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Messages - Upper_Krust

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General Comic Discussion / Re: Comicsgate
« on: October 24, 2018, 07:05:38 PM »
So basicly your admiting it nothing to the Shera thing. But arguing well If you put all these connection together..it makes it agenda. Yea if you LOOK for it. And an exagerate it. And thier confirmation bias. Since their going in assuming it a feminis Agenda..when it very little to show. it like people obssessed with the Number 23. Sure they can get a long list of connection.

The She-Ra example is miniscule. The Star Wars or Star Trek examples are far more pronounced.

Or take Marvel. You yourself Said marvel hasnt been SJW.

Marvel movies just to be clear.

Marvel comics are often SJW.

Even though you included in your list of examples. So far you havent argued there anything in the trailer that really SJW.

Other than her masculine jawline I think the She-Ra trailer is fantastic.

But because of a some comments the actress made..your arguing not just Captain Marvel will be a SJW anti man thing...but the whole Disney Marvel francise going to. And really that seem like a stretch. And  when people do that..they go into the movie looking for it. Which creates confirmation bias.

Not exactly, so let me clarify my points.

Captain Marvel may well be a very good movie and not SJW at all (unlikely...but possible). I'm simply not going to pay to see it because of the public comments made by Brie Larson.

As regards Marvel movies, I can all too easily see it going full SJW in this next phase. I hope I am wrong.

I can see them doing a New Avengers movie with:

Captain Marvel
Black Panther
Doctor Strange
+ She-Hulk
+ Spider-man
+ Ant-man
+ The Wasp

I think the above would be cool but we might end up getting an A-Force movie instead with side helpings of Fem-Thor, RiRi and Ms. Marvel.

PG13 is not just about chicks. It about younger people. They make more money that way. A father will take his son or family to see a PG13 marvel movie more often then they will go to see Logan or Deadpool. And by deadpool actully does pretty well with female audiences.

I agree. But my point (which still stands) is that visceral action violence is a turn off for female viewers - one of the reasons the 'cartoonish' Superhero violence has basically taken over the action genre because of its wider appeal. Even the F&F movies have degenerated into quasi-superhero unrealistic action.

So does a lot of horror movies. Its a money thing. Disney doesnt want to make just some of the money..they want to make all the money. And in a time where the movies so expensive where a 600 million dollar movie can still be a failure..you want most of the money. And past movies werent as Blood soaked as people think. We had more R rated movies. But that because we didnt have a PG13. Which made PG movie more intense and R rated movies less extreme.

I think movies that were an 18 in the past are probably not considered an 18 today.

Halloween didnt have a lot of gore during the first movie. Even Texas Chainswa masscare..which had both the word Chainsaw and Massacre actully wasnt nearly as gory as people imagine. It was applied. The first Rambo vs the 4th tottaly different movies when it comes to gore.  Even the later Rambo movies before 4. They killed a lot in movie but it wasnt this Geyser of blood from four. Not ever movie was a the wild bunch. When they talking about man movies used to be bloody and manly. They basicly talking about the 80's and kind of ignoring a lot of action cinema.


Well if the decline of the national hero is the international box office. That not really a liberal Sjw thing. That again a money thing. If.

Its a bit of both, but money will always lead the way.

As for Atomic blond being a guy wouldnt change thing. Not sure about that. But even if that was true. The book its base on it was a female character. It be more force if they made her a guy.  If the actress want her to do action movie..why shouldnt she seek out one if they give her one.

I'm all for female lead action movies, however, I think if you have a female lead in an action movie then they need to be EXTRA convincing (especially when pitted against men) than male action leads.

For a male action star they simply need to be able to convincingly portray someone who can physically handle themselves - either in terms of martial arts skill or being in great shape (or simply really big), or some combination of both.

In the Iron Fist tv show, the lead actor is a total wuss who can neither convince as a fighter nor convince as an action star.

As for realtionship stuff. That been part of story telling..the main character having a love interest for decades. Reather your male or Female. Even the most maniliest of movies Total recall had a realtionship. Same with James Bond from Russia with Love.

My point is that one of the common traits of SJW heroine's is the absence of heterosexual romance.

Yes A female beating up multiple guys may be silly. So is a guy didnt it..but people dont seem to lose thier shit over that. Action movies can be silly male or female. Character rarely get fatigure fighting, The bad guys cant shoot, A hero has infinet bullet and can take all sorts of flesh wounds.  Punisher and Jack Baurer basicly has superhero healing factor. The rock is pretty much the thing in the fast and furious. It weird to draw the line on a chick who suspose to know some crazy out thier kung beating up a guy

I think as long as either the actress or character are convincing and not Mary Sue's that goes a long way to making them a convincing action heroine.

I thought Charlize Theron was just about convincing enough (she's quite statuesque for a female).

Gina Carano is very convincing as is Rhonda Rousey as was Cynthia Rothrock. All legit fighters.

Uma Thurman's character went through extensive training scenes. Scarlet Johansson is convincing as Black Widow (or at least the stunt woman doing all the snazzy takedowns is).

It basicly saying

"Wow I was enjoying the movie where the talking racoon and Sassy tree man was fighting that giant purple dildo man...who can snapped all of existence away with his finger. But then a woman beat up a few men and that totally took me out of it"

So far the MCU has been generally brilliant.

DC Drones / Re: Do you find Superman boring or interesting?
« on: October 24, 2018, 11:23:41 AM »
Aspirational Heroes (like Superman) are more difficult to write.

Interesting and relevant video here about the two primary hero types and why some people don't understand the point of the Aspirational Hero and many writers try to deconstruct them.


I think the reason All Star Superman works so well is that it plays up the Aspirational Hero role of Superman.

General Comic Discussion / Re: Comicsgate
« on: October 24, 2018, 11:04:03 AM »
Ok how. We both saw the trailer now. How is this a brick to a feminist wall. All the designs are very cute and girls will love it. Thier all wearing pretty clothing. And Shera has beutifull flowing hair.  It a show for pre teens girls. Going to sale tons of toys and accessories that come with the toys. That is the Agenda. Remember so far we only saw the trailer.  A trailer you yourself said looks entertaining. And builds up a nice rivalry between thier girls. So it not like they just going after men. An anti femniity. This show looks girly as shirt. It like a unicorn and rainbow fucked each other and it produce this.

The trailer looks very good (IMO). However, there is no denying She-Ra has a ridiculously manly jawline whereas before she looked feminine.

My point is that individually such a thing is almost irrelevant. But if you repeat it a thousand times it has an impact.

If your not watching it how can you tell then.

I read the quotes from the writers/producers. ST:D was pushed as SJW - that's enough for me to give it a wide berth.

Captain Marvel could be a cool movie but Brie Larson has pushed her SJW opinions in the media enough to turn me off paying to see it.

Do you think Daredevil is a SJW show now.

I don't know. I still plan on watching it because I enjoyed the first two series. If it has turned SJW I won't be back for a series 4.

Because that what youtube commenters like these are saying. So far from the four episode I seen I dont get it.

I haven't watched any of those videos primarily because I don't want any spoilers but also I have been really busy these past few weeks.

What so Left about marvel. Their main guy Iron man..is at the most libertarian. he a gun manufactuer..where the plot of iron man 2 is he didnt want the goverment to decided what weapons he had. It a captalist...super hero

Agreed. I don't think the Marvel movies have went SJW yet. However, my fear is the MCU is about to go full SJW once Captain Marvel drops.

also depends if you consider just having a female lead in an action movie makes it right win. For instance..Peppermint has the same political leaning of Death. white person loses thier family..kills a bunch of brown people to make up for it. Only think different is a main character have tits. Atomic blond basicly Just John Wick..and she not a mary sue since she gets FUCKED up a lot. More damage happen to her then most  action heroes and it politcally leaning is not very left wing. Other then guess she fucks girls. But that more for a men to then anything

Atomic Blonde was the first movie I took my current gf to see. It was enjoyable enough and I didn't think the main character was a Mary Sue. While there is an inherent nonsense to a woman beating up men it was reasonably well executed. I remember someone making the point that nothing in the movie would have changed if they had made the lead character a man.

Is there anything in the pass 20 years with a female action hero you dont think Left wing

Wonder Woman, Kill Bill, original two Tomb Raider movies, various Resident Evil movies (the good ones).

say 20 years because that before The culture war shit. Where you can have CYNTHIA rothrock..little tomboyish girl beating up multiple guys and people could see it as a goofy action movie and not them trying to cuck men. Because I grew up in the same era you have.

I loved Cynthia Rothrock and while its stretching things to have her beat up gangs of men (in much the same way as its stretching things to have any man beat up gangs of men) she was entertaining and feminine in a time when female action stars were a novelty as opposed to mandatory.

I saw
Your charlie Angels, Barb wire, VIP, Xena, BBC Avengers. Dark Angel, Buffy

To your old blackexplotation flicks-  Coffie, Foxy Brown

Leather Weapon could have a butt kicking woman who meets rigs without people losing their shit

Lol - Leather Weapon is the porn parody version of Lethal Weapon I take it...? :p

I think the major traits of SJW influence are:

1. Masculinity (in women) promoted, with any feminity/attractiveness (of the actress) downplayed
2. Mary Sue character
3. Relationships (with men at least) not required

...probably also feature a heavy dose of Emotional Validation

And two what I consider an ra ra American Action hero that out now. Well not not All pro America heroes have to be right. Captain American always American is awesome but sometime he on the left and sometimes he on the right.  Nor is Say Arnold character always talking up America but he fits the veins of most testerone action stars. But I will pick out pro American starts that are really lefty. And you would have a hard time saying thier on the liberl side

I think you touch on one of the key issues right now which is the idea of the Nationalist hero. I think flag-waving is taboo to those pushing a globalist agenda hence we really don't see it from modern action stars and action movies. London Has Fallen is the last I can really think of although I haven't got to see 12 Strong yet. Another element of the decline of Nationalistic heroes is presumably the growing importance of the International Box Office.


First off all the movies we mention.  Not going to include direct to videos movies I seen like the marines movies...because that just seem like list padding


Mark Wallberg plays a lot of time- Mile 22 is an Example

Trailer looked good but got really bad reviews.

So does The Rock- GI Joe, His Hobbs character

The Rock is an interesting case study. Given he is considering running for political office (as a Democrat) we can get an idea of his politics. To me it seems the Rock steers clear of serious gun-toting soldier roles - but that is probably because PG-13 rated action movies generally do considerably better at the box office, so its just a smart business decision.

Then it all the war action films like  88 hours, 12 strong, Zero Dark 20, Hacksaw Ridge

12 Strong I really want to see. Don't know what 88 hours is? Do you mean Zero-dark Thirty...I'm a bit skeptical of that 'based on true events' movie and its reason for existing; while Hacksaw Ridge (seems an interesting story but hardly a gung-ho action flick).

Superman I consider pretty pro America.

"Truth, Justice and...all that other stuff" Singerman 2006

Wont say Wonder Woman because having figure out your stance if you think having a movie with a female action star possible to not be lefits propaganda.

Wonder Woman was a great movie. Feminine, Attractive, not a Mary Sue, relationship with Steve Trevor.

Also why Haywire not on the list

Haywire, another great action movie with an especially believable female lead.

Nicky Fury


Captain America - Depends how you view the anti registration act..as right wing control. Or liberla overeach, But he still pretty FUCK yea America


Tom Cruise From mission impossible tends to America is awsome

Can't really go along with that given the villains of this series.

Most of the  Michale bay- He loves himself some Army

He does love a military showcase.

TV Action Heros

Blue Bloods
Magnum PI
Valor on CW
Hawai 50

All this I am sticking to mostly shit I saw. Havent seen FBI. Also made stuff I know still on air. So no Jag, or 24, or Walker, or cinimax strike back If I expanded to just conservative... The list might to be longer on both movies and TV. Since would included Justified maybe...But Rayland is ra ra America..he just a likes shooting people.  And daredevil consertivatve and relegion comes out good from the 5 episode I saw.  So punish not in there either.

Now even under those multiple critera...I was able to find stuff off the top of my head without using google. Since again saw those. only missing the last 2 season of longmire

Could be interested in checking out SWAT and Longmire from that list.

Which make me think lot of these blogger who make these complaints dont watch much TV. They may just look for stuff to get pissed

I think there is certainly always going to be some measure of exaggeration among those with a vested interest in viewcounts.

Thinking more about the business as a whole, I'd say:

1. Nationalistic heroes are far less common today - partially because of the political climate and part because of the importance of the international box office
2. PG-13 action movies are far more common today - because they generally make more money and also women are turned off by excessive violence (the kind you would see in 15 and 18 rated movies)
3. Female (action) leads are far more common today - partially to bring in more of a female audience* and part because of the political climate.

Would you agree/disagree with the above?

* I still don't believe the vast majority of women are interested in (standard) action movies

General Comic Discussion / Re: Comicsgate
« on: October 21, 2018, 02:21:50 PM »
Well it not like Rodenbarry wasnt above Virtue singaling of it own. It just wasnt a name for it yet. It was a VERY left wing show..and some of the points hit you over the head. The episode with the half black half white thing was a bit under nose.  Or the episode..where they were saying you got to cut this cold war shit out.  Or the first interraical kiss. Or episode where Sisko talked about Racism or all the evilness of Humanity stuff

I agree, however, I think what was considered Left Wing decades ago and what is considered Left Wing today are two different things.

Now that you saw the Trailer of Shera..kind of show maybe freaking out over a Still...saying its a liberal agenda..to take away femnity...maybe him over reacting and trying get clicks. Has he change his stance now that the trailer came out

There are three elements to this:

1. Was the She-Ra thing exaggerated by Youtubers - 100% yes.
2. Does even her manly jawline amount to anything - not really.
3. But is it another brick in the Feminist wall that is anti-attractiveness/feminity - yes it is

If you watch discovery..Michale has some femine moments. Their is a romance she involved in with the male character. She also still pretty attractive. And has a pretty girly friend

I always liked the actress from the Walking Dead. but I won't be watching STD because it was sold on a premise of hatred and identity politics.

I'll be fine with the Orville.

Also action heroes still pretty ra ra America.  You got all the bruckhemier movies, mile 22,  all the millitarty action movies, Jack Rya. All the action shows on TV. Eli Roth death Wish

I'd be interested to hear who you think are the modern (Pro-American) action stars?

Here how it breaks down

sci Fi- Tends to be Liberal

Action- Tends to be right wing.  You need a rouge cop that play by his own rules..because those Damm pencil pushers wont let him DO THE DAMM JOB

Zombies- Everyone Terrible

Now differce is most people accept action movie being that way. Party because a scene where a cop goes

"The cartell...is in that church right now. Only one thing to do (pulls out gun) WAIT FOR BACK UP.
And then calmly negotiate for hours so it will be no violence

"Ok Got you Cortez leader of the Cartel. You going to Answer my Questin"

Corze- Lawyer

"All right can talk to you now. But be Warn..where going through a long..boring legal process. But then you going down. Of course their WILL be appeal...oh yea mother fucker their will be appeals"

I agree with you action movies/shows are historically right-wing while sci-fi is historically left wing. However it seems to me that current Hollywood is more like:

Sci-fi = Far Left wing: Star Wars, Star Trek, Terminator (I'm guessing from what little we know), Marvel Phase 4 (almost guaranteed), Lucy, Ghostbusters, Ghost In the Shell, Alita (?), Mortal Engines (?)

Action Movies & TV = Left wing: CW Shows, Marvel Netflix Shows, Female lead action movies (Atomic Blonde, Red Sparrow, Tomb Raider, etc.)

As you noted we have Jack Ryan (haven't seen that yet because its on Amazon). We have Bond (consistently under attack by the Left), Gerard Butler (I liked London Has Fallen) and Tom Cruise (I suppose Jack Reacher leans to the right). But things seem as politically lopsided as Hollywood itself - which is understandable I guess. Then again that could just be my own false impressions contrasted against the testosterone of my formative years (the 80s).  ;)

General Comic Discussion / Re: Comicsgate
« on: October 20, 2018, 12:30:07 PM »
Well you used star trek as an example. Why they had some hotties in Star Trek...very few were SUPER HOT.

But they were generally feminine and if not overtly feminine they always had episodes that explored their femininity (Tasha Yar character for instance).

Yea you had Troi, and Seven of nine. But you also had your Janeways, Your crushers..I like Kira..but she not classical beuty that going to pin up walls.

I don't watch Star Trek Discovery so maybe there are some feminine characters on that show to balance out the masculinity of the lead female role...Michael?  ::)

This kind of example how everything scene in a political lense now. Since no one at the time was complaing how fuckable they are.

No one is complaining about that now either. My point is that the Left doesn't like female attractiveness or femininity, which is why we rarely see it anymore.

If Sisko was out now..it be complaints about "Oh it HAD to be the british imperelist white captain" who killed Sisko family.  And really star Trek was always hippy as fuck anyway. Just wasn't ton of youtube guys to bitch about it. So it been grandfathered in

If that was the case today you'd probably have the writer of the show virtue signal about how the show takes a stand against colonial oppression and slavery to fellate the Left-wing media...the same way Discovery came out to make a point that Klingons were based on Republicans.

And again your using She-Ra as an example. Something he nor any of us saw a first episode. Base on a picture

And after seeing the trailer...She look pretty girly with the flowing hair. It not boyish..looks Girly. Looks girly as fucked. Girls are the target because it fucking Shera. And they probally going to love it. They will get the dolls and shit, and probally dress up as her. And any of our daughter will probally look super adorable in it.


Certainly looks better than the original stills (though that jawline is masculine). Show actually looks entertaining enough though - I like how they play up the rivalry between her and her former 'bestie' - good friction opportunities there.

as for conservatives value in Media.  Torture Always work. Most action heroes are conservative. They tend to be anti goverment.

You don't see many modern action heroes fighting for truth, justice and the American way. That was certainly the case back in the 80's...the height of testosterone.  :D

Lot of stories about people just needing to get back to the country...where the Real people are. You know Your Doc Hollywood type trope.  Or a Rouge Cop who has to play by his own rules to get the Job done. Because even people like me can Enjoy 24 or even old school stuff like Cobra, and Death wish without getting up an arms about it.

Then your got brukhemiers and Michal bay who stuff is VERY pro millitary. Almost to the point of worship

Michael Bay certainly likes to add the military and attractive women into his movies.

Slashers can be oddly conservative attimes
Most views on marraige can be conservatives. If its a divorce couple they will get back together

It easy to pick out things if you actilly seeking things out to fit a narrative

That why Nolan Batman..can be seen in different ways politically.

Totally agree.

Marvel Zombies / Re: What has Aaron done?
« on: September 28, 2018, 09:22:57 PM »
Well the punchometer...

...is the greatest and most accurate Comic Book fight predictor ever created.

Marvel Zombies / Re: What has Aaron done?
« on: September 28, 2018, 09:21:10 PM »
"Probably" an exaggeration? C'mon.

Regardless, CG's bad attitudes toward minority and female characters created or revamped at Marvel this decade run far beyond replacements of white male characters (Ms Marvel, Captain Marvel, Miles, Squirrel Girl...). This isn't really debatable for the movement as a whole, since there's plenty of pro-CG material arguing just that, whether or not your own individual views reflect their stances.

Are people not allowed to have a bad attitude towards characters they find are some combination of:
- shallow and uninteresting
- political mouthpieces
- diversified knock-offs

Miles Morales is only relatively better received by CGers than Riri--there's still plenty of CG dislike and "diversity hire" flack thrown his way by a sizeable portion of the movement on CG sites, Twitter, YouTube comments sections, etc. Even Meyer himself dislikes Miles, though he avoids using racial reasons to explain why.

The only criticism I have seen from him about Miles was in the recent crossover featuring both 'Spider-men' where it seemed Miles was acting more like the established, experienced hero while Peter acted like the opposite.

No, I've been pretty fair in sticking to actual things leading CG figures and sites have repeatedly claimed and asserted. I'm definitely not just grabbing random postings from the dregs of pro-CG sock accounts that have 3 Facebook friends, or my citations would be much worse. :)

...and so far the most you have is that D&C has said some offensive things about a year ago (mainly in a private chat) and made some clickbait-y exaggerated video titles.

No, that doesn't work. I tried to be fair ever since we started discussing this, and I've sampled his videos. He's repeatedly stated that women hired from other media don't work well in comics for lack of experience, even if they've worked in fiction before (check out his Life of Captain Marvel videos). Other CGers have repeatedly said the same things.

Yet equally he has praised multiple female writers from the past and present.

So what are you saying here...that female writers cannot be criticized? Or if you do criticize them you are automatically sexist?

So, yeah, making a YouTuber who doesn't even script his videos or employ any kind of creative production values--and whose only comics ventures beforehand were total financial and creative failures--one of the most successful of the CG creators is the height of hypocrisy.

Well I am sure if his books are bad (as I have repeatedly noted) his sales will diminish.

Although worst case scenario they are as lacklustre as some mainstream books.

I don't care that much, but even if I did I don't have to pray--he's already released plenty of scripted pages, and they were objectively awful.

I'm not even talking about taste--I love plenty of trash (pulp fiction, grindhouse movies, etc.). But on a technical level, they're bad.

I don't like the art, beyond that the writing didn't seem hideous and given the story I wasn't expecting Watchmen.

The pretense that CG is apolitical, and not largely just a mostly reactionary right wing movement?

There are virtually no mainstream Conservative writers so those writers have to go somewhere.

As for political or apolitical content, lets just let the market sort out what it wants. I don't particularly want any political preaching in my entertainment - but then again I also don't see MS-13 being used as villainous characters any different from using any other types of villains (Nazis, Commies, Islamic Terrorists, Mafia or whatever).

You think anti-Nazi and anti-fascist sentiments were held by all Americans when Captain America #1 came out, before the U.S. entered the war?

I'd doubt it since even in Britain here at that time there were many pro-fascists like (politician) Oswold Mosley. However, importantly they were vastly outnumbered and I suspect the same was the case in the US.

You should research the phrase "prematurely anti-fascist"--not only were those sentiments considered left wing and divisive by conservatives and even some centrists in the U.S. at the time, but being on the record as having been anti-Nazi/anti-fascist before 1942 was used as evidence of possible communist ties during the 50's and 60's. Simon and Kirby were making a huge political statement with Cap, and it was mostly a left wing thing until the U.S. caught up.

(...looked into it) Very interesting although (as you note) 'possible communist ties' were something that occurred a decade or so later (after Nazism had been defeated).

And while Marvel's anti-communist messages were more mainstream in the early 60's, Stan's very unsubtle and in-your-face pro-Civil Rights sermonizing certainly was not. Everyone remembers Martin Luther King Jr. as a saint nowadays, but there were huge swaths of the country against what he was doing, particularly by conservatives in both parties and much of the South. Our contemporary acceptance of those political platforms don't change how they were viewed at the time, and Stan got plenty of negative mail from the Silver Age equivalent of Comicsgaters for being too political.

Maybe if Stan was writing now he'd be doing stories with Captain America battling MS-13.  8)

Not only did Waid very explicitly say he wanted to talk to Meyer in the very Facebook thread Ethan cited, but they did in fact talk on the phone *5 days later* when it turned out Meyer wasn't at the con (also posted on Facebook). Any pretense otherwise by CGers is laughable, especially when the pretense is that the chubby middle-aged nerd with no record of violence was looking to smash the trained Marine with a record of kicking someone's ass (which Waid had already known about).

I know they talked in private. D&C mentioned it in one of his videos but said Waid didn't really want to chat as much as state his opinion.

Van Sciver knows all of this information, but still chose to blatantly and knowingly spread lies about Waid, full stop. You're better than defending such a profoundly stupid amd dishonest tactic on his part, and it's definitely another cynical example of the faux-martyrdom they typically engage in to help sell books.

Yet he did get his Publisher to drop him.

How is B. Clay Moore Waid's "cohort"? Explain to me what their relationship is, assuming they've ever even directly interacted at all in any meaningful way. Comicsgate is an actual movement, but simply being anti-Comicsgate is not.

That was just a fanciful comment on my part. I don't know what their relationship is other than they are both Anti-Comicsgate and both wanted to 'run into' Meyer at the Con.

But you've just admitted that you've never been to one of the most popular pro-CG web sites there is (much bigger than Bleeding Fool), and only occasionally watch videos from one of the most popular CG leaders there is, so it's weird to see you claim that he couldn't have been big because you didn't know about him.

I don't recall ever seeing (or reading) anyone talking about Bounding into Comics until about a week ago.

He made a quarter of a million dollars with Alt-Hero, dude. Whether or not you knew him, all you have to do is Google him and follow the contemporary discussions about him in 2017 and early 2018 to see what a big deal he was in those circles, including nabbing Chuck Dixon. Objectively, he'd be on the Mount Rushmore of CG leaders before the (purely financial) fallout with EVS.

I'll check him out.

That's simply not true, especially before September. Even from EVS himself, who was pulling for his success despite the criticisms of Vox's arrogance and lack of experience.

Also, frankly--and this isn't directed at you--all of the CGers who go apoplectic and lead boycotts against SJW creators, but then display a mild "live and let live" attitude about an open racist like Vox Day (with plenty even going further and supporting him) are repugnant.

I agree it would be hypocritical.

Again, not directed at you, but when this mild attitude about (and support for) Vox Day coexists in the same CG circles with the furious anger directed at leftist writers they want to drive out of their jobs, I think it's very telling.

But that's like saying why are Leftists not angry when comic writers (like Mags Visaggio) support Antifa?

There are always going to be followers on the fringes of Comicsgate who support Vox Day.

There are people on both sides who support extremism, but you can't condemn one side without also condemning the other.

While Meyer's attempts to repair his reputation definitely have their upside, that's a very feeble defense of Vox Day's career.

"The answer for those who support Western civilization, regardless of sex, color, or religion, is to embrace white tribalism, white separatism, and especially white Christian masculine rule."

That's Vox Day. Defending him is only one or two steps away from defending David Duke, who I'm sure also employs some people who don't agree with him.

Precisely why I don't support him.

Then again neither would I support Antifa and the Far Left anymore than I would support the Far Right.

"'Black Panther and the Crew' was a segregationist comic about white genocide!"--Richard Meyer on PJMedia.

That's about as blatant a lie as it gets. Even your own inaccurate paraphrase of his statement is wrong (despite correctly specifiying gentrification), since you can't even say "superheroes" were against it plurally (a single one was against gentrification, but one supported it, and the others didn't give a crap one way or the other).

Is it as much of a lie as calling EVS a Nazi?

Every single month? Really?

Averaging 12 per month this year. That's DOUBLE the average of the preceding 9 years.

You mean Fantastic Four #1, which was double-sized at 48 pages? Seems like a bargain at that price for a new issue.

Who knows maybe they'll even have the actual Fantastic Four in issue #2.

Ironheart #1 is going be $3.99 at less pages. The new Iron Man title was $4.99.

Part of me wants Ironheart (assuming its a good book) to do well, but I understand its tough for new(ish) characters. Especially derivative ones.

Not only does overshipping contribute $0 to the bottom line (the only thing shareholders care about), but plenty of comic store owners have already pointed out that overshipments have always been a staple of doing business for a very long time.

I'm also pretty sure Marvel isn't overshipping by a whole 50 - 100% "many" times.

That's what stores have reported to Bleeding Cool.

Standard industry practice even before the SJWs supposedly took over.

Are Retailer Incentive variants a new thing though? Or if not new, more in vogue than before.

Marvel is part of a publicly traded company that is legally required to report accurate financial statements, accountable to shareholders, for which anyone lying on their reports can go to jail. Comicsgaters are a bunch of YouTubers and artists who make up conspiracy theories and very obvious lies about the industry with no accountability whatsoever.

As COO, Joe Quesada would've ended up fired (or "resigned") by now if CG claims were even 5% true.

What claims? That sales are down 6-7 percent on the previous year?

On top of ignorance regarding easily searchable facts about comics industry and history, most of the more extreme Comicsgate business claims people like Meyer constantly spout display a shocking ignorance of how a public company of Marvel's size is run when there are 8 - 9 figure revenue streams at stake.

The only one who regularly touches on these things is Umbrella Guy and he seems to have a decent handle on the details.

But I already answered your question--I said it depended on how the scene was written.

Oh no...the poor MS-13 murderers deserve SO much better, we can't have them treated in a stereotypical fashion, think of their hurt feelings.  :'(

Now, answer mine: Are you confident I can show that page to a group of people who know nothing about Comicsgate and have less than 80% guess that Mike Miller is a pro-Trump conservative? Because that scene's politics are about as subtle as an atomic bomb, and would be obvious to any American who knows nothing else about the writer.

Already answered this. Any minority shown in a villainous light (even MS-13 gang members) is automatically going to infer a conservative writer given the left's 'shyness' in touching on such matters.

Calling people f**s and transphobic comments in particular isn't just incidental rudeness--he's attacking those things specifically. Griffith never attacked straight people as a group when Meyer called him a f**, and Devin Grayson had never said anything about Meyer at all when he threw really vile sexist accusations her way.

Neither of us know every specific of every social media exchange.

Has D&C been stupid in all this yes he has. Have other people been stupid, yes they have.

I think I mention in another post about watching Ricky Gervais recently on Netflix where he insults all sorts of people including Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner. But telling such a joke (even one in poor taste) doesn't make him transphobic.

But literally everything I said was correct on a technical level. He did write that they're having pudding for dinner because he was too lazy to do 30 seconds of Google translator research. He did bold words at seemingly random for very awkward emphasis. The sound effects are in the wrong spots at points. The dialogue is stilted and unnatural, without style to compensate. Etc.

As I understand it his son is Mexican (or half-Mexican) and presumably the son's mother. So he is going to have more of a knowledge on the words used than I am. I presume that's what he's drawing upon.

You can claim "Hey, it's fun anyway", but technique is technique, and that's a pretty poor outing after criticizing the likes of his betters for 1000 hours.

I'm sure they'll be lining up to criticize his books don't worry. :)

I said "maybe", and that's faint praise when I'm comparing him to Marvel's worst writer.

But still important to note you are saying he is good enough to work for Marvel.  ;)

Marvel Zombies / Re: What has Aaron done?
« on: September 24, 2018, 04:34:52 PM »
Hey V-Q...I'm going to be busy for the next 2-3 days. I'll try and squeeze in another reply tonight but if not I might be AWOL til Friday. Just a heads up.

Marvel Zombies / Re: What has Aaron done?
« on: September 24, 2018, 04:30:21 PM »
Just wanted to address this on its own in case I can't finish responding today, but that's a total fabrication I've seen CGers throw around--so in case that's where you're getting your numbers from:


Diamond reached 2,638 accounts as of that report in September 2013, after the dark days of the late 90's when the # of comic shops dropped below 2,000 (after a high of perhaps 7K - 8K during the unsustainable speculation boom of the early 90's). At no point during this century did the number of comic shops rise to above even 3,000, given that Diamond's retailer customer count growth was reported as roughly 2 - 3% a year after 2013 through 2016--the store count then dropped a whopping 1% in 2017 according to Diamond's VP, so it can't currently be below 2500 shops, either.

This serves once again to illustrate what frauds Meyer and the rest of the Comicsgate leaders are, blowing anecdotal evidence of comic shops closing out of proportion to feed into CG's savior and SJW persecution narrative (in addition to ignoring the actual sales data), spread completely false information about comic shop counts, etc.

Yes your numbers seemed much more plausible (that 6000 didn't seem real). Its possible he meant 2600 and not 6000 (maybe I misheard him? ); that makes more sense now that 50 closures in a year would be important.

Yeah, the DM is experiencing problems (the 2017 sales drop was worse in the DM in particular), but this was offset by gains that were improved and/or retained in the book market, which is what helped keep the industry a billion dollars + and where comic sales have begun to transition.

Understandable - comics are written for the trade today so its no surprise trades are doing better while comic sales drop off a bit.

CG focusing only on the DM (and lying about it) while ignoring the book market, and blaming the relatively small % of DM closures on SJWs, is one of the movement's most dishonest and stupid tactics (at least on the so-called leaders' parts).

Bleeding Cool reported about 50 Comic Shops closed in 2017 which would be around 2% for that year as well as earlier this year when 15 closed within one month (suggesting another 2% for the year in all likelihood).


Marvel Zombies / Re: What has Aaron done?
« on: September 24, 2018, 04:15:38 PM »
Or he could have funneled all off that Russian money into real estate "investments", the way Trump did.

I'd agree you don't get to be a billionaire without stepping on a lot of toes.

Either way, Manafort is now on the record as pleading guilty to concealing being an agent for Putin's Ukrainian interests, at the same time that Trump successfully pressured the Republican Party to change their Ukrainian platform, lied repeatedly about various Russian meetings that took place with his son and political associates/operatives (some of which have already pleaded guilty to lying about said meetings with Russian agents), coincidentally is creating tensions within NATO, etc., etc. Trying to claim there's absolutely nothing to suggest that the Trump/Russian collusion angle is more than a crazy conspiracy theory is rather silly at this point.

Guilt by association now then?

Yeah, I mentioned 70 mil earlier in the thread; that was just a typo.

6% after 25% growth over 5 years is not even close to meaning the industry is dying, and you know it.

I agree, its called an exaggeration. However, it is a decline.

No, as we said before, overships do not count as *revenue*, which is all I've cited.

Meyer lies to his followers and pretends it does (or is too ignorant to learn), but it doesn't--overshipments only count toward unit volume.

Yes we tackled overships but they weren't the only tactic at play.

(although those 10+ #1 issues EVERY month is certainly boosting them with Speculators)

Would you like to research the volume of #1's Marvel has published every year in the past decade or two, especially as a ratio of total titles?

I guarantee any increases in the rate over the past couple years aren't anywhere near as substantial as CG suggests vs what they were in the supposed pre-SJW era.

AFAIK I'm the only person who has mentioned the increased #1 issues.

I took a look 2009-2018.

Average #1 issues per month by Marvel

2009 = 6
2010 = 8
2011 = 5
2012 = 3
2013 = 4
2014 = 7
2015 = 11 (beginning of All-new All-different and the soft reboot of the Marvel Universe hence the spike, would have been 8 without the spike assuming typical months for those 2 months)
2016 = 7
2017 = 6
2018 (currently) = 12

Conclusions: Pre-2018 the average launch rate was 6 #1's per month (even adding 2015's 2 month spike). That figure has been doubled for 2018.

I think time will tell if that is Marvel's new monthly strategy or simply a temporary upswing in their proliferation of #1's. Either way we should know by mid-2019.

but to answer your question directly I think the sum totality of Comicsgate videos and articles talking about the Industry dying is a very small percentage of all articles/videos and often simply done for exaggeration purposes.

He's titled two videos that way in the last couple weeks,

So 2 videos in the past 2-3 weeks where he probably made 50+ videos.

references Marvel's/the industry's low sales repeatedly in other videos, and his Twitter feed has been full of tweets and retweets exaggerating (or outright lying about) Marvel's sales slump (they've been up the last two quarters, but Meyer has reposted conspiracy theories about how they're secretly down), the rate of dying comic stores (without establishing any kind of baseline), etc.

He did establish a baseline in one video I saw where IIRC he noted it was 6000+ stores back in 2012 (or something like that).

You keep deflecting any responsibility on his part with a weak "Oh, but he's just exaggerating" excuse, as if most of his fans are buying what he's saying as legitimate truth.

About the same number of fools on the other side probably think Comicsgaters are all Nazis. Gullible people fall for exaggerations - that goes for both sides.

Twice in titles in the last week. Constantly on his Twitter feed over the last couple weeks. I bet if I wasted time listening to all of his videos, I'd find a lot more references to Marvel dying/industry dying/SJWs killing Marvel and the industry (I've already found more in my cursory review of his videos while trying to be fair to him).

Yes but if he is saying that based on falling sales and comic stores going out of business then while still an exaggeration (I agree) he's actually backing it up to a degree.

Not to mention we have Publishers like IDW actually losing $2+ million per year for the past few years.

Our individual opinions are irrelevant in the context of this discussion. Did you know Riri's comics were averaging 30+K copies an issue well into her run, and (like Ms Marvel) found success in the TPB market, too (where their efforts to attract more diverse audiences do best)? Consistently outselling other established flagship titles like Green Lantern, Nightwing, Aquaman, etc. is pretty damn good for a new character created in the last few years, which is why they're giving her the spin-off treatment.

That said, I find CG complaints about her and Iron Doom hilarious--most of them are either rarely based on the actual comics themselves or hilariously misinformed about the historical context of these tropes (both of which were exposed when you tried using their arguments here).

If RiRi is so popular I'm sure her Ironheart* book will be an amazing success.  ;)

*In fairness I actually do like her new costume design though.

Marvel Zombies / Re: What has Aaron done?
« on: September 24, 2018, 01:52:17 PM »
So I have been following this thread and honestly at this point I have to ask outside of referencing The Jane Thor run which has a lot of problems but is an outlier even in the career of that one writer does this whole movement have any points that have not been debunked by now?

It hasn't been debunked because they have enough material to comment upon and the continued 'faux outrage' of creators on twitter (stepped up recently) highlights that this is almost exclusively a divide on political grounds.

The whole "comics are dying" thing has been pretty clearly shown to be a massive example of exaggeration.

Well sales are down and comic stores are closing. So while saying Comics are Dying IS an exaggeration, the term is not an end state in and of itself.

The issue of marvel replacement characters has been pretty clearly shown to fit into the trend of past marvel history. Yeah some of them were pretty crappy but I put that down to a lot of current writers and styles that are given a ton of freedom. Was the iron man replacement really any worse then Bendis milking the whole secret of Ronin?

Too many replacement characters at the same time, none of whom were handled well and with each and every one Identity Politics were pushed ahead of story.

The whole current political trends are being unfairly forced into the comics is almost laughable compared to examples given from the past about how female characters were very intentionally margianialized in mainstream comics.

So do two wrongs make a right?

In regards to various other points they are clearly outright lying on several events in current comics or exaggerating them so far beyond the context of the actual comic that they are useless to consider as valid criticism. Say what you want about hyperbole but if you distort something enough that you are no longer addressing the actual subject matter then you no longer have the right to act like you are presenting a valid point.

Agreed and I think that works on both sides of the fence which is why the 'truth' lies somewhere in between.

A large number of the main personalities behind comicsgate are clearly sexist and racist. That has been pretty clearly shown through this thread and the fact that the movement is welling to accept the as major contributors says very negative things about it.

If you insult (for the purposes of humour or otherwise lets say for the sake of argument) various individuals including a woman does that automatically make you a sexist?

I was watching some Ricky Gervais stand-up (on Netflix) a few days ago and he was insulting/making fun of lots of people including Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner...does that mean he's automatically transphobic?

It's also pretty clear that the movement is being hugely hypocritical complaining about inserting politics into comics and then supporting material that is equally far right from creators in the community. Honestly if you can look at scans posted a page bag and not see how they are playing into political narratives just as much as Jane Thor played into its own then you are allowing your own political views to blind you. Both were a huge turn off for me.

Marvel character's punch Nazis...Comicsgate characters punch Nazis AND MS-13 yet the latter is deemed politically biased.  ::)

Are there actually any other issues because honestly it seems at this point comicsgate should be given zero credibility.

Certainly the (left leaning, identity politics steeped) mainstream wants Comicsgate totally no platformed.

Marvel Zombies / Re: What has Aaron done?
« on: September 24, 2018, 01:30:16 PM »
One of the themes of the story was Black Superheroes against Gentrification.

No, it wasn't.

...I mean I wonder what the author's own position is on the matter:

[quote author = Ta-Nahesi Coates]I know that ‘gentrification’ is but a more pleasing name for white supremacy,[/quote]


Marvel Zombies / Re: What has Aaron done?
« on: September 19, 2018, 12:31:26 PM »
(AFAIK) All profits from that second crowdfund on Iron Sights (selling off the remaining stock) went to LGBTQ Charity (the first $10,000) and the rest is going to Bill Messner Loebs.

Saw his post about the $10,000 yesterday, but I haven't seen him say he's not keeping most of the rest of the proceeds.

If I see him post that he's donated all of it, then fair enough.

I can only go by what I heard him say on a video, the rest of the money is going to a Bill Messner Loebs 'Go Fund Me' Page (or something like that).

Marvel Zombies / Re: What has Aaron done?
« on: September 19, 2018, 12:29:22 PM »
From the plea deal itself:

"The Special Counsel informs the Court:

"1. PAUL J. MANAFORT, JR. (MANAFORT) served for years as a political consultant and lobbyist. Between at least 2006 and 2015, MANAFORT conspired with Richard W. Gates (Gates), Konstantin Kilimnik (Kilimnik), and others to act, and acted, as unregistered agents of a foreign government and political party. Specifically, MANAFORT conspired to act and acted as an agent of the Government of Ukraine, the Party of Regions (a Ukrainian political party whose leader Victor Yanukovych was President from 2010 to 2014), President Yanukovych, and the Opposition Bloc (a successor to the Party of Regions that formed in 2014 when Yanukovych fled to Russia)."

The tax fraud is directly related to him hiding being a paid agent for Yanukovych (Putin's man in Ukraine), etc. There are even statements from Manafort about how he used Ben Shapiro to plant stories according to that party's needs.

Sounds like he should have openly funneled any monetary 'donations' from foreign powers into a 'Charity' (like the Clinton Foundation). But it highlights how corrupt people in Politics are.

Yeah, a mere $70 K less while still being a billion dollar industry.

Actually its down $70 MILLION...which is almost 7% of the Industry.

Comicsgaters have a vastly inflated sense of their current size and economic power, and rely on conspiracy theories and ignorance to convince a gullible percentage of mostly right wing fans that THE COMIC INDUSTRY IS DYING (Meyer has actually been pushing this narrative even more aggressively now, despite Marvel showing consecutive monthly growth since April).

I'd argue a lot of Marvel's 'growth' is dubious (although those 10+ #1 issues EVERY month is certainly boosting them with Speculators) but to answer your question directly I think the sum totality of Comicsgate videos and articles talking about the Industry dying is a very small percentage of all articles/videos and often simply done for exaggeration purposes.

Even my very casual following of VS and Meyer now is filled with a constant obsession of trying to convince their base that the industry is dying, conspiracy theories from anonymous sources that Marvel is actually secretly down 17%, conspiracy theories about blacklists and SJW agendas, fake persecution complexes, etc., on their Twitter feeds and YouTube videos.

By 'constant obsession' you mean talk about it once every 100 videos or something like that. :D

Except CG criticisms aren't limited to Jane Thor, so your defense there doesn't really hold up.

Any counter criticism from you would be showing how RiRi (for instance) was a good character with good stories. Which you can't.

I've read articles from CG sites like Bounding Into Comics call characters like Ms Marvel, Miles, et al diversity hires who whose creations were too driven by their ethnic/racial identities and nothing else, unlike the supposed good ole' days.

I suspect that's probably an exaggeration on their part. While its clear many of these new creators are only too happy to espouse their (left leaning of course) political opinions in both their writing AND on social media - I'd like to think that wasn't their only reason for getting into comics.

Except in the good ole' days, characters like the all-new X-Men, Falcon, Black Panther, etc. were specifically created specifically for diversity and political reasons first, and they were no more three dimensional than someone like Ms Marvel.

Even if a character was created specifically for diversity and political reasons* (and personally I'm all for diversity and representation) they'll be MUCH better received if the stories they feature in don't ram identity politics down the readers throats at every turn.

*Such as Miles Morales for instance who is a far better received character than RiRi, despite coming from the same writer.

CG philosophies are mostly based on willful distortions or genuine ignorance of actual comic history, current comic business practices, and business 101.

I think you are confusing Comicsgate 'philosophies' with anything ever said by any Comicsgater ever including Clickbait video titles.

Except this is a movement about quality and industry experience. Why would they willfully choose to spend so much of their money on a YouTuber whose only previous experience are failures, unless they're guilty of exactly the kind of behavior they claim SJWs indulge in?

Probably because if his books are half as entertaining as his channel then they'll be fun reads.

Marketing isn't an excuse--that actually makes it worse because of the nature of their rallying cries and criticisms. In the end, they bought Meyer's comic almost solely because of his identity as a leader in their community.

...and because he is entertaining.

Given the samples Meyer has released, my magic 8-ball says the CG community better be ready to get clowned.

I'm sure you and others are praying* its bad. :D

*Even the atheists

Also, again, marketing is no excuse, given the movement's goals. A vegan community caught eating burgers doesn't get to say, "Oh, but the marketing!" to avoid getting mocked. If you're a movement, you either stick to your principles or don't.

I don't see what principles they have not stuck to. The primary principle has ever been to see (and make) entertaining comics not drenched in identity politics.

Then CG should just abandon their non-political pretense and admit what they are.

What political pretense are you on about?

Also, Marvel comics in particular have consistently been mostly about left wing politics within the context of their times. Even the anti-Commie stance of the early 60's was just Kennedy-flavored Democratic politics.

Yes and anti-Nazi comics of the 40s and Anti-Commie comics of the 60s were values held by all (because Nazism and Communism are terrible ideologies).

Many of today's mainstream comics are openly Anti-Conservative/Republican though - as are many vocal mainstream creators.

So you can't point to Cap punching Hitler or Thor blowing up Commie tanks as examples to excuse modern identity politics in comics.

You are aware that even within that post, Waid made it clear within a couple hours that it was to talk to him, right?

Except Waid obviously doesn't want to talk with Meyer at all - otherwise he could have spoken to him on twitter or on a livestream (as Waid did with EVS).

And Van Sciver not only already knows this, but knows that Waid is a 56 year old chubby nerd with 0 adult fighting experience, and Richard Meyer is a trained Marine who already got into legal trouble for kicking someone's ass (which Waid knew about)?

But, sure, let's let Van Sciver off the hook for continuing to tell this absolutely moronic lie.

I don't see Waid getting into a fistfight with Meyer but I could see some of his baying cohorts (like B. Clay Moore* who IIRC did private message about punching Meyer at that Con) starting something.

*who's Kickstarter book still hasn't been fulfilled years after he took the money.  ::)

Vox Day was repeatedly discussed in CG circles and even sites like Bounding Into Comics; he was on Van Sciver's channel; etc. His crowd funded success with the first Alt-Hero is what helped ignite CG crowdfunding heading into 2018.

I've never actually been to Bounding Into Comics (though I'll go check them out) and I never saw him on EVS channel (I only watch the occasional video so I could have easily missed him), so he can't have been THAT big a presence.

I believe what you're saying about your own experience, but the leaders in the CG community clearly knew what he was and aligned themselves with him anyway until he screwed them over (and, even then, he's retained support from significant corners of CG).

I don't agree with what Vox has said but I'm not going to begrudge him making a living just because he has opinions I find distasteful. From what I saw the vast majority of Comicsgaters were in opposition to him.

Equally, I'm not going to criticize creators who work with him either directly or tangentally, that's their business. Even if you find some of the things D&C has said distasteful, I'm sure you'd agree his giving $10,000 to LGBT charities is a GOOD thing. So positives can come from people we disagree with; Vox likely employs 'x' amount of people and my guess is most of them don't share many of his opinions.

I'm literally just describing exactly what Meyer did. He blatantly lied about Black Panther and the Crew using terms like "white genocide" on YouTube, PJMedia, and even Twitter to court clicks from that Vox Day crowd.

He exaggerated, he didn't lie. One of the themes of the story was Black Superheroes against Gentrification.

Additionally, Meyer and Van Sciver talk about the maybe 25 stores that have closed over the past 9 months, while not pointing out that this would be about 1% of the 2500 to 3000 retailers Diamond currently serves; they exaggerate while not even knowing what the closure rates were in past years to establish a baseline, etc.

AFAIK several years ago (c. 2012-14) there were 6000+ retailers with Diamond and that is now under 2500.

When you combine that with the fact that a small drop in sales definitely doesn't warrant the hysterical COMICS ARE DYING claims, their invention of conspiracy theories to ignore the sales trends of the last two fiscal quarters, etc., it's pretty clear that their entire movement is just a cynical marketing ploy to get right wing people to buy their comics as part of a silly savior movement against supposedly radical leftists.

If the Industry was as healthy as you suggest Marvel wouldn't need to release 10+ NEW #1 issues EVERY SINGLE MONTH.

If the Industry was as healthy as you suggest Marvel wouldn't be charging up to $5.99 for #1 issues.

If the Industry was as healthy as you suggest Marvel wouldn't need to be overshipping 50-100% on many of its titles.

If the Industry was as healthy as you suggest Marvel wouldn't need half a dozen or more variant covers on many of its titles (in particular #1 issues).

Yes Comicsgaters are exaggerating the death of the Industry BUT at the same time Marvel are exaggerating the vitality of the Industry. The truth is probably somewhere in between.

That's a hypothetical, and I think you're being a bit rhetorically disingenuous, here. It's not just their use--it's how it's written.

I'll tell you what--if I put those pages up on a big bi-partisan political Facebook page I'm a part of whose members I'm sure know nothing about Comicsgate, and I take a poll asking them to guess the writer's political affiliation, do you really think at least 80% of the conservatives and liberals there wouldn't be able to guess Mike Miller is a Trump supporter?

Would you like to wager on it? Say, the winner gets to decide the other's profile pic and signature for a week? :)

What would that prove other than MS-13 are defended by the left leaning mainstream media and thus by default any portrayal of them as villains must be 'right wing'.

Again you dodged the actual question though.

Why is having MS-13 as villains in a comic a bad thing?

Meyer has called homosexual creators fags and made plenty of transphobic comments. Come on, man.

He has certainly been rude to INDIVIDUAL creators who happened to be trans or gay, notably after those self-same creators themselves made comments attacking (for example) CIS people (Visaggio) or white people (Rivera) etc.

What's wrong with the writing in that 20 page sample, other than hilarious misuse of Spanish food, stilted and awkward dialogue with bolding in all the wrong places, paper thin plotting, barely 1-dimensional characters, and failed 1-page comedy gags? Not to mention the really bad and lazy art.

Wow! That was Comicsgater levels of exaggeration right there...have you ever considered a career as a Youtuber?  :D

I mean, him shitting on other writers for 500 hours of video only compounds the clowning he's been getting (you better write like Alan Moore and use an artist on J.H. Williams's level if you're going to be that much of a troll), but Meyer's pretty clearly substandard when compared against almost any of the writers he's been railing against for the past year or two except maybe the dud who wrote the America series.

So you are saying Meyer is at least better than one of Marvel's most heavily promoted and high profile writers. ;)

Marvel Zombies / Re: What has Aaron done?
« on: September 17, 2018, 08:27:04 PM »
Not to be pedantic, but again, using terms like “fleece” implies that Meyer is swindling his customers, or pulling a bait and switch. AFAIK, he isn’t. He’s being upfront about his price and product, and people are free to buy the stand-alone graphic novel. Is he being greedy? Maybe. But he’s not being dishonest. I have to wonder who the hell is buying the hundred dollar version, though. I agree with you that if I’m paying more than twenty dollars for a graphic novel, there should be something extra, like backup stories or bonus art. And even then, I’m not paying a hundred fucking dollars.

I agree with you on that.

Most Crowdfund comic campaigns ask for slightly more money than what you will typically pay in shops because there are a bunch of variables involved (such as potential smaller print runs costing more, shipping rates, packaging and so forth) and they don't want to be caught out.

Personally I think $25-30 for a 100+ page Graphic Novel is probably the standard rate on most of these crowdfunds. Any additions (t-shirts, posters etc.) are a way to support the campaign but still get something (hopefully cool) in return.

I remember a few years ago I had a bunch of separate individuals offer me money to simply start writing RPG material again (in a sort of Patreon type way) but I declined. So dedicated fans of something are often willing to give creators money simply to keep 'creating'.

To get back to comics, where I start to worry is when its $25 (or whatever) for only 50 pages or thereabouts. I think that might be a dangerous road to travel (long term anyway). Of course Marvel are selling 20 pages at $5.99 on some books now so its not a million miles away.

But if a standard 120-160 page Trade/Graphic Novel is $15-20 in the shops then a crowdfunded book going for $25-30 is totally fine by me.

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