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Messages - Liam Gallaghers Unibrow

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ICT / Re: War Hulk vs World War Hulk
« on: April 19, 2018, 02:28:55 PM »
WWH  < War <<< Worldbreaker IMHO.

That's in raw power terms at least. WWH was a canny fighter and he had been War previously so I wouldn't rule out a Xerxes scenario by any means.

The other possibility is that WWH could "dial up" when the situation called for it. He didn't fight many equal or superior opponents, probably only Zom and Sentry, and I'm both cases rose to meet the challenge (although some would argue they dropped to his level rather than him rising up - based on what came later under Pal there was an implication that WWH represented a held back Hulk so presumably he could, if faced with a suitable challenge, rise to meet it).


I find it hard to believe

The series started in 2008. Can't remember how many issues it ran but it lasted a couple of years at least.

Mad that it's been a decade since World War Hulk. I think that was my favourite time on boards like these, every issue triggered a full on meltdown. People analysing footprints to decide if Hulk stopped Juggernaut or not was a personal favourite.


In the latest Avengers 688 Hercules requires help to move a machine that has the weight of the world. It  was stated that he needed the help of either Thor or Hulk to do the feat. Given that  N52 SM was doing bench-press with the weight of the Earth for 5 days, and old SM moved a machine with the weight of the planet it pretty much ends any discussion on who's stronger.

It's amazing that someone who has posted here as long as you have could still come to conclusions like this based on single isolated feats by different writers.

This issue had it stated straight up that Grandmaster-Prime could not destroy a planet under his own power, yet he easily owned the Hulk, who can and has destroyed planets under different writers. This author clearly is not interested in writing characters who can perform planetary-level feats. That does not mean that the same applies for all writers.

Having said all that... yeah Superman is stronger than Hercules and anyone who disputes that is silly.


ICT / Re: Batman in a 90-year-old body vs. Crossbones (HtH only)
« on: April 06, 2018, 03:30:48 PM »
Crossbones looked a fair way above Punisher in their encounter a few years back IMHO for what it's worth, although it wasn't decisive. In that issue he was depicted as pretty damn strong too, IIRC at one point he throws a knife clean through a jeep, in one side, straight through the engine to disable it, and it's still travelling when it punches through the opposite side of the vehicle.

In fairness Crossbones did lose to Black Widow an issue later if memory serves, but he did get suckered a bit I think and had a claymore go off in his face during the Punisher scuffle shortly beforehand.


General Comic Discussion / Re: Is anybody reading East Of West?
« on: April 02, 2018, 02:23:22 PM »
Yeah it was a proper slog getting through the first volume and I had absolutely no desire to go any further with it thereafter. Some cool moments but at no point did I feel engaged with any of the characters or the setting so it all fell very flat.


ICT / Re: Juggernaut VS Black Bolt
« on: March 31, 2018, 09:40:32 AM »
I could see some writers have the voice drop Juggernaut using the "out" of it being partially sonic-based* and thus bypassing Juggy's durability (see: Juggy vs Nimrod). Otherwise, it's tough to see Black Bolt win, especially given how watered down he has been in his physicals in recent times.


*I'm aware it wasn't originally supposed to be a sonic-based attack at all before anyone points that out, but it's been portrayed that way too often to ignore.

I’m sure that’s true but it is a bit different. Even if Rulk was 50% Hulk that would’ve boosted Hulk to about 150 his normal levels. Add into the fact that he was very posed to begin with and it’s hard to say how much power Rogue actually siphoned off. You also don’t have to be stronger than two people to toss them off, these scenes are pretty frequent in comics. All in all it’s a good showing but there are certainly caveats

I don't think Rulk was anything like 50% Hulk based on their fight and the dialogue surrounding it. Rogue has flat KO'd the savage Hulk by draining his power before and here she clearly put a dent in as she got through to Banner at least for a moment. I don't think it is necessarily a logical deduction that this Red Hulk added more to Hulk's power than Rogue would have taken away from it.

I don't think the writer could have done too much more to make it clear that he considered Hulk to be a lot stronger than Thor and Herc. He has them decide that they need to attack simultaneously to stop him. Then they do attack simultaneously and Hulk still literally shrugs them off. I don't think there's that much in the way of caveats at all personally.


What’s not being mentioned here is that Hulk just absorbed the gamma energy of Red Hulk likely making him much stronger than usual

This Red Hulk is nowhere near the Ross Rulk (he actually used Iron Man armour to make him remotely competitive against Hulk and it was explicitly stated that he wasn't at the original Red Hulk's level (and also stated that Ross's Rulk on his best day couldn't match the Hulk which is obviously debatable)).

At any rate, Hulk was drained by Rogue to the point that she was basically overloaded seconds before overpowering Herc and Thor.


Hulk vs Avengers.

Quote from: 16559534
Originally posted by Galan007


Hulk literally shrugged off Hercules and Jane Thor together.

Strongest One There Is.


I disagree, its textbook inconsistency.

Mangog not destroying Ult. Mjolnir with a single punch is not inconsistent with him later destroying it with a dedicated two-handed assault aimed at crushing it.

By what metric does the Destroyer look tougher than War Thor?

I don't measure comics in metrics.

The weight that is given to Mangog's defeat of the Destroyer is analogous to the weight given to the moment that Mangog destroys Ult. Mjolnir, i.e. both being portrayed as much bigger wtf moments than Mangog casually rolling over War Thor.

Is War Thor tougher than the Destroyer armour? If not, why was he depicted as such?

War Thor was not depicted as tougher than the Destroyer armour. Counting punches is not a valid way to contrast durability, especially when the majority of one fight takes place off-panel.

Lets transpose your babbling argument into a movie scene - for simple observation purposes.

Batman vs. Superman lets say.

Doomsday spends 20 minutes punching Batman into a bloodied pulp but then later spends 1 minute of screen time to wreck Superman.

Which character in the above scenario appears tougher? Batman or Superman.

That would depend on how much time passes off-screen in the latter.

We see the entire Thor vs Mangog fight, and it is utterly, utterly one-sided, with the outcome never in doubt despite the number of punches landed by Mangog.

We do not see anything like the entirety of the Destroyer vs Mangog fight. The implication from the evidence when the scene cuts back to Destroyer/Mangog is that the fight has, until that point, been more of a contest than the War Thor fight was.

No it isn't, unless the SAME character within the SAME story also went on to easily dismantle an opponent many magnitudes more powerful/durable with FAR LESS effort.

I don't agree that Mangog expended more effort on War Thor than he did on the Destroyer.

Despite the number of panels and punches on display in the Thor/Mangog fight, at no point did Mangog appear to be troubled. He landed lots of punches, sure, but it was a completely one-sided sustained beat-down, not a back and forth (indeed Thor was shaky-voiced and hurt after the very first punch). The vast majority of Mangog's attacks are landed in a single brutal flurry at the end, which is why I compared it to the Hulk/Abomination fight from IH #459. In that fight it is heavily implied that Hulk lands *hundreds* of unanswered punched on a defenceless Abomination without KO'ing him, but no-one reading that issue would come away with the impression that Hulk expended much effort in owning Blonsky.

Yes but Jurgen's Mangog was CONSISTENT within that story.

Aaron Mangog seems consistent enough to me. He's tooled everyone, tanked everything and being strong enough to break the Destroyer armour is consistent with the strength displayed when crushing Ult Mjolnir.

You don't SHOW Mangog to be MORE powerful by having him take FIVE TIMES as long to dispose of a Thor than the previous WEAKEST incarnation of Mangog.

You don't know how long either fight lasted. You're assuming based on your arbitrary way of counting panels.

My own arbitrary assumption is that the off-panel fight between Destroyer and Mangog likely lasted longer and was certainly less one-sided than the fight with War Thor.

19 attacks is not a casual wrecking, its akin to the same number of attacks Doomsday takes to kill Superman in the Death of Superman storyline.

This is why counting raw attack numbers is a ridiculous way to judge fights.

Doomsday vs Superman was a multi-issue back and forth. Mangog vs War Thor was completely one-sided. At no point did Thor hurt Mangog, whereas every time Mangog hit Thor he messed him up. The vast majority of blows were landed in the final flurry, which left Thor a bleeding gibbering mess (again, see the comparison to Hulk vs Abomination in IH #459, where hundreds of punches are landed without reply without resulting in a KO - one-sided beatdowns do not require small numbers of punches before the knock out).

Casually wrecking someone is accomplished in a few hits or less.

Like when Hulk casually wrecks various foes in World War Hulk (Thing, Ares)...then the fights get a bit tougher (Hulkbuster Armour, Zom Strange) then finally the big showdown* with Sentry

*Lasting an issue...as did the War Thor 'fight'.   :P

That's a poor analogy though. War Thor vs Mangog was nothing like the Hulk vs Iron Man/Zom/Sentry fights, because Thor never landed any meaningful offence that actually hurt Mangog. There was no back and forth, no doubt about who would win. Mangog walked through his best and fucked him up with ease. It's a sustained beat-down yes, but any interpretation other than it being utterly one-sided is absurd.

Apart from anything else, Mangog isn't even *trying* to knock War Thor out. He's torturing him in order to interrogate the location of the Asgardians out of him. That's why he spends half of the beatdown snapping his arms like twigs rather than punching him on the chin. "You still have a few bones that haven't been broken yet. Tell me." You can't interrogate an unconscious person.


Only if you are the type of oddball who judges strength by the amount of punches landed.

It doesn't matter by what metric you judge it on...its INCONSISTENT.

Mangog punched War Thor's hammer at the start of the fight but didn't break it, then casually breaks it later...ITS INCONSISTENT

That's not inconsistent. With sustained effort and two hands anyone could tear apart lots of things that they wouldn't destroy with a single punch.

Mangog takes 19 attacks* to defeat War Thor then casually defeats the Destroyer armour...ITS INCONSISTENT

It's only inconsistent if you only count on-panel punches as important like you.

Mangog's fight with the Destroyer clearly takes part mostly off-panel. We only see the beginning and the end of the fight.

At any rate, Mangog didn't struggle with War Thor, he completely owned him in a one-sided beatdown.

While the visual evidence told the exact opposite story.

It didn't though, except to people who think that counting punches is a valid way to measure comic character strength. Mangog has never appeared to be strong enough to tear Mjolnir apart before.


'Owned' him so badly it took an ENTIRE BOOK to dispose of him, whereas in the past the weakest Mangog (Jurgen's Mangog) has taken a few hits/panels to KO a Thor and the strongest version has taken one hit to KO him.

It took an entire issue of completely one-sided beatdown to dispose of him. It's like arguing that the Hulk vs Abomination from IH #459 was a close fight because it lasted for the entire issue.

Jurgens Mangog was defeated by an attack that this version easily shrugged off.

Any other conclusion is pure idiocy.

You don't SHOW Mangog to be MORE powerful by having him take FIVE TIMES as long to dispose of a Thor than the previous WEAKEST incarnation of Mangog.

You show Mangog to be more powerful than ever by casually wrecking a Thor stand-in, physically tearing apart a Mjolnir clone and then biting the Destroyer apart.

Aarons Mangog is easily stronger than any version since the Silver Age, and him taking 50 punches to KO War Thor wouldn't have changed that.


Jesus, that's an insane showing for Mangog. And some people were claiming it was his weakest portrayal yet based on the number of punches it took to KO War Thor an issue or two ago...

That's because IT WAS his weakest portrayal yet at 19 punches (arguably for a kill).

This whole business simply shows Aaron and Consistency are strange bedfellows.

Only if you are the type of oddball who judges strength by the amount of punches landed.

Mangog casually shattered a Mjolnir stand-in and was flat-out stated to be stronger than ever while utterly owning a Thor substitute more convincingly than he has managed since the Silver Age. You and Abhi were probably the only people that read that issue and decided that he was weaker than ever.


Jesus, that's an insane showing for Mangog. And some people were claiming it was his weakest portrayal yet based on the number of punches it took to KO War Thor an issue or two ago...


Marvel Zombies / Re: So wolverine is back
« on: January 15, 2018, 03:40:11 PM »
Does OML definitely have an adamantium skeleton? He claimed that Cho had broken his ribs when they fought, and in the original mini he was apparently chewed up in to a swallow-able mush by the Hulk of that timeline.


ICT / Re: New comic stuff worth talking about but not worth its own thread
« on: December 20, 2017, 12:01:06 PM »
"It has been far too long since I kissed a Thor"



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