy Konner vs Namor
« on: June 11, 2018, 01:14:52 PM »
This would be a good fight until heat-vision comes into play. At that point, Namor could retreat into the sea, but he's not immune to being weakened by heat even underwater. On occasion, Superboy has also been known to manipulate water with his TTK, specifically performing a sort of water-based Hadouken attack to BFR King Shark (while both were fighting in the sea), so it's possible that could come into play.

General Comic Discussion / Re: Comicsgate
« on: June 11, 2018, 12:24:09 PM »
Not only that but Peter seems to agree with her, and he's OK with her mocking Uncle Bens last words to him.

Somebody probably spiked that sushi he was munching on. Rape culture, y'know?

ICT / Re: Human Superman vs Green Goblin
« on: June 11, 2018, 12:16:57 PM »
Norman certainly isn't a jobber. He's roughly tied with Doc Ock as Spidey's premiere mastermind villain, and both have been pushed pretty heavily within the last 10-15 years, to the point where they've each operated as Avengers level threats (whilst heading teams) rather than just Spidey level threats. Absorbing Man and Rhino are henchmen for guys like this. Sentry acted as Norman's personal bodyguard.

That said, it's hard to peg how a powerless Superman would fare against an experienced prepper with both having a month to work with. He has been known to prep, but mostly with the aid of his powers, and often receiving assistance from people like Professor Hamilton, Steel or Zatara. There have been occasions where Superman was depowered and made use of Kryptonian exo-suits and things like that, so we can anticipate that much at least. But I can't recall Superman in a scenario where he had to plan weeks ahead for multiple possible contingencies. Another unknown variable is whether or not Kryptonian tech is immune to EMPs, which Norman used to disable Spider-Man's armour quite recently.

General Comic Discussion / Re: Comicsgate
« on: June 10, 2018, 04:46:19 PM »
The purple-haired lass completely missed the point of Ben Parker's quote. Taken in it's proper context, Ben clearly meant that with great power should come great responsibility. He wasn't suggesting that most people have great power, or that those with great power necessarily use it responsibly. We can probably excuse the girl for not knowing the full context of the statement, but she didn't debunk Ben's point, she just strawmanned it.

Marvel Zombies / Re: So wolverine is back
« on: June 08, 2018, 10:15:09 AM »
Well, at least he no longer needs a barbecue or campfire to roast wieners. Might come in handy for his hotdog vending sideline.

ICT / Re: The Rhino vs The Blob
« on: June 08, 2018, 09:28:19 AM »
Their highs are roughly on par, but the Blob has fewer low showings, and is significantly harder to knock out on average. Be interesting to see whether he could withstand the Rhino charging him horn-first without injury though.

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