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Messages - Sick Nick

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I just read an advance review of Red Sonja #21 and...

SPOILERS

















yes, Sonja punches a shark in the face! Do fish have faces???!

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ICT / Re: Iron Man vs Tiger Shark
« on: September 21, 2018, 05:41:06 AM »
Ms Marvel walloped Tiger Shark. Hell, Punisher took him down.

TS was created to be Namor's most powerful villain and was probably just as strong as Namor in his first few years but he's fallen really hard since then. He doesn't stand a chance against IM.

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ICT / Re: Wonder Woman vs Thor | Better fighter/Who's more skilled?
« on: September 21, 2018, 05:37:10 AM »
Yeah, WW's gets played up and factors into her wins considerably more than for Thor. In all seriousness, it's probably in large part because she's a woman and writers are more comfortable with a woman using skill and speed to win than having one just overpower other powerhouses, but it definitely gets played up more for her. Which I guess is to say she's more hth skilled.

And this is also a good post. I think Whiskey's bang on the money. For all WW's raw power, I think a lot of writers still prefer to write women throwing flying kicks and using their speed and jumping around and what not, rather than just punching their opponents straight-up in the face.

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ICT / Re: Wonder Woman vs Thor | Better fighter/Who's more skilled?
« on: September 21, 2018, 05:35:29 AM »
Yeah, there's a pretty strong comic convention where HtH skill is rarely given much actual value in deciding battles at the top tier level. Nowhere near the credit it gets at the street level.
There's lip service a plenty, but Thor or Orion's 'skill' doesn't seem to end up being a major factor when fighting Superman or Gladiator or anyone in their weight class. It does come up from time to time, and if you search, you'll find scans a plenty. But when compared to the number of fights where it doesn't seem to matter, such occasions are a small minority IMO.
What is special about WW is she is one of the few top tiers consistently credited with serious HtH skillz, and where these skills are often shown to be decisive factors in her fights.
So regardless of who is theoretically more skilled, WW is effectively more skilled and likely the most effectively skilled elite top tier combatant.

This is a good post.

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ICT / Re: Silver Surfer VS Excalibur
« on: September 21, 2018, 05:34:24 AM »
I'm thinking he could take it, but it'd be a fun fight to watch for a while. I'll admit, though, that I've never had a great handle on what Meghan is capable of.

She's only really limited by location and her imagination, I think. She's probably Excalibur's biggest gun, depending on how she fights.

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ICT / Re: Where does Spider-Man sit nowadays?
« on: September 20, 2018, 08:28:33 AM »
He's had formal power ups to 15 and 20 but his bio says he's 10 now, although he has feats under his belt that no 10 tonner has any business having.

FWIW, I don't think he should be as strong as Lizard or Puma, who are 12 tons level. OTOH, Scorpion is 15 tons level and Doc Ock with Spidey's powers shattered Scorp's jaw with a punch.

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ICT / Re: Movie Thor vs Disney Hercules
« on: September 20, 2018, 08:26:10 AM »
Answer: Who Put The Glad In 'Gladiator'?

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ICT / Re: Superman/Wonder Woman vs Thor/Hercules in JLA/Avengers
« on: September 17, 2018, 06:59:56 AM »
This was while Sersi and other Avengers were shown in the book. Cap said Thor was always the most powerful Avenger. That's a pretty distinct thing from saying he was less powerful than Sersi or Warbird.


I'm just repeating what Busiek said. Was Sersi standing right in front of Cap when he said that? Perhaps Cap's opinion isn't necessarily Busiek's? Cap also said he wouldn't argue with Hulk in 'Secret Wars' when he said he was the strongest hero present, despite Thor being around.

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I disagree.

With what? Just the Binary comment or the rest of it?

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He clearly wrote Thor more powerful than Warbird when Carol was turned into Warbird later in the book.


Warbird? Busiek said Thor wasn't as powerful as Binary.

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Not exactly. It hasn't been shown that way in decades. Even GL rings aren't that versatile these days.

And he drained Presence dry when he got angry.


Aaron's shown Mjolnir doing crazy stuff and possessing greater power than it has in decades. Busiek sure as hell wouldn't show the sentient storm within Mjolnir battling Odin himself evenly for aeons or Thor giving Odin pause as Jane did.

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He was gasping at the combined power of his own and the hammer.

Busiek already stated that Thor wasn't powerful enough to break the barrier.

Why would he gasp at his own power? It doesn't make sense, unless you think Mjolnir augmented Superman's own strength?

In any case, Thor's admitted his own brute strength is a drop in the ocean compared with Mjolnir. Superman's strength is a slightly bigger drop in the ocean.

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ICT / Re: Superman/Wonder Woman vs Thor/Hercules in JLA/Avengers
« on: September 17, 2018, 06:51:03 AM »
Simon wasn't dropped by Pagan, he was stunned and was coming back to fight when mjolnir thrown by Thor struck him and Simon wasn't even hurt.


He was overpowered far more easily than Pagan managed to overpower Thor. There was a considerable difference between Thor and Wonder Man, just as there was in the JLA/Avengers crossover.

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ICT / Re: Rhino vs Batman
« on: September 17, 2018, 06:48:16 AM »
I'd argue a more embarrassing defeat was when Spider-Man legitimately man-handled
him in a fit of rage. For being supposedly, Peter's strongest foe, he sure didn't look like
it in that fight.

The time when Spidey was going all evil and emo and nearly killed Electro in his civilian identity? Or there was the time when Spidey managed to catch Rhino's punch in a graveyard.

You get instances like those and then you get instances when Peter can't even *hurt* Rhino and where Rhino says he can barely feel Spidey's blows. Around the time when a second Rhino turned up and battled the original, Rhino was starting to recover some of his earlier prestige but I've seen a couple of truly shitty showings more recently.

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ICT / Re: If Captain America is 100 in strength...
« on: September 14, 2018, 06:13:46 AM »
Amygdala is a giant bodybuilder guy who's fought Batman a few times ... he's either peak human or superhuman but in any case, he's definitely stronger than Bats.

Surprised at some of the relatively low estimates for Ka-Zar ... even though he's technically not superhuman, he's snapped lamp-posts and crushed Klaw's metal sound projector with his bare hands

For me, Conan is definitely stronger than Cap, I'm just not sure how much stronger. Similarly, I think Sonja's just as strong as Cap, going on her top feats. In the current series alone, she's snapped heavy chains, choke-lifted big guys with one arm and just a couple of issues ago, she literally sliced a guy in half at the waist ... with one arm. Luke Lieberman, who owns the rights to Sonja and has written a fair few Sonja stories of his own, said that she's 'low-end meta' in strength.

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ICT / Re: Superman/Wonder Woman vs Thor/Hercules in JLA/Avengers
« on: September 14, 2018, 06:07:34 AM »
Then he didn't show that in writing.

You only have to look at the Pagan fight to see the difference between Wondy and Thor in Busiek's stories. Wondy was unquestionably the strongest Avenger after Thor but he went down to Pagan in short order, whereas Thor gave Pagan some serious trouble before getting dropped.

On Alvaro, Busiek even brought up the Handbook's 95 tons figure when he was talking about Simon's power level, seemingly unaware that Simon was upgraded to Class 100 in the '89 Update.

All of this took place at the time the crossover was released, long before you were posting, I think.

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ICT / Re: Superman/Wonder Woman vs Thor/Hercules in JLA/Avengers
« on: September 14, 2018, 06:01:09 AM »
The JLA/Avengers crossover was among the least infected crossovers when it came to politics IMO, but it was not necessarily entirely immune.
But it's still just one writer.

That's exactly it. Canon or no, it's one guy's opinion and Busiek's well-known for being acutely aware of Thor's limitations, to put it mildly.

By contrast, it's rumoured that the Supes/Thor fight in the planned 80s crossover would've ended in a stalemate, in spite of Superman's much greater power level at the time.

With that said, the crossover was handled by two guys who were hugely respected by both DC and Marvel and who were relatively unbiased. It's not like the first Marvel/DC crossover, where the writers must've felt like they were tapdancing on egg shells not to offend anyone.

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ICT / Re: Superman/Wonder Woman vs Thor/Hercules in JLA/Avengers
« on: September 14, 2018, 05:03:35 AM »
He had Cap straight up say Thor was the most powerful Avenger ever.


But he also said he didn't want to use Sersi on the Avengers because she was too powerful and could do anything with a wave of his hand. Somebody on Alvaro asked if he thought she was more powerful than Thor and he said 'yeah.'

Similarly, somebody asked him why he was using Warbird and not Binary and he said pretty much the same thing ... Binary was too powerful for the Avengers and was more powerful than Thor. He said Surfer was more powerful than Thor elsewhere.

Basically, Busiek sees Thor as one of the most powerful Earth-based heroes but doesn't see him as a peer of the true cosmic characters, whereas most writers do. He tried to justify the fact that Thor doesn't end most battles with a wave of Mjolnir by imposing limits on certain abilities Thor's displayed ... ignoring the facts that:

a) Thor lives for battle and doesn't WANT to necessarily win quickly
b) As a Viking god, Thor values strength above anything else and believes it's more honourable and manly to win a fight using his muscles. Stuff like opening portals he uses as a last resort and besides, that tactic has backfired on him eg. Juggernaut
c) Thor's not stupid but he's also not the smartest guy in the world and in the heat of battle, he often might simply FORGET to use his hammer as well as he might

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I disagree. Thor was actually destroying Ultron's secondary Adamantium bodies like nothing while entire Avengers team couldn't scratch it.


But he's still just smashing shit. Hercules could've done the same thing.

Busiek basically writes Thor as Hercules with Storm's powers. Under other writers, Mjolnir is closer to a GL ring, it can do practically anything.

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That was combined power of his and mjolnir.


It was as soon as he picked up the weapon, he was gasping at the power within it. He wasn't gasping at his own power.

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ICT / Re: Superman/Wonder Woman vs Thor/Hercules in JLA/Avengers
« on: September 13, 2018, 09:20:08 AM »
Superman was stated to be more powerful than entire Avengers team that jumped him and straight up more powerful than Thor by Busiek.





Take that as you can. Busiek straight up states that Thor+Avengers team couldn't beat Superman by raw power.

In that first quote, Busiek isn't saying that Supes alone is more powerful than the 4 or 5 Avengers who jumped him. He's saying he's more powerful than Thor alone i.e. he's directly comparing Thor's lone assault against that of Hercules and co.

That still seems really odd, given Superman's exclamation about Mjolnir. Of course, you could always claim that Marvel insisted Supes had to rave about Mjolnir to sweeten Thor's defeat but the whole JLA/Avengers project was infested with politics. That's why I think it's ridiculous to use it as evidence of anything. It was a 'quid pro quo' exercise and a popularity contest.

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