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Messages - The Shuruku Demon

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1
ICT / Re: Battle of the Week: Spider-Man vs Deathstroke
« on: September 11, 2018, 03:17:08 PM »
The odd shot, sure, mainly from heroes who're almost certainly holding back. He can also consistently be hurt by street levellers. The durability of comicbook characters is somewhat elastic, varying to meet the needs of a given story. What this means in practice is that neither Slade nor Spidey are likely to look as durable while fighting eachother as they would if they were fighting top-tiers.

I've seen multiple fights he's had with Wonder Woman where she gets pissed and decks him.  Sure, Diana was probably holding back but I don't see Peter taking those same shots and remaining on his feet.

Could you post the examples you have in mind? I think it'd be helpful to look at the specifics of each instance.

On average, Slade walks away from worse attacks than Peter.

On average, Peter Parker lifts heavier weights than Ben Reilly. Does that mean Ben can't lift as much as Peter?





Just too see DS durability from a different prospective, there're scans like these that imho show superhuman durability. I dont think gear can really help here.

Captain America has comparable feats to three out of those four showings. Not the last one to my knowledge, but that seems like an outlier.

2
ICT / Re: Battle of the Week: Spider-Man vs Deathstroke
« on: September 11, 2018, 11:50:48 AM »
The odd shot, sure, mainly from heroes who're almost certainly holding back. He can also consistently be hurt by street levellers. The durability of comicbook characters is somewhat elastic, varying to meet the needs of a given story. What this means in practice is that neither Slade nor Spidey are likely to look as durable while fighting eachother as they would if they were fighting top-tiers.

3
ICT / Re: Rhino vs Batman
« on: September 11, 2018, 11:45:43 AM »
Rhino didn't really start jobbing until the late '80s or early '90s, and he worked fine before that. Better, I'd argue. He's supposed to be the most physically powerful of Spider-Man's main rogues, so it doesn't seem fitting that he should be easy to put down. Easy to outwit, on the other hand? I've no problem with that at all.

4
ICT / Re: Battle of the Week: Spider-Man vs Deathstroke
« on: September 11, 2018, 11:40:07 AM »
Slade has alot of nice durability showings, but he's benefitting from his body armour and his enhanced healing in many of those, which should be taken into account when assessing his innate resistance to injury.

Sure, but he's not fighting Spidey naked in this thread so I'm wondering why you even brought it up.

As I said to Animalia, Slade's head isn't armoured the way his torso is, and in a fight with Spidey, most of the strikes are likely to be aimed at his face.

5
ICT / Re: Battle of the Week: Spider-Man vs Deathstroke
« on: September 11, 2018, 11:38:31 AM »
Ah. Why'd he ditch it?

He's had repeated clashes with Batman lately, and Batman found a way to jam the shield on the Ikon suit, so Slade apparently switched to his classic suit on account of that.




Could he have beaten Spidey using it?

Slade would be a heavy favourite to win with the Ikon suit. It's a near 50/50 fight with his standard gear IMO.

6
ICT / Re: Battle of the Week: Spider-Man vs Deathstroke
« on: September 11, 2018, 11:01:40 AM »
What about this Ikonn shield or whatnot?

Slade doesn't use that anymore. He currently wears more or less the same kind of armour he wore classically.

7
ICT / Re: Battle of the Week: Spider-Man vs Deathstroke
« on: September 11, 2018, 10:55:09 AM »
Slade has alot of nice durability showings, but he's benefitting from his body armour and his enhanced healing in many of those, which should be taken into account when assessing his innate resistance to injury.

Also, determining that a character is superior to another in a given respect because they're done a particular thing more often is a haphazard way of going about things. Spider-Man has way more strength feats than U.S. Agent or Ben Reilly, but does that make him stronger than either one? No, because feats aren't everything. Character concept matters as well.

One of the reasons goken's arguments are so messed up is because he appears to largely disregard character concept, and goes primarily by high showings. He serves as a case study in the pitfalls of having your views dictated solely by who has the most impressive feats in a given category, rather than factoring in where characters are supposed to be in general.

8
ICT / Re: Battle of the Week: Spider-Man vs Deathstroke
« on: September 11, 2018, 10:25:43 AM »
Even Batman has taken hits from people on that level. Are we going to argue that he's genuinely as or more durable than Peter as well? I'd expect that kind of logic from gokenadams, but not from most normal posters.

9
ICT / Re: Battle of the Week: Spider-Man vs Deathstroke
« on: September 11, 2018, 10:15:05 AM »
Sure, I wasnt saying Peter cant knock him out.

I know. I'm just establishing that Peter has inflicted enough damage to overcome healing factors before.

That said, not sure Peter would fare way better after being pummeled by Batman(with gauntlet), by Wonder Woman or after taking the same punishment Wolvie did by...let's another Spiderman.

Slade's body armour aside, there's no direct evidence I'm aware of that he has disproportionately high durability. His innate durability, like Peter's, seems to be proportionate to his strength level, and since his strength is clearly lower than Peter's, that means his innate durability is almost certainly lower too.

He does have the body armour to augment his innate durability, and I'd say the areas of his body where he's protected by the armour are more durable than Peter, particularly against cutting attacks and energy blasts. However, he doesn't appear to wear any armour on his head, and in a fight with Peter, most of the punches he receives are likely to be aimed at his face rather than his torso.

10
ICT / Re: The Sinister Six vs the Wrecking Crew
« on: September 11, 2018, 09:43:45 AM »
Rhino took down a power-sharing Wrecker, but was then struck from behind by Thunderball's wrecking ball, and appeared to be in trouble before the Punisher took Thunderball out by coldcocking him with the Wrecker's crowbar.

Like AP said, I think this depends on the Sinister Six roster. With the exception of Thunderball, the Wrecking Crew aren't very smart, but they're all individually quite a bit stronger and tougher than Spider-Man.

If we take the original Sinister Six, Vulture and Kraven lack the offensive power to do any real damage, and while classic Doc Ock could hurt the Crew members, they're strong enough to rip his tentacles apart and one-shot him at close range. Classic Electro could do significant damage, but could also be one-shotted by any of the Crew. Mysterio has no means of hurting the Crew directly, but he could get them to fight each other with the right illusions; then again, he too could also be one-shotted if things don't go to plan. The only member of the original Sinister Six who can't potentially be one-shotted is the Sandman. So while this Sinister Six certainly are capable of beating the Crew, I wouldn't make them strong favourites by any means.

If we take the more recent incarnation of the Sinister Six from Dan Slott's run, it's a different story. You've still got a couple of low-powered members in Mysterio and the Chameleon, but at this point Doc Ock was more heavily armoured, and using carbonadium tentacles. Electro had been upgraded by the Mad Thinker, and could now turn his body into pure electricity and fly around like a speedster. Sandman was still on the team, and they had the Rhino for added muscle. This version of the Sinister Six would be solidly favoured over the Crew.

11
ICT / Re: Battle of the Week: Spider-Man vs Deathstroke
« on: September 10, 2018, 07:28:53 PM »
I'm also ok with a split result or even a 6/10 for Peter.

I said I feel DS is more durable because aside his increased durability he's also a pretty good healing factor.
I think Spiderman is a bit harder to hurt (using blunt attacks) but Slade can take more damage in the end.

Slade can recover from more serious injuries, like having his brains blown out, but I don't think he's harder to knock out. And Spider-Man has knocked out both Deadpool and Wolverine, so he's well capable of knocking out Slade IMO. If Slade took the pummelling to the dome Wolverine took in the SPIDER-MAN VS. WOLVERINE one-shot, not only would he likely be knocked out, his skull would likely be crushed, like he said it nearly was by those gauntlets Batman used in their recent fight.

12
ICT / Re: Elektra vs Batman h2h
« on: September 10, 2018, 07:19:02 PM »
She's ABSOLUTELY stronger than Batman. nothing I said contradicted it,  What does ME thinking Bruce is a better fighter have to do with Elektra being stronger? STRENGTH AND SKILL ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS

Of course, but both of those attributes are a factor in determining who beats whom, and if Elektra were genuinely stronger than Batman -- which isn't a remotely credible position, but it's one you're sticking with -- that undermines the case for Batman being a favourite against her in a H2H fight.

Elektra would beat slade, yes. so what? how is that in relation to Batman?  Are yOU ASSUMING Slade is more skilled than Bruce? because he isn't.

Bruce is definitely more skilled than Slade, but he's generally portrayed as an underdog against Slade in a fight. And yet here you are claiming Batman would beat Elektra, who you've argued would beat Slade. If Batman can't beat Slade for a majority, why should he be favoured over someone who's superior to Slade?

you're actually all over the place

How so?

And how did Letters prove that Batman is more skilled than Shang-Chi and Iron Fist? You failed to address that question.

13
ICT / Re: Rhino vs Batman
« on: September 10, 2018, 03:37:47 PM »
Even without the suit, Rhino is still more bulletproof than Wonder Woman.








14
ICT / Re: Who picks up a new fighting style quickest
« on: September 10, 2018, 12:26:21 PM »
I was discussing the comparative benefits of Cap's enhancements versus U.S. Agent's in a power pick thread on another board recently, and I opted to review their Master Edition OHOTMU bios for reference, since that edition offered individual ratings for stats like speed, agility, durability, stamina, etc. Agent was ranked higher in every physical category, but he only got a rating of Normal in intelligence, whereas Cap was rated Peak Human, like he was in all his physical stats.

15
ICT / Re: Elektra vs Batman h2h
« on: September 09, 2018, 06:37:11 PM »
Cap is enhanced though, and is generally regarded as being above Marvel's non-enhanced MAs because of that. Do you think Batman is above Shang-Chi and Iron Fist in pure H2H formidability?

yes.

http://herochat.com/index.php?topic=18875.30

Registeredsexoffer proved Bruce was

He did? What was his proof?

And BTW, I just skimmed that thread, and you were playing Bruce down there, noting losses to "cass, bronze tiger, shiva, etc".
http://herochat.com/index.php?topic=18875.msg368785#msg368785

And in another thread you created a few weeks ago, you suggested Elektra would take a majority over Deathstroke, and claimed she's stronger than Batman.
http://herochat.com/index.php?topic=19110.msg371849#msg371849

Can you reconcile all these positions? Because it seems like you're all over the place as regards how these characters stack up.

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