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Messages - scourge

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ICT / Re: Spiderman vs Colossus
« on: October 18, 2017, 05:27:41 PM »
There's also demonstrated undeniable incredible physical talents on display with the Titania scan though. Yeah he can manipulate, yeah that's how he bested a mentally unstable much more powerful Colossus the last time they fought, but it's the physical stuff he's doing that's so impressive. Controlling the fight from beginning to end. Now that's not going to get to Colossus unless he sometimes struggles with his self worth but

Oh yeah he does!

And sure Colossus is more confident now then he was back then but it doesn't mean he's going to be any better at laying hands on Spidey than Titania was. At the end of the day, that's what you're all ignoring while simultaneously acting like he's closer to a classic Juggernaut or Hercules than he is to a Rhino and Titania. Just not the case.

ICT / Re: Spiderman vs Colossus
« on: October 18, 2017, 03:27:55 PM »
The thing is there are so many of them. Spider-mans treatment of Titania for example, a relative peer of less extreme She Hulk portrayals. A statement that could be made of Colossus. Granted, she like Rhino, isn't usually a match for Colossus, but both are certainly in the same ball park.

Not to go too heavy on Secret Wars scans but that fight is so relevant to this one. And as Spidey says there, as long as he has room to work, someone like Colossus shouldn't be able to lay a finger on him.

ICT / Re: Spiderman vs Colossus
« on: October 18, 2017, 02:33:12 PM »
And this is the first thread where I'm like "How the fuck is Colossus going to win?" To which admittedly no one has provided any real answer to. But whatever, glad to see Colossus getting general support, even if it's wildly misplaced.

ICT / Re: Spiderman vs Colossus
« on: October 18, 2017, 12:56:33 PM »
Sure, and SM has done the same to Firelord, but I don't see it happening here. I think being a metalic man actually gives Spider-Man a lot to work with. I think the durability is great, but one doesn't need to pierce the armor to immobilize. And lets also not pretend that Colossus doesn't have some pretty piss poor durability moments as well. Not a whole lot of armor piercing, but to KO him probably doesn't take much more than it takes to KO Rhino. Immobilize, KO, I could see SM finding a way to do either, but see my long post above for more on that where I offer a couple ideas up.

ICT / Re: Spiderman vs Colossus
« on: October 18, 2017, 12:45:53 PM »
The MM thing I think there was something to the effect of him not being able to web him and that being a major issue, but Shuruku can answer all such questions when he shows. MM also had the ability to project his heat IIRC.

And I don't think there's a whole hell of a lot of difference between Rhino's weight class and Colossus' for the record.

Rhino's what, CL 70-80?

What's Colossus, CL 90?

ICT / Re: Spiderman vs Colossus
« on: October 18, 2017, 12:05:20 PM »
Question is, how does Colossus get more than 1 out of 10? Yeah, he may fight smarter than Rhino, and that's why he does better than Rhino, but he's not a genius. Not close to one. He's probably one of the few X-Men that hasn't been made out to be one in one way or another. And Colossus does rage out. He rages out big time! He has two modes. Soul of an artist, or I am made of rage

But yeah, Colossus will no doubt fight smarter than Juggernaut or Rhino, he's still not fighting as smart as Spidey. And given the fact that Spidey would have to play it very dumb or Colossus uncharactersitcally smart to get Spidey to walk into his fist, I don't see it happening. Meanwhile webbing AND/OR environmental factors AND/OR science know-how can most certainly do their job on Colossus. It's how he beats Rhino every time. How he beats Sandman every time. It's how he beat Juggernaut. It's how he beat Hulk. It's how he beat Morlun. Yeah Colossus will be impervious to everything, Spidey will have to think on his toes, come up with something clever, but for Spider-Man that's just Tuesday. Maybe if Colossus could fly. If he was a tier up in strength, a little smarter, I'd be with you. But Colossus doesn't bring anything to the table that Spider-man hasn't dealt with and more 100 times over. Meanwhile the reverse is most certainly not true.

ICT / Re: Spiderman vs Colossus
« on: October 18, 2017, 11:38:26 AM »
I've already referenced one that had Spidey beating Colossus. A Phoenix Force powered Colossus to boot. Highly circumstantial though it was, that was a more powerful version of Colossus than in this fight. Now that's not to say that that particular strategy will work in this case, in fact it most certainly will not, but you cannot say that all the fights they've had in comics have Colossus winning or Spidey swinging off, as Spidey defeated him even if he never had to make physical contact be it with webs or otherwise.

And let's be honest, as heated in the seated as people get about the one where Spidey had to "swing off" Colossus was 100% ineffectual... and backed by a team of his closest allies. So there's no particular Colossus > Spidey mandate at Marvel.

ICT / Re: Spiderman vs Colossus
« on: October 18, 2017, 08:38:52 AM »
gais, seriously.

This is not a slugfest. I was kidding when I said that.

But yes, add Molten Man to the list of people similar to Colossus/with more going on in a fight than Colossus, that Spidey has beaten. Or Sandman. Or whoever, if somehow Morlon, Juggenaut, Hulk, and Iron Man were not enough. (Personally I think Rhino is plenty for this current thought train some people are stuck on.) Spidey isn't punching his way to victory over anyone listed in this thread that he's beaten.

If all Spider-man ever did was punch his way through his opponents he'd beat like two of his common rogues.

ICT / Re: Spiderman vs Colossus
« on: October 18, 2017, 07:38:33 AM »

ICT / Re: Rank Spider-Man's Rogues
« on: October 17, 2017, 11:42:49 PM »
That's fair--I can't imagine them doing a good movie about Venom, certainly not anything that rivals Truth in Journalism.

ICT / Re: Rank Spider-Man's Rogues
« on: October 17, 2017, 11:28:10 PM »
It would then be just a random monster movie.  Venom only works if there‚Äôs a Spider-Man.



ICT / Re: Daniel Larusso VS Clubber Lang
« on: October 17, 2017, 04:11:10 PM »
This seems like it would be a very brutal and disturbing mauling. The Kid has no business in this fight... What about Mr.Miyagi?

ICT / Re: Batman vs Superman
« on: October 17, 2017, 03:55:07 PM »
Think there're more impressive ways Superman has used prep like against The Elite. Superman playing it smart is so much more dangerous IMO. He has easy access to tech beyond Batman's and an incredible science acumen that rivals Batman's own. Batman however is the better tactical mind, will if possible see what Superman might try and out maneuver him, be it a raw power play from Supes or a more savvy one. Superman knows Batman pretty damn well, yet always seems understandably over confident when they do clash and I think he would be here and Batman would be all kinds of shrewd using JLA dismantling protocols which he probably has two dozen of for Superman alone. It's only a month of prep to innact it but Batman has spent years playing this fight out. I think that gives him the edge here, that puts me on Batman's side of the fence, but only ever so slightly as I can easily see how Superman can win too. Very curious to see cases for both. I'm definely swayable here. I like this match up and think there's a lot of good stuff to consider.

ICT / Re: Spiderman vs Colossus
« on: October 17, 2017, 01:17:34 PM »
Oh cool. By "he" I meant Colossus. I could again explain why that would be relevant (don't see how talking about Spidey vs. NC is at all, but simple misunderstanding) but it's all in there and I strongly suspect any elaboration I make here would side track the more relevant matters.

ICT / Re: Spiderman vs Colossus
« on: October 17, 2017, 09:06:58 AM »
There were words, and not just pictures, so if all you got from that post was that I thought the X-Men/Spider-man fight from Secret Wars was the reason Spider-Man would win, you missed the point. It was that even if webbing doesn't end the fight, it can still be incredibly effective in controlling it. I guess I could have put a scan of Spider-man webbing up some other bricks face, but why not use Colossus? As to the Iron Man one, agreed it's not par for the course, but see below.

And now my own nerdly rage response to your own nerd rages:

What was Spider-man going to do to Rhino, Hulk, Juggernaut, Morlon, Iron Man, etc. it's kind of his schtick. Now granted those wins are all circumstantial, Spidey pulled something out of his ass every time, but with the exception of Rhino, everyone listed brings a lot more to the table in just raw power or having other advantages. Spider-man would never straight up over power Colossus, but to ask what Spider-man could ever do to Colossus is to ignore Spider-man's wins over similar and in most cases much more impressive bricks.

There's a whole comic that is basically this thread. Two guys are arguing in a bar. One guy is saying Spider-man could never in a million years beat Hulk (a character I normally wouldn't give Spidey the win over, but there's a big difference between Hulk and Colossus), and then Spidey beats Hulk off panel. Now you can dismiss that if you want and the other wins as well (Iron Man being a low showing, but Colossus is no Iron Man in many other ways) but the pattern of these wins points to one conclusion: Spider-man is a giant slayer, and has demonstrated that on some of the most impressive giants in Marvel. It's never a head on win, or a direct over powering that you easily see coming, and that's kind of the point. He has these wins on guys that he should have nothing on, and Colossus is lucky to be counted among them as everyone he's been compared to in one way or another in this thread with the exception of Rhino is way above him in what they bring to a fight, and Rhino is not that far below Colossus. Is there a lot of established demonstrations of Colossus tagging faster opponents? There are plenty around in the X-Corner of Marvel, but maybe cite something if it exists? Has he ever gone up against Nightcrawler? Maybe when he was an acolyte? Or are you just so certain of your correct point of view that you've come in here to say "preposterous" and then leave. BC that was my original post, but seeing this reaction seems to necessitate that I explain why, you know drawing from the comics as we do here rather than just saying "but how could he ever beat Colossus? Colossus who is much stronger!"

So you ask how Spidey will win? He'll trap Colossus, he'll trap him with the environment, or trap him with webbing perhaps, or lead him somewhere that allows for some sort of sciency reaction (even one of those magnets that lifts garbage in a dump is an example, a very stupid and limited example, of a sciency/trappy sort of win, though I'm sure there are much better if you have a little more imagination/time), or get him to do something stupid that makes him defeat himself (as he did to a Colossus of a very different mind set who had the Phoenix force), the point is there's not one way Spider-man(SM) will win, but with his much greater mobility, speed and reaction time, not to mention intelligence, he'll control the fight to a much greater degree until the opportunity presents itself. Colossus' best bet is that he gets lucky and hits SM harder than say Morlun enough times to drop him, so not a glancing blow, or one that SM rolls with, or that SM suddenly becomes an idiot that thinks he can go toe to toe with Colossus, or that Colossus starts maybe doing thunderclaps? IDFK, I know it's possible for Colossus to win ,but it's highly unlikely. Unless this is somehow a slugfest or steel cage match and I missed it. Colossus is one of those bricks that's deceptively fast, but he's not close to SM fast. He's deceptively durable, but could he shake of a 100 story drop? I mean there are ways of putting him down is the overarching point of this paragraph.

You talk about this place dying, and it probably is, but it's not because of this thread. Your nerd rage, and admittedly my own at what I perceive as your own limited insight into this match up is the life blood of this place. People getting heated that someone does not share their view on something incredibly stupid is what makes herochat turn.

And if there was somehow a way to bet in this fight as in that one Spider-Man Hulk fight comic? I would gladly take all of your moneys.

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