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Messages - Liam Gallaghers Unibrow

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1
I disagree, its textbook inconsistency.

Mangog not destroying Ult. Mjolnir with a single punch is not inconsistent with him later destroying it with a dedicated two-handed assault aimed at crushing it.

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By what metric does the Destroyer look tougher than War Thor?

I don't measure comics in metrics.

The weight that is given to Mangog's defeat of the Destroyer is analogous to the weight given to the moment that Mangog destroys Ult. Mjolnir, i.e. both being portrayed as much bigger wtf moments than Mangog casually rolling over War Thor.

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Is War Thor tougher than the Destroyer armour? If not, why was he depicted as such?

War Thor was not depicted as tougher than the Destroyer armour. Counting punches is not a valid way to contrast durability, especially when the majority of one fight takes place off-panel.

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Lets transpose your babbling argument into a movie scene - for simple observation purposes.

Batman vs. Superman lets say.

Doomsday spends 20 minutes punching Batman into a bloodied pulp but then later spends 1 minute of screen time to wreck Superman.

Which character in the above scenario appears tougher? Batman or Superman.

That would depend on how much time passes off-screen in the latter.

We see the entire Thor vs Mangog fight, and it is utterly, utterly one-sided, with the outcome never in doubt despite the number of punches landed by Mangog.

We do not see anything like the entirety of the Destroyer vs Mangog fight. The implication from the evidence when the scene cuts back to Destroyer/Mangog is that the fight has, until that point, been more of a contest than the War Thor fight was.

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No it isn't, unless the SAME character within the SAME story also went on to easily dismantle an opponent many magnitudes more powerful/durable with FAR LESS effort.

I don't agree that Mangog expended more effort on War Thor than he did on the Destroyer.

Despite the number of panels and punches on display in the Thor/Mangog fight, at no point did Mangog appear to be troubled. He landed lots of punches, sure, but it was a completely one-sided sustained beat-down, not a back and forth (indeed Thor was shaky-voiced and hurt after the very first punch). The vast majority of Mangog's attacks are landed in a single brutal flurry at the end, which is why I compared it to the Hulk/Abomination fight from IH #459. In that fight it is heavily implied that Hulk lands *hundreds* of unanswered punched on a defenceless Abomination without KO'ing him, but no-one reading that issue would come away with the impression that Hulk expended much effort in owning Blonsky.

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Yes but Jurgen's Mangog was CONSISTENT within that story.

Aaron Mangog seems consistent enough to me. He's tooled everyone, tanked everything and being strong enough to break the Destroyer armour is consistent with the strength displayed when crushing Ult Mjolnir.

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You don't SHOW Mangog to be MORE powerful by having him take FIVE TIMES as long to dispose of a Thor than the previous WEAKEST incarnation of Mangog.

You don't know how long either fight lasted. You're assuming based on your arbitrary way of counting panels.

My own arbitrary assumption is that the off-panel fight between Destroyer and Mangog likely lasted longer and was certainly less one-sided than the fight with War Thor.

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19 attacks is not a casual wrecking, its akin to the same number of attacks Doomsday takes to kill Superman in the Death of Superman storyline.

This is why counting raw attack numbers is a ridiculous way to judge fights.

Doomsday vs Superman was a multi-issue back and forth. Mangog vs War Thor was completely one-sided. At no point did Thor hurt Mangog, whereas every time Mangog hit Thor he messed him up. The vast majority of blows were landed in the final flurry, which left Thor a bleeding gibbering mess (again, see the comparison to Hulk vs Abomination in IH #459, where hundreds of punches are landed without reply without resulting in a KO - one-sided beatdowns do not require small numbers of punches before the knock out).

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Casually wrecking someone is accomplished in a few hits or less.

Like when Hulk casually wrecks various foes in World War Hulk (Thing, Ares)...then the fights get a bit tougher (Hulkbuster Armour, Zom Strange) then finally the big showdown* with Sentry

*Lasting an issue...as did the War Thor 'fight'.   :P

That's a poor analogy though. War Thor vs Mangog was nothing like the Hulk vs Iron Man/Zom/Sentry fights, because Thor never landed any meaningful offence that actually hurt Mangog. There was no back and forth, no doubt about who would win. Mangog walked through his best and fucked him up with ease. It's a sustained beat-down yes, but any interpretation other than it being utterly one-sided is absurd.

Apart from anything else, Mangog isn't even *trying* to knock War Thor out. He's torturing him in order to interrogate the location of the Asgardians out of him. That's why he spends half of the beatdown snapping his arms like twigs rather than punching him on the chin. "You still have a few bones that haven't been broken yet. Tell me." You can't interrogate an unconscious person.


Cheers.

2
Only if you are the type of oddball who judges strength by the amount of punches landed.

It doesn't matter by what metric you judge it on...its INCONSISTENT.

Mangog punched War Thor's hammer at the start of the fight but didn't break it, then casually breaks it later...ITS INCONSISTENT

That's not inconsistent. With sustained effort and two hands anyone could tear apart lots of things that they wouldn't destroy with a single punch.

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Mangog takes 19 attacks* to defeat War Thor then casually defeats the Destroyer armour...ITS INCONSISTENT

It's only inconsistent if you only count on-panel punches as important like you.

Mangog's fight with the Destroyer clearly takes part mostly off-panel. We only see the beginning and the end of the fight.

At any rate, Mangog didn't struggle with War Thor, he completely owned him in a one-sided beatdown.

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While the visual evidence told the exact opposite story.

It didn't though, except to people who think that counting punches is a valid way to measure comic character strength. Mangog has never appeared to be strong enough to tear Mjolnir apart before.

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'Owned' him so badly it took an ENTIRE BOOK to dispose of him, whereas in the past the weakest Mangog (Jurgen's Mangog) has taken a few hits/panels to KO a Thor and the strongest version has taken one hit to KO him.

It took an entire issue of completely one-sided beatdown to dispose of him. It's like arguing that the Hulk vs Abomination from IH #459 was a close fight because it lasted for the entire issue.

Jurgens Mangog was defeated by an attack that this version easily shrugged off.

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Any other conclusion is pure idiocy.

You don't SHOW Mangog to be MORE powerful by having him take FIVE TIMES as long to dispose of a Thor than the previous WEAKEST incarnation of Mangog.

You show Mangog to be more powerful than ever by casually wrecking a Thor stand-in, physically tearing apart a Mjolnir clone and then biting the Destroyer apart.

Aarons Mangog is easily stronger than any version since the Silver Age, and him taking 50 punches to KO War Thor wouldn't have changed that.


Cheers.

3
Jesus, that's an insane showing for Mangog. And some people were claiming it was his weakest portrayal yet based on the number of punches it took to KO War Thor an issue or two ago...

That's because IT WAS his weakest portrayal yet at 19 punches (arguably for a kill).

This whole business simply shows Aaron and Consistency are strange bedfellows.

Only if you are the type of oddball who judges strength by the amount of punches landed.

Mangog casually shattered a Mjolnir stand-in and was flat-out stated to be stronger than ever while utterly owning a Thor substitute more convincingly than he has managed since the Silver Age. You and Abhi were probably the only people that read that issue and decided that he was weaker than ever.


Cheers.

4
Jesus, that's an insane showing for Mangog. And some people were claiming it was his weakest portrayal yet based on the number of punches it took to KO War Thor an issue or two ago...


Cheers.

5
Marvel Zombies / Re: So wolverine is back
« on: January 15, 2018, 03:40:11 PM »
Does OML definitely have an adamantium skeleton? He claimed that Cho had broken his ribs when they fought, and in the original mini he was apparently chewed up in to a swallow-able mush by the Hulk of that timeline.


Cheers.

6
ICT / Re: New comic stuff worth talking about but not worth its own thread
« on: December 20, 2017, 12:01:06 PM »
"It has been far too long since I kissed a Thor"

 :-X


Cheers.

7
ICT / Re: Barracuda vs The Russian
« on: December 09, 2017, 03:57:18 PM »
Barracuda was at best a peer to Frank, he had absurd damage soak but he never came across as being above Frank in a fight, whereas the Russian was clearly way beyond Castle physically. Everything was a bit more grounded in the MAX run than the Knights series too, Frank included, so I think the Russian would win pretty comfortably in anything approaching a straight brawl.


Cheers.

8
ICT / Re: New comic stuff worth talking about but not worth its own thread
« on: December 02, 2017, 08:58:41 PM »
Not sure I've ever seen anyone shit on their own legacy quite as spectacularly as Pak has. Almost have to admire it.


Cheers.

9
Marvel Zombies / Re: Ennis & Parlov new Punisher MAX mini series
« on: November 29, 2017, 11:07:56 AM »
Yeah it's great. Just rams home how far above pretty much everything else out there Ennis' Punisher MAX run was/is which makes me sad knowing this is a limited run deal.


Cheers.

10
ICT / Re: MCU Punisher vs. Hawkeye
« on: November 22, 2017, 05:17:20 PM »
Might wanna ease up on some of the spoilers there, it's only been out like five days and some people might stumble in to this thread without having seen the last couple of episodes.


Cheers.

11
ICT / Re: MCU Punisher vs. Hawkeye
« on: November 22, 2017, 12:31:38 PM »
I maintain that Castle's fights with Daredevil put him in the same range as Hawkeye, in close combat at least (obviously he can't touch Clint's ranged feats). I think the Defenders series raised DD (and Elektra's) stock quite considerably, which by proxy raises Frank's.

On the other hand, in his own series Castle didn't really do anything particularly impressive apart from his absurd damage soak. It was much, much more grounded than the other Netflix series (even DD season 1).


Cheers.

12
Current TV Shows / Re: The Punisher Eps 10-13
« on: November 22, 2017, 12:24:09 PM »
If this show wasn't a Punisher show, and the lead was just a random vigilante, but NOTHING else changed, I think it would get panned.

I think I'd have liked it even more if it was a new character actually. The only bits I didn't really enjoy were because I was predisposed to think that Castle would act in a certain way rather than the way Netflix Castle does.

For the record I thought the music was brilliant throughout the series.


Cheers.

13
Current TV Shows / Re: The Punisher Eps 10-13
« on: November 21, 2017, 10:40:25 AM »
I think the Punisher we get in this series is still early Frank Castle.  He hasn't fully given up his emotions yet, which I think is the right way to go.  As I said in another thread, we can't just start off with cold, emotionally dead Punisher from Garth Ennis.  We can start with the somewhat sympathetic, traumatized war vet we saw in his early Spider-Man and Daredevil appearances, work our way to a the driven man on a mission we saw from Chuck Dixon and other writers form the 80's and 90's, and then come to the Ennis' version who is almost a complete psychopath.  It's similar to people who complained about the violent and unstable Danny Rand in season one of Iron Fist, not remembering that he acted like that in his first few appearances.  Netflix likes their slow burns and so do I.

I agree, and I really, really liked it too for the most part. But people who weren't overly enamoured by the portrayal in Daredevil s2 are going to hate it because if anything he is even more human and emotional here than he was there.

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Why wouldn't he feel an attachment?  Before he went full Punisher, she was the one who had sympathy for him and, in a way, helped him get revenge for his family.  I think for this version of Frank at least, that would mean a lot to him.  In Daredevil, he came off as just a psychopath but softened up once Karen looked into his path and started talking to him about his family.  I think he feels an emotional connection to her.

I'm not saying he shouldn't feel an attachment to her at all. Obviously he would. But it was all a bit... much, wasn't it? The scene with Micro where he loses his shit and compares his relationship with Karen to how Micro feels about his wife and kids? Hmm. The "maybe if things were different..." head touching and moist eyes in the elevator... nah, not having it. He should consider her an ally and someone that he owes a debt too, absolutely. But basically calling her a member of his family and an implied love interest (despite him telling Micro that he has no interest in any other woman) just felt incredibly forced to me.


Cheers.

14
Current TV Shows / Re: The Punisher Eps 10-13
« on: November 20, 2017, 12:03:29 PM »
So on reflection I've decided that it's a genuinely brilliant TV series, but not necessarily a brilliant Punisher TV series. It's a pretty radical re-imagining of the character as we know him in the comics. Which is absolutely fine and made for a really engaging 13 hours or so, but the people who didn't like the level of humanity and emotion that Castle was given in Daredevil are going to hate this series even more.

I do really, really hate how they set up his status quo at the end too. It does actually make perfect sense with his new origin (as I mentioned before, with the conspiracy angle it wouldn't make much sense to start a never-ending war on organised crime so this was the logical consequence of the origin change). But it means we'll have to waste time in the inevitable season 2 setting him up as the Punisher again rather than launching right in to the good stuff. Could really do without that TBH as they covered all that ground at the start of this series. It also sort of undermines the big climactic scene at the end of episode 12 - "I am home" - which is unfortunate as that's the best scene in the whole series I think.

One other thing I hated - the scenes with Karen. Just doesn't make sense that he'd have that level of attachment to her. Doesn't help that I don't like Netflix Karen much at all...


Cheers.

15
Current TV Shows / Re: The Punisher Eps 10-13
« on: November 19, 2017, 02:33:28 PM »
Pretty much hated the ending but loved everything else.

The brutality in the last couple of episodes really escalated and it was glorious.


Cheers.

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