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Comic Forums => General Comic Discussion => Topic started by: Letters on May 29, 2018, 01:59:10 PM

Title: Comicsgate
Post by: Letters on May 29, 2018, 01:59:10 PM
Anyone have an opinion on the Diversity and Comics/ Jawbreakers Mark Waid / SJW Marvel controversy ?
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Dlbiininja on May 29, 2018, 03:46:40 PM
What's the problem?  If you're scared of change & other multi-faceted characters that don't match your skin tone.  Stick to things that don't have any diversity & or read only those characters if the should happen to have more diverse characters in the book. 

   The newer Gl's are a pretty good read as an example of expanding on a massive universe.  But, still keeping it close to home.  I'm like if you're more accepting of extra-terrastials than your fellow human with a different skin tone or gender then you've got major issues. 
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Letters on May 29, 2018, 04:44:21 PM
Ya I don't think you understand the issue here. The problem isn't diverse heroes but actual good stories and characters.

You also don't seem to be aware of what Waid did to an indie creators comicbook.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Dlbiininja on May 29, 2018, 11:11:11 PM
Ya I don't think you understand the issue here. The problem isn't diverse heroes but actual good stories and characters.

You also don't seem to be aware of what Waid did to an indie creators comicbook.

You mean not want to sell or publish a certain book.  If that's what your talking I've forgotten the specifics or getting it mixed up with a comic book shop that didn't want to publish or sell someone's book in their store.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Kallor on May 30, 2018, 12:32:08 AM
Ya I don't think you understand the issue here. The problem isn't diverse heroes but actual good stories and characters.

They call themselves "Diversity & Comics", but it isn't about diversity?

Quote
You also don't seem to be aware of what Waid did to an indie creators comicbook.

What did he do?
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Dlbiininja on May 30, 2018, 01:21:07 AM
Ya I don't think you understand the issue here. The problem isn't diverse heroes but actual good stories and characters.

They call themselves "Diversity & Comics", but it isn't about diversity?

Quote
You also don't seem to be aware of what Waid did to an indie creators comicbook.

What did he do?

He's probably on his way to the tinfoil gods to copy & paste a story about rectal probes & gummi bear sex games. 


@Letters
The thing about comicgate is it was totally about  everything I initially said.  It's an anti-diversity attitude & anti-sjw.  So, racists & guys who hate women & them some.  And it looks like Ethan van Sciver had helped contribute to this problem. 

https://www.thedailybeast.com/comicsgate-how-an-anti-diversity-harassment-campaign-in-comics-got-uglyand-profitable

https://www.buzzfeed.com/krishrach/comicsgate

Are you talking about what you think you're talking about?
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Not BAMF on May 30, 2018, 07:34:22 AM
NUTSHELL:

Some asshole MRA incel loser was making a book called Jawbreaker or whatever.

Some higher-name indy publisher who I'm too lazy to look up and have forgotten was going to publish it (EDIT: It was Antarctic Press, I looked it up after all).

Mark Waid tweeted that, essentially, the people behind Jawbreaker are assholes who have no business in the industry.

The indy publisher backed out of publishing Jawbreaker. Possibly for fear of getting on Marvel's bad side (Waid came off like he represented Marvel with his Tweet).

The Jawbreaker people decided to just self-publish with the crowdfunded support of the mouth-breathers who love Diversity & Comics.

Some comic shops openly said they weren't going to carry the book because of the controversy. Possibly, again, for fear of getting on Marvel's bad side.

Aforementioned mouth-breathers attacked the shops that announced they would not carry it, both online (giving bad reviews) and physically (breaking into and vandalizing and robbing).
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Dlbiininja on May 30, 2018, 10:17:05 AM
@NB.  Thanks.  I actually saw that.  Thought it was totally either or of what I said the 3rd time.  When it's actually just my entire 3rd response.  I saw that going down and just blew it aside.  And Yea, this Meyer shit is totally spill over from his previous shit.  Which goes back to my 4th post.  So, it's all of this shit, Letters.  This is Meyer's anti-sjw, anti-diverstity agenda.

http://boundingintocomics.com/2018/05/14/antarctic-press-explains-the-real-reason-why-they-dropped-diversity-comics-jawbreakers-lost-souls/
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Letters on May 30, 2018, 11:40:07 AM
Ya I don't think you understand the issue here. The problem isn't diverse heroes but actual good stories and characters.

They call themselves "Diversity & Comics", but it isn't about diversity?

Quote
You also don't seem to be aware of what Waid did to an indie creators comicbook.

What did he do?

He's probably on his way to the tinfoil gods to copy & paste a story about rectal probes & gummi bear sex games. 


@Letters
The thing about comicgate is it was totally about  everything I initially said.  It's an anti-diversity attitude & anti-sjw.  So, racists & guys who hate women & them some.  And it looks like Ethan van Sciver had helped contribute to this problem. 

https://www.thedailybeast.com/comicsgate-how-an-anti-diversity-harassment-campaign-in-comics-got-uglyand-profitable

https://www.buzzfeed.com/krishrach/comicsgate

Are you talking about what you think you're talking about?

If you actually listen to some of these so called anti diversity people you'll see this is not the case. It's actually anti bad comics and anti bad characters is what they are talking about, despite what your biased articles are reporting. These people aren't racist or anti women. It's actually the sjw's who are racist and bigoted.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Not BAMF on May 30, 2018, 12:14:32 PM
It's actually not. But actually, it's actually possible that if you actually say "actually" some more it might actually become actually true.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Letters on May 30, 2018, 01:14:27 PM
So you haven't listened to these people's arguments either.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: NeoGreenLantern on May 30, 2018, 03:41:04 PM
How much of the Marvel stuff have you read?
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: NeoGreenLantern on May 30, 2018, 03:52:20 PM
Sidenote: Jon Malin is an awful artist and I'm happy any project he's involved in gets sunk.

2nd Sidenote: I'm enjoying all the crazy people coming at Busiek on twitter over this. One dude is going off about him being a fake comic fan because he can't show him a Savage Dragon cover he's never seen... or something.

https://twitter.com/VetArtTherapy/status/1001604512321335296
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Dlbiininja on May 30, 2018, 04:03:40 PM
Sidenote: Jon Malin is an awful artist and I'm happy any project he's involved in gets sunk.

2nd Sidenote: I'm enjoying all the crazy people coming at Busiek on twitter over this. One dude is going off about him being a fake comic fan because he can't show him a Savage Dragon cover he's never seen... or something.

https://twitter.com/VetArtTherapy/status/1001604512321335296

Lol! I saw that earlier.  Dude's a nutsack.  I don't think that Art therapy is going well. 
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Not BAMF on May 30, 2018, 04:32:18 PM
Sidenote: Jon Malin is an awful artist and I'm happy any project he's involved in gets sunk.

2nd Sidenote: I'm enjoying all the crazy people coming at Busiek on twitter over this. One dude is going off about him being a fake comic fan because he can't show him a Savage Dragon cover he's never seen... or something.

https://twitter.com/VetArtTherapy/status/1001604512321335296

Haha, Christ. What is that guy even on about? Kurt is joking about Superman's secret identity and he comes in all frothing at the mouth.

He's probably mad he can't break into and vandalize Kurt's house like he probably does to the local comic shops that won't sell the MRA drek he wants to read.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Letters on May 30, 2018, 07:20:43 PM
How much of the Marvel stuff have you read?

I've never read much of marvel. But I have watched some reviews of current sjw marvel books and they seem like trash. Don't take my word for it, just look at the sales.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: NeoGreenLantern on May 30, 2018, 07:27:32 PM
I don't need to take your word for it since I actually read comics and not just listen talking to heads about comics.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Letters on May 30, 2018, 07:32:01 PM
What are some of your favorite marvel books right now?
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: NeoGreenLantern on May 30, 2018, 08:08:23 PM
Champions, Runaways, Avengers, Amazing Spider-Man
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Letters on May 30, 2018, 08:19:31 PM
Champions, Runaways, Avengers, Amazing Spider-Man

So no ms marvel, captain marvel, iron man, thor, ice man, or America I see. These are marvels flag ship diversity books and you don't even like them, much less buy them. Is it because you're racist or a woman hater? Why don't you like these books I mentioned?
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: NeoGreenLantern on May 30, 2018, 08:34:28 PM
I read those too. You asked me what my favorite books are. The reason I picked 3 teams books is because most of those characters show up on either Champions or Avengers.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Letters on May 30, 2018, 09:10:02 PM
If that's true you're one of the few who seems to be supporting sjw marvel.

So, question, if long time fans don't like those titled I mentioned is it because they are racist woman haters? Or is it because the don't like the characters and stories? Iyo of course
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: NeoGreenLantern on May 30, 2018, 09:58:08 PM
I don't know. The only person I talk to about comics outside of this board is my wife. The whole Comicsgate thing seems just as pointless as gamergate though.

I also wouldn't say I support Marvel or DC either seeing how, even though I read like everything they produce, I'm not actually paying for them. Comics have become waaaay too expensive of a hobby.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Letters on May 30, 2018, 10:14:06 PM
Oh, so you don't even support the comics you like and read. Smh. Typical sjw's
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: NeoGreenLantern on May 30, 2018, 10:18:42 PM
Not marvel and dc. They both have an essential flaw that has nothing to do with any SJW agenda. You can't just read one or two comics. Everything is a crossover or event so you have to read more than its worth tossing money down on.

Instead I use my money to support comics that are self contained like TMNT and Walking Dead.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Letters on May 30, 2018, 10:51:27 PM
This is part of the problem with you socialists. You don't know how economy and industry work. Marvel comics sales is the health of the industry. Always has been. DC as well but less so. When sales are up, there is creativity, innovation and competition. Comic stores can pay rent. Writers and artists and staff make money. Comic fans have great comics. Everything is great.

When sales are down, like they are now, comic shops close, people lose their jobs, sooner than you think there will be no place to sell comics to the public. You can't download comics for free anymore. There will be no more comics industry if this continues.

And why? Because instead of good stories and compelling characters we have agenda driven stories, and political driven characters. And the sales reflect that.

If you want another example look at Star wars with last jedi and now Solo, another political and agenda driven franchise gone to shit.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: NeoGreenLantern on May 30, 2018, 11:13:46 PM
So you want me to buy the comics that you think aren't good for the industry?
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Kallor on May 30, 2018, 11:17:40 PM
Hahaha
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Dlbiininja on May 30, 2018, 11:19:16 PM
If that's true you're one of the few who seems to be supporting sjw marvel.

So, question, if long time fans don't like those titled I mentioned is it because they are racist woman haters? Or is it because the don't like the characters and stories? Iyo of course

You're an imbecile. You said it's not about diversity/sjw and yet here you are defending the exact bullshit which started comicsgate.  I've read Riri as Iron man and it's a pretty damn good book same as Thor with Jane Foster.  Why should the Hammer be passed only to blonde an blue-eyed characters white men?  The exception being better Ray bill that I can think of off the Top of my head.  Someone worthy should honestly potentially be anyone.  Not just because someone who makes someone feel comfortable or fits inside of their mental box.  And as for the women.  We have women who are in better physical condition than a lot of dudes.  If that's something their paltry egos are afraid of them they should just stick to the shit that makes them feel comfortable.  Comics from the 40 and 50's.  The good ol days.  Because, the world is changing and we should have no problem leaving dead weight and outdated ideas behind that aren't beneficial to society. 
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Letters on May 30, 2018, 11:25:20 PM
So you want me to buy the comics that you think aren't good for the industry?

If you genuinely like what's happening at marvel and want it to continue then yes, you should be buying what you want to read. And what Marvel and others need to do is make comics that people want to buy. Do you see how this works yet?
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: NeoGreenLantern on May 30, 2018, 11:26:21 PM
Yeah but I just explained what I don't like about marvel and why I won't buy their comics.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Dlbiininja on May 30, 2018, 11:28:14 PM
This is part of the problem with you socialists. You don't know how economy and industry work. Marvel comics sales is the health of the industry. Always has been. DC as well but less so. When sales are up, there is creativity, innovation and competition. Comic stores can pay rent. Writers and artists and staff make money. Comic fans have great comics. Everything is great.

When sales are down, like they are now, comic shops close, people lose their jobs, sooner than you think there will be no place to sell comics to the public. You can't download comics for free anymore. There will be no more comics industry if this continues.

And why? Because instead of good stories and compelling characters we have agenda driven stories, and political driven characters. And the sales reflect that.

If you want another example look at Star wars with last jedi and now Solo, another political and agenda driven franchise gone to shit.

This is the problem with you dictatorist who think they know what's best for others with no quantifiable evidence or proof to back it up.  You go with shit you make up and fail to provide evidence to support it.  You assume to know what others do and do not know.  When the majority of us clearly understand the capitalistic nature of our country.  But, your silent on the socialist hand outs that cater to large corporate businesses that fail to give many Americans full time jobs and benes. 

Don't forget Star Wars period Leia was one of the strongest characters in that series.  I'm guessing it's those bitch made bastards filling tea cups with their tears nowadays as they whine now.   And just what was the agenda of Solo?  I'll look forward this verifiable proof. 
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Letters on May 30, 2018, 11:57:22 PM
If that's true you're one of the few who seems to be supporting sjw marvel.

So, question, if long time fans don't like those titled I mentioned is it because they are racist woman haters? Or is it because the don't like the characters and stories? Iyo of course

You're an imbecile. You said it's not about diversity/sjw and yet here you are defending the exact bullshit which started comicsgate.  I've read Riri as Iron man and it's a pretty damn good book same as Thor with Jane Foster.  Why should the Hammer be passed only to blonde an blue-eyed characters white men?  The exception being better Ray bill that I can think of off the Top of my head.  Someone worthy should honestly potentially be anyone.  Not just because someone who makes someone feel comfortable or fits inside of their mental box.  And as for the women.  We have women who are in better physical condition than a lot of dudes.  If that's something their paltry egos are afraid of them they should just stick to the shit that makes them feel comfortable.  Comics from the 40 and 50's.  The good ol days.  Because, the world is changing and we should have no problem leaving dead weight and outdated ideas behind that aren't beneficial to society.

Jane Thor was a pretty good book huh? And Riri? Well, she was pretty good too. And fake Wolverine, is so cool. And Cho Hulk was awesome. And they were all so cool and awesome and pretty good that they all got replaced with their originals.

Why do you think that is? Maybe their sales have something to do with it? Then begs the question, why are sales so low? Why aren't people buying these comics?

And lol @ there are a lot of women tougher than dudes or whatever the fuck you just said.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Dlbiininja on May 31, 2018, 12:22:47 AM
If that's true you're one of the few who seems to be supporting sjw marvel.

So, question, if long time fans don't like those titled I mentioned is it because they are racist woman haters? Or is it because the don't like the characters and stories? Iyo of course

You're an imbecile. You said it's not about diversity/sjw and yet here you are defending the exact bullshit which started comicsgate.  I've read Riri as Iron man and it's a pretty damn good book same as Thor with Jane Foster.  Why should the Hammer be passed only to blonde an blue-eyed characters white men?  The exception being better Ray bill that I can think of off the Top of my head.  Someone worthy should honestly potentially be anyone.  Not just because someone who makes someone feel comfortable or fits inside of their mental box.  And as for the women.  We have women who are in better physical condition than a lot of dudes.  If that's something their paltry egos are afraid of them they should just stick to the shit that makes them feel comfortable.  Comics from the 40 and 50's.  The good ol days.  Because, the world is changing and we should have no problem leaving dead weight and outdated ideas behind that aren't beneficial to society.

Jane Thor was a pretty good book huh? And Riri? Well, she was pretty good too. And fake Wolverine, is so cool. And Cho Hulk was awesome. And they were all so cool and awesome and pretty good that they all got replaced with their originals.

Why do you think that is? Maybe their sales have something to do with it? Then begs the question, why are sales so low? Why aren't people buying these comics?

And lol @ there are a lot of women tougher than dudes or whatever the fuck you just said.


Funny, How many times has Thor or other prime characters series been dropped or rebooted due to shitty sales?  I clearly recall a big problem with sales in the late '90s.  Care to answer that that one?  Why have they had to do reboots for the flagship characters if they're guaranteed to make such good sales and always have top notch stories.  Even superman and mm any of the other top DC books have been botched.  Why not give use the answer to all of that before you know diversity and sjws came into being.  Since, you know it all.  We'll need that proof know it all.  And Laura as Wolverine was definitely a better average book.  Hell, how many reboots did Logan have now that I think about it.

And I you need to read exactly what I said. Don't try to twist it.  But, now that you mention it.  There's tougher women nowadays. Maybe, those emasculated man babies should spend time in a gym or self-defense class and grow some nuts instead of crying behind a keyboard and waxing their manicured mustaches. 
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Letters on May 31, 2018, 12:31:44 AM
Yeah but I just explained what I don't like about marvel and why I won't buy their comics.

So now Marvel should make comics that people want to buy. Don't you think?
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: XerxesTWD on May 31, 2018, 11:09:36 AM
This is part of the problem with you socialists. You don't know how economy and industry work. Marvel comics sales is the health of the industry. Always has been. DC as well but less so. When sales are up, there is creativity, innovation and competition. Comic stores can pay rent. Writers and artists and staff make money. Comic fans have great comics. Everything is great.

When sales are down, like they are now, comic shops close, people lose their jobs, sooner than you think there will be no place to sell comics to the public. You can't download comics for free anymore. There will be no more comics industry if this continues.

And why? Because instead of good stories and compelling characters we have agenda driven stories, and political driven characters. And the sales reflect that.

If you want another example look at Star wars with last jedi and now Solo, another political and agenda driven franchise gone to shit.
Wow! You just can't seem to get ANYTHING correct these days. Sad!
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Not BAMF on May 31, 2018, 11:20:39 AM
It's almost as if Marvel and DC has a MYRIAD of issues dating back many years, many of which are tied to their physical format of a print medium and have little to do with actual content in any regard, and that the combination of many of these is why sales are low. Wow, it seems like anyone with two brain cells to rub together who is capable of looking at complete pictures would be able to understand that.

But no, no matter what Neo provides as his reasoning for not buying Marvel/DC books, if only all their characters were straight, white men, he would be buyin'!
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: NeoGreenLantern on May 31, 2018, 12:19:23 PM
You have to understand, letters is a true comic fan. You can tell by the way he doesn't read comics.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Letters on May 31, 2018, 01:19:27 PM
It's almost as if Marvel and DC has a MYRIAD of issues dating back many years, many of which are tied to their physical format of a print medium and have little to do with actual content in any regard, and that the combination of many of these is why sales are low. Wow, it seems like anyone with two brain cells to rub together who is capable of looking at complete pictures would be able to understand that.

But no, no matter what Neo provides as his reasoning for not buying Marvel/DC books, if only all their characters were straight, white men, he would be buyin'!

The problem with the comics industry is the political saturation in the medium. Most comic fans don't want that. They want good stories and good characters and good art.

I never said anything about straight white men in this thread. Straight white men are not the only good characters in comicbooks. You seem to have quite a dislike for them tho. Why is that?
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Letters on May 31, 2018, 01:21:18 PM
This is part of the problem with you socialists. You don't know how economy and industry work. Marvel comics sales is the health of the industry. Always has been. DC as well but less so. When sales are up, there is creativity, innovation and competition. Comic stores can pay rent. Writers and artists and staff make money. Comic fans have great comics. Everything is great.

When sales are down, like they are now, comic shops close, people lose their jobs, sooner than you think there will be no place to sell comics to the public. You can't download comics for free anymore. There will be no more comics industry if this continues.

And why? Because instead of good stories and compelling characters we have agenda driven stories, and political driven characters. And the sales reflect that.

If you want another example look at Star wars with last jedi and now Solo, another political and agenda driven franchise gone to shit.
Wow! You just can't seem to get ANYTHING correct these days. Sad!

I guess you must think that comic stores can pay rent with twitter likes instead of money.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Not BAMF on May 31, 2018, 01:36:40 PM
It's almost as if Marvel and DC has a MYRIAD of issues dating back many years, many of which are tied to their physical format of a print medium and have little to do with actual content in any regard, and that the combination of many of these is why sales are low. Wow, it seems like anyone with two brain cells to rub together who is capable of looking at complete pictures would be able to understand that.

But no, no matter what Neo provides as his reasoning for not buying Marvel/DC books, if only all their characters were straight, white men, he would be buyin'!

The problem with the comics industry is the political saturation in the medium.

You are factually wrong there. But you know that.

And I know better than to engage with you at length because you are strictly here to troll and be a juvenile idiot. So keep playing with Neo and Xerxes and the folks that enjoy falling for your tired ass shtick. I'm out.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Letters on May 31, 2018, 01:54:33 PM
Lol. Too scared to have an actual debate or discussion. Typical sjw trash. I see you dodged my question about straight white men tho. I suppose that makes you racist, sexist, AND heterophobic.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Dlbiininja on May 31, 2018, 02:57:22 PM
It's almost as if Marvel and DC has a MYRIAD of issues dating back many years, many of which are tied to their physical format of a print medium and have little to do with actual content in any regard, and that the combination of many of these is why sales are low. Wow, it seems like anyone with two brain cells to rub together who is capable of looking at complete pictures would be able to understand that.

But no, no matter what Neo provides as his reasoning for not buying Marvel/DC books, if only all their characters were straight, white men, he would be buyin'!

The problem with the comics industry is the political saturation in the medium. Most comic fans don't want that. They want good stories and good characters and good art.

I never said anything about straight white men in this thread. Straight white men are not the only good characters in comicbooks. You seem to have quite a dislike for them tho. Why is that?

 ;D ;D ;D 
But, comics have always had a political slant to them or a controversial slant when it's been necessary.  Batman had an excellent story regarding child trafficking, Caps and other early marvel comics were fucking propaganda tools and so were Dc heroes.  And despite you're not saying anything regarding "straight white men."  You're argument and their argument is against diversity and Sjw's everything that "straight white males" seem to  be intimidated by for no reason other than their scared of change.  Maybe, they're just scared to be seen as the closeted men they really are, while touting their religious values and demeaning others.  Because, that's what you're defending.  It all started with those same "straight white males" attacking women and the concept of diversity.  Then later their caught in some gay sex fiesta with their closes friend.  If you want to suck a dick stop fighting your personal desires and gobble on your best friends balls.  That's your and their's choice to pursue instead of staying trapped in a marriage or pretending that you really like women.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: NeoGreenLantern on May 31, 2018, 02:59:43 PM
I'm trying to remember? What was the political message in Solo? We need better gun control because Han will always shoot first?
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Dlbiininja on May 31, 2018, 03:06:15 PM
I'm trying to remember? What was the political message in Solo? We need better gun control because Han will always shoot first?

Probably, something else he imagined again.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Rufio on May 31, 2018, 03:25:50 PM
Just commenting on Waid:

Based on Mark Waid’s own words, he may’ve committed several torts. It depends on whether he made false statements and whether he called the publisher with the intent of inducing the publisher to cancel publication.

This YouTube points to some evidence of Waid’s actions and explains the law decently:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=biTqUvz6ke8
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: HalloweenJack on May 31, 2018, 07:51:29 PM
damn there's lazy trolling in this thread.

Not you Rufio. Just clarifying since I'm posting right after you.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: MTL76 on May 31, 2018, 09:15:32 PM
D&C started out as a critic of several trends in (primarily) Marvel comics: replacement of long-standing heroes with new characters, increased politicization/identity politics in stories, and comic book pros being stand-offish with fans who didn't agree with their politics. I've listened to some of his videos, though not any recent ones. Sometimes he's on point (there have been a LOT of awful Marvel comics in the last few years), sometimes he's obviously spoiling for a fight.

He's certainly not the only person involved in Comicsgate but he's become the most popular one. As time has gone on he's become almost as prickly as the pros he's criticizing.

The Jawbreakers issue is a good example. It seems like there were some comic book shops who disagree with his politics/personality who said they wouldn't be carrying it in a private chat room conversation that was linked to D&C. That's their right to do so, just as it's his right to criticize them in general. But the way he did so was extremely confrontational, calling attention to the individual stores in public.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Rufio on May 31, 2018, 09:47:34 PM
Actually, if the retailers all agreed: (1) not to carry his comic, and (2) to “drag and dunk” any publisher who would print it, that’s probably not their right. It’s an illegal agreement to restrain trade. Go to the video I linked at the 24:00 mark.

I’m no antitrust expert, but I don’t believe you’re off the hook for conspiring to restrain competition just because you’re motivated by political (not economic) reasons.

Likewise, if Waid told the publisher that D&C publicized the personal phone numbers of store employees, or told people to harass stores, he better not have been misstating the facts. If those statements were factually incorrect, he’s exposed himself to civil tort claims.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Not BAMF on May 31, 2018, 09:54:44 PM
Is it not also a crime to break into, rob, and vandalize a store if it doesn't sell books you want? And to incite people who follow you to do so?
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: MTL76 on May 31, 2018, 10:03:57 PM
Is it not also a crime to break into, rob, and vandalize a store if it doesn't sell books you want? And to incite people who follow you to do so?

Come on, there's no proof of that. Don't be ridiculous.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Rufio on May 31, 2018, 10:09:22 PM
Is it not also a crime to break into, rob, and vandalize a store if it doesn't sell books you want? And to incite people who follow you to do so?

It depends on how you define “incitement.” If you have evidence of him telling people near the stores to rob or vandalize them, then my understanding is yes, it’s illlegal.

However, he publicly told people not to harass the comic stores. The mere fact that he publicized the stores’ names and their business contact information does not equate to encouraging robbery or vandalism.

His intent may’ve just been to get people to peacefully show support and petition the stores to carry his book. That is legal. You might find it dickish or annoying, but it’s not legally actionable. An agreement to prevent a competitor from making its way to the shelves is illegal. An agreement to ask a store to carry a book is not.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: therock on May 31, 2018, 10:13:39 PM
Is it not also a crime to break into, rob, and vandalize a store if it doesn't sell books you want? And to incite people who follow you to do so?

It depends on how you define “incitement.” If you have evidence of him telling people near the stores to rob or vandalize them, then my understanding is yes, it’s illlegal.

However, he publicly told people not to harass the comic stores. The mere fact that he publicized the stores’ names and their business contact information does not equate to encouraging robbery or vandalism.

His intent may’ve just been to get people to peacefully show support and petition the stores to carry his book. That is legal. You might find it dickish or annoying, but it’s not legally actionable. An agreement to prevent a competitor from making its way to the shelves is illegal. An agreement to ask a store to carry a book is not.

What if he did neither

And just simple bad mouth them. Said they were going at him. And then publish their store name and just let the chips fall where they may, without saying attack them or Dont attack them
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Rufio on May 31, 2018, 10:24:27 PM
Is it not also a crime to break into, rob, and vandalize a store if it doesn't sell books you want? And to incite people who follow you to do so?

It depends on how you define “incitement.” If you have evidence of him telling people near the stores to rob or vandalize them, then my understanding is yes, it’s illlegal.

However, he publicly told people not to harass the comic stores. The mere fact that he publicized the stores’ names and their business contact information does not equate to encouraging robbery or vandalism.

His intent may’ve just been to get people to peacefully show support and petition the stores to carry his book. That is legal. You might find it dickish or annoying, but it’s not legally actionable. An agreement to prevent a competitor from making its way to the shelves is illegal. An agreement to ask a store to carry a book is not.

What if he did neither

And just simple bad mouth them. Said they were going at him. And then publish their store name and just let the chips fall where they may, without saying attack them or Dont attack them

That’s probably protected by the First Amendment.

“These later decisions have fashioned the principle that the constitutional guarantees of free speech and free press do not permit a State to forbid or proscribe advocacy of the use of force or of law violation except where such advocacy is directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action.”

https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/395/444/case.html

Generally, speech has to be directed to produce *imminent* crimes, not possible future crimes. And it has to be the speaker’s intent to produce imminent crimes.

The fact that he’s mentioning specific stores might change things, especially if he were specifically talking to people who live near those comic shops (rather than Twitter in general). However, his intent would still have to be to cause them imminent harm or property damage.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: therock on June 01, 2018, 12:49:10 AM
Well that bold statment does say if its LIKELY to produce an violent action not if it guaranteed to produce a violent action.

So talking about a specific store and bad mouthing it, then giving said store adress can be argued doesnt have the store best interest in mind. If not illegal...its really a dick move

I be like if your beefing with someone online. Just really tearing into someone to what ever fanbase you have and you just happen to post there name, Home adress, and Number. You might least be open for a civil law suit which has a differnet libailliy

Now maybe the law gets you out of it, cant say for sure.  But it still be a massive asshole thing to do.  Even if I said "But hey guys wouldnt dream of wanting them be harrasing them...but how to reach them in person. So what ever legal argument is correct here, hard not to say this guy sounds like a doucebag.

Hell even we try not put people personal info even it our most heated stuff.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: therock on June 01, 2018, 01:16:26 AM
As diversity in comics

They do seem oddly obssessed when ever they try to make thing diverse with multiple video after video harping on it. Sometimes it justified. America is truly garbage. Other times seem like they looking for reasons to get mad so they can find reasons to continue the channel

Like was talking to a friend bitching about there no white charactet left in marvel. Which I dont know...its seems pretty white still.  Also bitching it just minorities in Star war. Now I dont know why they started this conversation. My guess is I much have the frienliest black guy face in the world. But some reason people choose to have this conversation in person


So I said what about about Ray. Then he said he meant white males. Then I go what about Poe, Kyo, there a fucking Solo movie, and Obi wan movie coming out

Or heard someone say...you know A woman couldnt beat big strong guys like that. And Im like yea and Racoons cant talk..what the fuck your point

It seem people like Diverity in Coimics is there pretend like they dont know how comics work. Like when people got the panties in a bunch..over hydra.  Saying we are tearing down our heroes. Like people thought Captian American really going to remain a nazi..and that wasnt due to some cosmic cube shenagins. Or Thor would really be a chick a whole time

And they say Jam down her throat. Every few years some heroes gets Jams down our throats. Remember the blood pack..that produce some Failed heroes. But Hitman came out of it.  Or when Green lantern was replace with some Angry black due for a bit...till the even some of his character out. Which made him a good charcter on the toon

Or Milistone. That failed. But you got Static out of it a few good issues

or what they doing now with batman metal...spins off that will mostly shit the bed..but you will get a character or two that sticks around

It worst when they talk about Xmen becoming SJW.  Xmen was the ORIGINAL SJW team. Thats kind of their thing.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Rufio on June 01, 2018, 01:34:09 AM
Well that bold statment does say if its LIKELY to produce an violent action not if it guaranteed to produce a violent action.

So talking about a specific store and bad mouthing it, then giving said store adress can be argued doesnt have the store best interest in mind. If not illegal...its really a dick move

I be like if your beefing with someone online. Just really tearing into someone to what ever fanbase you have and you just happen to post there name, Home adress, and Number. You might least be open for a civil law suit which has a differnet libailliy

Now maybe the law gets you out of it, cant say for sure.  But it still be a massive asshole thing to do.  Even if I said "But hey guys wouldnt dream of wanting them be harrasing them...but how to reach them in person. So what ever legal argument is correct here, hard not to say this guy sounds like a doucebag.

Hell even we try not put people personal info even it our most heated stuff.

You're overlooking the words "directed" and "imminent." Directed means intentional. Imminent means the harm is clear and present, e.g., there's a group of gang members with baseball bats right in front of you and you say that someone in their immediate vicinity stole their money. If you have some vague sense that a danger is possible, that's not enough.

The speaker must be "directing" (i.e., intentionally calling for) immediate harm AND immediate harm must be likely.


I could give you a lengthy legal history lesson, but instead I'll recommend former ACLU president Nadine Strossen's recent book:

https://www.amazon.com/HATE-Should-Resist-Censorship-Inalienable/dp/0190859121

She covers the development and modern interpretation of this test pretty well.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Letters on June 01, 2018, 02:17:12 AM
It's almost as if Marvel and DC has a MYRIAD of issues dating back many years, many of which are tied to their physical format of a print medium and have little to do with actual content in any regard, and that the combination of many of these is why sales are low. Wow, it seems like anyone with two brain cells to rub together who is capable of looking at complete pictures would be able to understand that.

But no, no matter what Neo provides as his reasoning for not buying Marvel/DC books, if only all their characters were straight, white men, he would be buyin'!

The problem with the comics industry is the political saturation in the medium. Most comic fans don't want that. They want good stories and good characters and good art.

I never said anything about straight white men in this thread. Straight white men are not the only good characters in comicbooks. You seem to have quite a dislike for them tho. Why is that?

 ;D ;D ;D 
But, comics have always had a political slant to them or a controversial slant when it's been necessary.  Batman had an excellent story regarding child trafficking, Caps and other early marvel comics were fucking propaganda tools and so were Dc heroes.  And despite you're not saying anything regarding "straight white men."  You're argument and their argument is against diversity and Sjw's everything that "straight white males" seem to  be intimidated by for no reason other than their scared of change.  Maybe, they're just scared to be seen as the closeted men they really are, while touting their religious values and demeaning others.  Because, that's what you're defending.  It all started with those same "straight white males" attacking women and the concept of diversity.  Then later their caught in some gay sex fiesta with their closes friend.  If you want to suck a dick stop fighting your personal desires and gobble on your best friends balls.  That's your and their's choice to pursue instead of staying trapped in a marriage or pretending that you really like women.

There have been political comics in the past. It's happened during times of war and has been subtle other times. Like the X-men for example.

Right now it's quite apparent and over bearing for long time comic fans, the base of which, are straight white men. They and other people don't like being demonized at every turn based on their race gender and sexual orientation. The very thing the sjw and diversity crowd claim to be fighting against, is the very thing you are doing as you have just demonstrated.

According to you, straight white men are anti diversity when that's not true. The most popular and best selling time of the X-Men was when Storm was the leader of the team. Cassandra Cain has always been hugely popular. Jon Stewart was more popular than Hal Jordan for a time. Black Panther and Blade have been hugely popular for decades. Are you saying there are no straight white men who like these characters? 

Diversity isn't the problem. It's the racist bigoted heterophobic white demonizing agenda of the sjw's, which you whole heartedly subscribe to since your opinion of straight white men is that they are scared closet homosexuals who attack women and have gay orgies with their friends. And you think this not because of the individuals moral fiber, bu instead based on their race, gender, and sexual orientation, proving you are a racist, sexist, heterophobic bigot; the very thing you claim to be against.

How dumb do you feel right now?
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Rufio on June 01, 2018, 02:17:50 AM
As diversity in comics

They do seem oddly obssessed when ever they try to make thing diverse with multiple video after video harping on it. Sometimes it justified. America is truly garbage. Other times seem like they looking for reasons to get mad so they can find reasons to continue the channel

Like was talking to a friend bitching about there no white charactet left in marvel. Which I dont know...its seems pretty white still.  Also bitching it just minorities in Star war. Now I dont know why they started this conversation. My guess is I much have the frienliest black guy face in the world. But some reason people choose to have this conversation in person


So I said what about about Ray. Then he said he meant white males. Then I go what about Poe, Kyo, there a fucking Solo movie, and Obi wan movie coming out

Or heard someone say...you know A woman couldnt beat big strong guys like that. And Im like yea and Racoons cant talk..what the fuck your point

It seem people like Diverity in Coimics is there pretend like they dont know how comics work. Like when people got the panties in a bunch..over hydra.  Saying we are tearing down our heroes. Like people thought Captian American really going to remain a nazi..and that wasnt due to some cosmic cube shenagins. Or Thor would really be a chick a whole time

And they say Jam down her throat. Every few years some heroes gets Jams down our throats. Remember the blood pack..that produce some Failed heroes. But Hitman came out of it.  Or when Green lantern was replace with some Angry black due for a bit...till the even some of his character out. Which made him a good charcter on the toon

Or Milistone. That failed. But you got Static out of it a few good issues

or what they doing now with batman metal...spins off that will mostly shit the bed..but you will get a character or two that sticks around

It worst when they talk about Xmen becoming SJW.  Xmen was the ORIGINAL SJW team. Thats kind of their thing.

None of the examples you mention involved a coordinated replacement of several iconic characters all at once. You're talking about individual gimmicks that came one at a time and were driven by entertainment value, not ideology. That doesn't compare to Hulk, Wolverine, Thor, Captain America, Iron Man, etc. all being replaced at the same time for purely ideological reasons.

The X-Men were not SJWs. They were a metaphor for the civil rights movement, which was instrumental in expanding free speech and individual rights. Like civil rights leaders, the X-Men championed viewing every human and mutant as an individual. They were opposed to Magneto, who judged all humans as guilty oppressors. "SJWs" don't champion free speech and debate, nor do they advocate viewing people as individuals. They see people as members of groups, and those groups are always oppressors or the oppressed. Their ideology is closer to Magneto than to Xavier.

The term "SJW" doesn't mean leftist or advocate of equal rights. It means a postmodernist-influenced peddler of identity politics. Someone who believes that truth is relative, that there is no need to make logical arguments because logic itself is a heteropatriarchical social construct, etc.

Noam Chomsky is the most respected left wing intellectual of the past 100 years. He isn't an SJW. He thinks the ideology that underlies it--postmodernism--is nonsense. I agree with him:

http://bactra.org/chomsky-on-postmodernism.html

http://www.openculture.com/2018/02/noam-chomsky-explains-whats-wrong-with-postmodern-philosophy-french-intellectuals.html

In current Marvel, the forced politics people are annoyed by are things like Ta Nehisi Coates using Black Panther to promote what looks like segregationist opinions (his desire to keep white people out of Harlem). Or the Angela issue where the writer threw modern "misogynist" buzzwords in the mouth of Thor's grandfather. Characters from "majority" groups are portrayed as evil or incompetent--and it's painfully obvious that this is done intentionally, as a matter of ideology. The stories are being driven by ideology, not entertainment value. Artists suddenly feel the need to draw male characters as skinnier and more feminine, while making a large number of female characters more masculine in appearance. And vastly reducing the curve of female characters.

If just some of these changes occurred in a few titles, far less people would be turned off by it. If the politics were nuanced and portrayed more than one side--think Watchmen, or even Civil War--again, few would have an issue. The problem is that, in addition to boring writing, a goofy ideology has taken over most of the Marvel titles all at once.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: therock on June 01, 2018, 03:31:47 AM
As diversity in comics

They do seem oddly obssessed when ever they try to make thing diverse with multiple video after video harping on it. Sometimes it justified. America is truly garbage. Other times seem like they looking for reasons to get mad so they can find reasons to continue the channel

Like was talking to a friend bitching about there no white charactet left in marvel. Which I dont know...its seems pretty white still.  Also bitching it just minorities in Star war. Now I dont know why they started this conversation. My guess is I much have the frienliest black guy face in the world. But some reason people choose to have this conversation in person


So I said what about about Ray. Then he said he meant white males. Then I go what about Poe, Kyo, there a fucking Solo movie, and Obi wan movie coming out

Or heard someone say...you know A woman couldnt beat big strong guys like that. And Im like yea and Racoons cant talk..what the fuck your point

It seem people like Diverity in Coimics is there pretend like they dont know how comics work. Like when people got the panties in a bunch..over hydra.  Saying we are tearing down our heroes. Like people thought Captian American really going to remain a nazi..and that wasnt due to some cosmic cube shenagins. Or Thor would really be a chick a whole time

And they say Jam down her throat. Every few years some heroes gets Jams down our throats. Remember the blood pack..that produce some Failed heroes. But Hitman came out of it.  Or when Green lantern was replace with some Angry black due for a bit...till the even some of his character out. Which made him a good charcter on the toon

Or Milistone. That failed. But you got Static out of it a few good issues

or what they doing now with batman metal...spins off that will mostly shit the bed..but you will get a character or two that sticks around

It worst when they talk about Xmen becoming SJW.  Xmen was the ORIGINAL SJW team. Thats kind of their thing.

None of the examples you mention involved a coordinated replacement of several iconic characters all at once. You're talking about individual gimmicks that came one at a time and were driven by entertainment value, not ideology. That doesn't compare to Hulk, Wolverine, Thor, Captain America, Iron Man, etc. all being replaced at the same time for purely ideological reasons.

The X-Men were not SJWs. They were a metaphor for the civil rights movement, which was instrumental in expanding free speech and individual rights. Like civil rights leaders, the X-Men championed viewing every human and mutant as an individual. They were opposed to Magneto, who judged all humans as guilty oppressors. "SJWs" don't champion free speech and debate, nor do they advocate viewing people as individuals. They see people as members of groups, and those groups are always oppressors or the oppressed. Their ideology is closer to Magneto than to Xavier.

The term "SJW" doesn't mean leftist or advocate of equal rights. It means a postmodernist-influenced peddler of identity politics. Someone who believes that truth is relative, that there is no need to make logical arguments because logic itself is a heteropatriarchical social construct, etc.

Noam Chomsky is the most respected left wing intellectual of the past 100 years. He isn't an SJW. He thinks the ideology that underlies it--postmodernism--is nonsense. I agree with him:

http://bactra.org/chomsky-on-postmodernism.html

http://www.openculture.com/2018/02/noam-chomsky-explains-whats-wrong-with-postmodern-philosophy-french-intellectuals.html

In current Marvel, the forced politics people are annoyed by are things like Ta Nehisi Coates using Black Panther to promote what looks like segregationist opinions (his desire to keep white people out of Harlem). Or the Angela issue where the writer threw modern "misogynist" buzzwords in the mouth of Thor's grandfather. Characters from "majority" groups are portrayed as evil or incompetent--and it's painfully obvious that this is done intentionally, as a matter of ideology. The stories are being driven by ideology, not entertainment value. Artists suddenly feel the need to draw male characters as skinnier and more feminine, while making a large number of female characters more masculine in appearance. And vastly reducing the curve of female characters.

If just some of these changes occurred in a few titles, far less people would be turned off by it. If the politics were nuanced and portrayed more than one side--think Watchmen, or even Civil War--again, few would have an issue. The problem is that, in addition to boring writing, a goofy ideology has taken over most of the Marvel titles all at once.

Actully SJW is short Social Justice Warrior. Mean people fighting for Social Justice or poltical change. The paint it as a bad thing. Could mean a slur. As if fighting for social justice is a bad. SJW is an OVER used term. Or the idea one cant talk about idenity politics. Namely when it same people talking about how the white Rural Americans, or The white working class being left behind. Which maybe they have. I can understand how they can feel that way. But thats also indenity politics. MRA are indinity politics. Lot of anti SJW..or people who feel manhood under attack is indenity politics.

Xmen were indenity politics since it an Alegory for Gay issues, and Racial issues.


Most of the current Example people bring up replace havent establish heroes
Miles- You still have Spiderman. It was an Alternate Reality. When he came back to 516 unverse. Peter Parker Still around

Lady Thor- Thor was never going to go away. It a termpoary thing. Just like when Jon Steward became Green Lantern. And he wasnt affraid to talk about race. And she died..which was always the plan

ms Marvel- Captain Marvel still around

X-11 Stint was temporary. Old man wolverine took over because the mini was popular but real wolverine came back

Marvel always had politics, so Did DC. Xmen always been political. God Loves man Kills, Magneto and Xavier Race leader alegory. North Star coming out, Green Arrow being super liberal. Fuck the green arrow Green Latern run


(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/marvel_dc/images/3/39/Green_Lantern_Civil_Rights_01.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20090722190817)

Some of that shit didnt scream nuance. Xmen could sometime be the most ham fisted shit ever.  Frank Miller didnt shy away about his politics either. Superman wasnt affraid to teach diversity

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/06/bf/83/06bf839fb2d32e6208576bac8f5e9458.png)

Now if some people had the internet at the time...they be bitching. Why this image superhero have Aids. Or why I got to get this gay Candadian. While some black guy giving Jon Stewart shit. Why Xmen making the church look evil.  I just want escapist fun.

Superman faught the Klan for crying out loud. He was a populist hero. Fighting corrupt buisness men. Then comics became a propagan tool during the war

Not to mention Captian America Always been into poltiics. Renounching the roll when he had to rail against the country he loved. Hell one of the best marvel movie is Winter solider...and that an anti survellance argument


Or when Falcoln became Cap for a bit. Bucky was cap for similar time if not longer. Both were side kicks. Both were there own unqiue character before they put on the cap suit. But one got more massivly bitch



as I mention Jon took over the book from time to time. A Jon steward was running around calling people whitie, beat the shit out of Green Latenr, called the president a racist. There be 100's of you tube vids dedicated to trashing that today. in the cartoon he sure as heck replace Hal. A lot of kids only knew John as the green Lantern for a bit. You dont think part of that decision was them wanting the show to be a bit more diverse. Hell same with Firestorm.

Milistrone was DESIGN. To be a black comic universe. If you tried this shit now..you know people would be screaming about
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Rufio on June 01, 2018, 08:03:32 AM
Rock:

“Social justice warrior” is a reference to Social Justice ideology. It’s an academic ideology grounded in postmodernism/radical social constructivism. It’s a discipline that teaches seeing people as members of groups, not as individuals. The Superman scene you posted promotes the opposite.

Your examples of past politics are brief snippets of political statements or analogies in comics driven primarily by entertainment. That’s not what Marvel is doing now. And, with the exception of the Denny O’ Neil Green Lantern scene (which has always been controversial among fans and creators), none of your examples are especially preachy. They’re just background or Easter eggs in stories written mostly to entertain. The X-Men are a good example. You can read Claremont’s classic run and never feel like the comic is preaching to you.

This is a clear distinction, in my view.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: therock on June 01, 2018, 09:08:44 AM
most of the new stuff is brief. not like morals screaming about blm left  and right

ms marvel not talking about trump all the time. Jane foster not screaming checking anyone privilege or talking about the scourge of mansplaing

sure comics like America sucks but the rest maybe not

some of the old stuff not breif

that green arrow green lantern run was very political

milestone talk about racial stuff all the time

captain America runs were extremely political specifying left and right

some of the dark knight stuff was pretty heavy handed

a lot of the academics trying to preach equality to. they just go overboard with how they do it. different groups may deal with different shit. I would argue anti she movement decide people into groups a.d just as whiny as sjw people
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Panthergod on June 01, 2018, 12:44:02 PM
Jimmy, you don't think your shyster justifications are fooling anyone, do you?
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Rufio on June 01, 2018, 12:53:11 PM
Jimmy, you don't think your shyster justifications are fooling anyone, do you?

Justifications for what, exactly?

Far as I can tell, I’ve been criticizing, not justifying.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Clownprince23 on June 01, 2018, 03:36:12 PM
Rufio has so far said exactly how I felt in a manner more capable then I ever could. I don’t mind diversity in comics, but when I feel like it’s part of some larger idealogic push, I get turned off by it. So many characters being changed at once made it pretty obvious that it wasn’t entertainment driven.


I read Thor for a bit, but got behind and then all the event tie ins, minis, and relaunches I just gave up.


I gave Cho Hulk a chance, but pretty quickly knew it wasn’t for me.


Spider-Man at this time also went south for me as did Deadpool.


It was around this time that I pretty much went to just Doc Strange and Silver Surfer, and then Steve Rogers Cap when it came out.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: XerxesTWD on June 01, 2018, 04:21:12 PM
Tying too much together has been a growing problem since Bendis and Johns got the reins of the Big 2.

It used to be a legit event when things crossed over. Now it's the semi-annual norm.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: MTL76 on June 01, 2018, 06:06:05 PM
Rock:

“Social justice warrior” is a reference to Social Justice ideology. It’s an academic ideology grounded in postmodernism/radical social constructivism. It’s a discipline that teaches seeing people as members of groups, not as individuals. The Superman scene you posted promotes the opposite.

Your examples of past politics are brief snippets of political statements or analogies in comics driven primarily by entertainment. That’s not what Marvel is doing now. And, with the exception of the Denny O’ Neil Green Lantern scene (which has always been controversial among fans and creators), none of your examples are especially preachy. They’re just background or Easter eggs in stories written mostly to entertain. The X-Men are a good example. You can read Claremont’s classic run and never feel like the comic is preaching to you.

This is a clear distinction, in my view.

Rufio has so far said exactly how I felt in a manner more capable then I ever could.

Agree with both of these posts.

Also, what's particularly irksome about this crop of comic book SJWs is that they're completely ignorant of comic book history, or at least pretend to be. They think that comic books were strictly the purview of straight white men until they came along to save them, which is utter bullshit, and disregards the contributions of a general of creators and characters.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Clownprince23 on June 02, 2018, 12:39:51 AM

Also, what's particularly irksome about this crop of comic book SJWs is that they're completely ignorant of comic book history, or at least pretend to be. They think that comic books were strictly the purview of straight white men until they came along to save them, which is utter bullshit, and disregards the contributions of a general of creators and characters.


Exactly
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Upper_Krust on June 05, 2018, 11:15:47 AM
I think the current climate in comics is just as polarised as current Politics. However, the 'gatekeepers' (as they are known) within the industry right now are virtually all Left-leaning or in some cases Far Left-leaning.

This means that anyone who is a Republican (such as Ethan Van Sciver) MUST be hounded from the industry.

They do this by:

1. Spreading a bunch of lies about people (with different political opinions to your own).
2. Demonizing them enough to justify any sort of attack, even violence.
3. Try to de-platform them and make sure to let everyone else know they'll be tarnished with the same brush if they don't immediately condemn them.

The treatment of people like Ethan Van Sciver, Jon Malin and Diversity & Comics has been absolutely shameful.

I see people in here just slamming Jon Malin's talent and his art, then you go compare it to 90+% of the books Marvel currently ship and his art is CLEARLY far superior. So what kind of absolute rubbish are these detractors on about!? Its so hypocritical its ridiculous.

The Bashing of Van Sciver has been even more ridiculous. Hounded out of the industry for voting Republican...I mean seriously!? That's how poisoned by Left-wing activists the comic industry has become.

But the worst treatment of all they saved for Diversity & Comics who has shone a spotlight on the hypocrisy and the far-left agenda being forced into comics right now. Anyone who lambasts him as racist, sexist, homophobic or whatever clearly never watches any of his videos because he is none of those things. My guess is they are just reading the industry propaganda articles on him rather than doing their own investigating.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Upper_Krust on June 05, 2018, 11:56:09 AM
You said it's not about diversity/sjw and yet here you are defending the exact bullshit which started comicsgate.


Its not about Diversity*, its about Comics forcing a (far) left-wing agenda.

*Comics have been diverse from as long as I've been collecting ( late 70's/early 80's ).

Quote
I've read Riri as Iron man and it's a pretty damn good book same as Thor with Jane Foster.


Two utterly dreadful books starring unlikable main characters both of whom are complete Mary Sue's that stole the title but are inexplicably FAR BETTER at what they do than their male predecessor.

Quote
Why should the Hammer be passed only to blonde an blue-eyed characters white men?
 

No one is saying it should, but at least give it to a character who is worthy.

Quote
The exception being better Ray bill that I can think of off the Top of my head.  Someone worthy should honestly potentially be anyone.  Not just because someone who makes someone feel comfortable or fits inside of their mental box.

Jane Foster isn't worthy though, and she never was. Being sick doesn't make you worthy. A lifetime of good deeds backed by the desire to help a specific person (or persons) in need is what makes someone worthy. Jane abandoned her husband and son because she heard Thor was back in town.

Quote
And as for the women.  We have women who are in better physical condition than a lot of dudes.


Whats your point? The most athletic women are in 'better condition' than the least healthy men?

I don't think a character is particularly strong if they don't stand on their own merit.

RiRi isn't Iron Man, Jane Foster isn't Thor, X-23 isn't Wolverine, Kate Bishop isn't Hawkeye, etc.

They are just piggybacking on the success of better characters, but that's only half the problem, because not only does Marvel push these (Mary Sue) characters over their male counterparts they also feel the need to put down, emasculate, villify or otherwise shame the male characters at the same time (essentially they treat these characters the same way the industry treats Republicans).

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If that's something their paltry egos are afraid of them they should just stick to the shit that makes them feel comfortable.  Comics from the 40 and 50's.  The good ol days.

Stop talking SHIT.

No one here was reading comics in the 40s and 50s. But many might have been reading comics in the 80s and 90s when we had the likes of Storm leading the X-Men and Northstar in Alpha Flight and the comics were GREAT.

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Because, the world is changing and we should have no problem leaving dead weight and outdated ideas behind that aren't beneficial to society.

I don't see how having Masculine Male heroes and Feminine Female heroines isn't beneficial to society?

Are you saying weak, feeble, unsure men are good role models? Are you saying beautiful, sexy women are bad role models?

I'm all for the industry reflecting the world around us, but you don't destroy good characters that people have loved for generations to push a bunch of shallow knock-offs...unless of course you are pushing a political agenda.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Upper_Krust on June 05, 2018, 12:24:54 PM
But, comics have always had a political slant to them or a controversial slant when it's been necessary.


I agree. Its simply that now we see a Far Left leaning agenda forced into the majority of comics and if you point that out you get forced out of the industry and smeared as a Nazi.

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Batman had an excellent story regarding child trafficking,


That's a crime, not a political stance.

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Caps and other early marvel comics were fucking propaganda tools and so were Dc heroes.
 

During WAR time.  ::)

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And despite you're not saying anything regarding "straight white men."  You're argument and their argument is against diversity and Sjw's everything that "straight white males" seem to  be intimidated by for no reason other than their scared of change.
 

The same way the readers were 'scared' of Female, Black or Gay characters in the 80's & 90's who all existed in great stories WITHOUT the need to talk down to the readers and PREACH the political leanings of the author at every opportunity.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: XerxesTWD on June 05, 2018, 12:29:39 PM
Are you going to be OK? You seem more upset than the people whining about white males in comics.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Upper_Krust on June 05, 2018, 02:42:48 PM
Are you going to be OK?


Was this addressed at me? If so I'm great thanks for asking, its the comics industry that's doing a bit poorly right now.  :'(

Quote
You seem more upset than the people whining about white males in comics.

Does raising issues and making points now mean you are 'more upset than the people whining'...?

I noticed you skipped any and all points in your 'rebuttal', care to try again?
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: XerxesTWD on June 05, 2018, 02:45:39 PM
Are you going to be OK?


Was this addressed at me? If so I'm great thanks for asking, its the comics industry that's doing a bit poorly right now.  :'(

Quote
You seem more upset than the people whining about white males in comics.

Does raising issues and making points now mean you are 'more upset than the people whining'...?

I noticed you skipped any and all points in your 'rebuttal', care to try again?
I'm not trying to rebut anything. You really do seem like you're taking all of this pretty hard.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Upper_Krust on June 05, 2018, 03:41:14 PM
I'm not trying to rebut anything.

I know, its weirdly suspicious. A cynical person might say its because you know you can't. :)

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You really do seem like you're taking all of this pretty hard.

I guess on reflection I am actually upset.

1. That I missed getting into this particular thread debate from the start, I like a tussle.
2. That Aaron has chose to ram his (left leaning) politics into the Thor comic (a book he didn't create).
3. That Conservative/Republican creators are being hounded from the industry by the Marxist gatekeepers.

I'll get over all the above...lets just hope the industry will too. :)
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Panthergod on June 05, 2018, 04:37:57 PM
Rock:

“Social justice warrior” is a reference to Social Justice ideology. It’s an academic ideology grounded in postmodernism/radical social constructivism. It’s a discipline that teaches seeing people as members of groups, not as individuals. The Superman scene you posted promotes the opposite.

1950's Eisenhower Era Civic Nationalism is a individualist ideology..? since when?

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Your examples of past politics are brief snippets of political statements or analogies in comics driven primarily by entertainment. That’s not what Marvel is doing now. And, with the exception of the Denny O’ Neil Green Lantern scene (which has always been controversial among fans and creators), none of your examples are especially preachy. They’re just background or Easter eggs in stories written mostly to entertain. The X-Men are a good example. You can read Claremont’s classic run and never feel like the comic is preaching to you.

This is a Joke, right..?

Claremonmt's run is virtually the EMBODIMENT of preachy superhero comics. Just because you enjoyed it doesn't mean that the inclusion of, leftist ideology, including blatant racial  and homosexual subtext, didn't offend many on the conservative side.

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This is a clear distinction, in my view.

Yes, tjhe distinction is.. your personal preference. nothing more.


The political foundation of entire Superhero Genre is grounded in left wing Social Justice ideology. Period. Now, as someone who has been VERY critical of the Left being from one of the most liberal areas in the country, I hear many of the critiques of the Tumblr-era purple haired harpies who need to demean men in order to validate women, like Kathleen Kennedy did with the LAst Jedi. But What's NOT gonna happen here is people pretending as if this isn't ALSO grounded in the larger context of  the resurgence of overt racism and the gender war in this country.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: MTL76 on June 05, 2018, 06:24:01 PM
The nature of today's progressiveism is very different from Claremont's era, PG. Claremont's message was basically one of outcasts fighting for acceptance and equality, and judging people as individuals rather than as members of their group. Progressivism today is intersectionality, toxic masculinity, original sin, and group identity trumping individuality.

Claremont would almost certainly be considered regressive by today's SJWs.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Panthergod on June 05, 2018, 08:42:04 PM
The nature of today's progressiveism is very different from Claremont's era, PG. Claremont's message was basically one of outcasts fighting for acceptance and equality, and judging people as individuals rather than as members of their group. Progressivism today is intersectionality, toxic masculinity, original sin, and group identity trumping individuality.

Claremont would almost certainly be considered regressive by today's SJWs.
First off, the Entire X-Men concept is among other things a white mainstream liberal demonization of Black Nationalism represented by Malcolm X. Equating Malcolm's ideology of self defense in the face of state sponsored terror that America has always been to a terrorist was always a blatant representation of how fake white liberals despise the idea of Black people not wanting to lay themselves at the mercy of a populace perfectly willign to allow a terrorist totalitarian police state murder and torture black people at will for centuries to this very second. We see this sentiment in this board, after all. makes sense than Stan Lee was a Clinton supporter.

Claremont literally used the MU populace's bigoted fear of living weapons of mass destruction as an excuse to allow a white girl to call a black man nigger:

https://i.imgur.com/imOD3BM.png

Y'know, Oats'  Canadian pussy 'race doesn't matter nigger' racism makes alot more sense now..


But any way, Marxist praxis being applies to class, race, gender, sexuality as represented by intersectionality is an obvious red herring. Marxism was in many areas spot on in its analysis of capitalism but those various issues have their own contexts which were obfuscated by the Frankfurt School cultural Marxists that formulated Progressive theory in academia in order to leverage disadvantaged groups with varying interests as a larger group against the dominant society. 'Original Sin' is an obvious BS way to deflect from centuries of continuing one-sided warfare corrupt morally weak people knowingly choose to benefit from. 'Group identity trumping individuality' is another red herring. People are both individuals and part of a collective. it's not an either/or situation.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Rufio on June 06, 2018, 12:04:15 AM
Rock:

“Social justice warrior” is a reference to Social Justice ideology. It’s an academic ideology grounded in postmodernism/radical social constructivism. It’s a discipline that teaches seeing people as members of groups, not as individuals. The Superman scene you posted promotes the opposite.

1950's Eisenhower Era Civic Nationalism is a individualist ideology..? since when?

Who said anything about an "individualist ideology?" Lots of ideologies that promote collective action still promote logically evaluating the merits of each person. This includes socialistic economic thinkers. If you believe in helping the greatest number of individuals through a collective social safety net, your ultimate goal is still to help people. Success is defined by how many individuals you help.

This is distinguished from, say, deciding all wealthy farmers or bourgeoisie must have obtained their wealth undeservedly--a communist concept roughly equivalent to "white/male privilege" today. Or that there is such a thing as "bourgeois science" or "capitalist science," and it should be discarded because it's been infected by their bourgeois privilege. You see the same thing today, with SJWs railing against white/male/"colonialist" science. (Likewise, on the nationalist right, the Nazis rejected "Jewish science"). Or that all of society and culture is a bourgeois conspiracy.

If you don't believe in inherited collective guilt, and if your political goal is to help the largest number of individuals, you aren't treating people as members of groups in the sense that I mean.

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Your examples of past politics are brief snippets of political statements or analogies in comics driven primarily by entertainment. That’s not what Marvel is doing now. And, with the exception of the Denny O’ Neil Green Lantern scene (which has always been controversial among fans and creators), none of your examples are especially preachy. They’re just background or Easter eggs in stories written mostly to entertain. The X-Men are a good example. You can read Claremont’s classic run and never feel like the comic is preaching to you.

This is a Joke, right..?

Claremonmt's run is virtually the EMBODIMENT of preachy superhero comics. Just because you enjoyed it doesn't mean that the inclusion of, leftist ideology, including blatant racial  and homosexual subtext, didn't offend many on the conservative side.

You're resorting to "subtext?" 
 
A typical Claremont political scene is Storm berating Wolverine for hunting. Wolverine tells her it's none of her business, but also clarifies that he just sneaks up to animals rather than killing them. Claremont may have his opinion, but the scene doesn't make either hunters or animal rights activists look incompetent or stupid.

In SJW Marvel, it's completely one-sided.  SJW writers repeatedly give the message that anyone who does not agree with radical social constructivism doesn't believe in equal rights and social standing.  And that's to be expected, because the ideology being implemented teaches that concepts like "objectivity" and "reason" are themselves oppressive social constructs created to benefit white straight males. In this way, SJW ideology absurdly teaches that there's no way to fairly debate or criticize its ideas. A good book was written about this in the 1990s. Its authors write about it here:

http://scholarship.law.berkeley.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3051&context=facpubs

Yes, tjhe distinction is.. your personal preference. nothing more.

The political foundation of the entire Superhero Genre is grounded in left wing Social Justice ideology. Period.

Citation needed. 

Social Justice ideology--in the sense referred to in universities today--is grounded in the ideas of the late 1970s postmodernists. Building on that, people like Derrick Bell and Judith Butler really caused it to infect academia in the 80s and 90s. Virtually all of the iconic heroes were created much earlier.

You seem to be equating the entire left with SJWs. But there are extreme leftists, well to the left of Bernie Sanders, who are well-respected and disavow the postmodern epistemology. A decade before postmodernism, here's what another leftist, Christopher Hitchens, had to say about the much less extreme identity politics that began around 1970:

"As 1968 began to ebb into 1969, however, and as “anticlimax” began to become a real word in my lexicon, another term began to obtrude itself. People began to intone the words “The Personal Is Political”. At the instant that I first heard this deadly expression, I knew as one does from the utterance of any sinister bullshit that it was – cliche is arguably forgiveable here – very bad news. From now on, it would be enough to be a member of a sex or gender, or epidermal subdivision, or even erotic “preference”, to qualify as a revolutionary. In order to begin a speech or ask a question from the floor, all that would be necessary by way of preface would be the words, “Speaking as a…” Then could follow any self-loving description. I will have to say this for the old “hard” Left: we earned our claim to speak and intervene by right of experience and sacrifice and work. It would never have done for any of us to stand up and say that our sex or sexuality or pigmentation or disability were qualifications in themselves. There are many ways of dating the moment where the Left lost or – I would prefer to say – discarded its moral advantage, but this was the first time I was to see the sell-out conducted so cheaply."
 
Now, as someone who has been VERY critical of the Left being from one of the most liberal areas in the country, I hear many of the critiques of the Tumblr-era purple haired harpies who need to demean men in order to validate women, like Kathleen Kennedy did with the LAst Jedi. But What's NOT gonna happen here is people pretending as if this isn't ALSO grounded in the larger context of  the resurgence of overt racism and the gender war in this country.

I really have no idea what point you think you're making here.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Rufio on June 08, 2018, 08:59:30 AM
I won’t have time to post again until next week, but wanted to add one thing:

Jelly’s complaint that the X-Men made Magneto into Malcolm X makes my point. People LOVED Claremont’s Magneto, with his Malcolm X rhetoric. He became a lot of people’s favorite villain or anti-hero due to that run.

The debate between Xavier and Magneto was portrayed as serious. Magneto was competent, articulate, and complex. You can read Claremont’s stories and sympathize with Magneto, even though his view is ultimately written as the wrong one. Much the same way many fans agreed with Rorschach in Watchmen or Iron Man in the original Civil War. And all of these characters were portrayed as forces to be reckoned with, not bumbling dolts who are easily defeated.

Compare that to SJW Marvel. The remade versions of heroes routinely one-shot villains, get randomly praised by all the heroes for no apparent reason, are told that they do everything better than the original character they’re standing in for, etc. On the flip side, Odin and Thor get portrayed as bumbling and chauvinistic, Peter Parker is turned into a wimp, anyone who’s okay with white hipsters moving to Harlem is shown as naive, and so on. The “privileged” characters are weak, incompetent, and often bigoted dolts.

The problem isn’t politics in comics per se. It’s that there’s a company-wide coordinated replacement of iconic characters with sex-swapped or skin color-swapped versions all at once. And the new versions get the Mary Sue treatment, while any criticism of this ham-fisted maneuver or the politics behind it is caricatured and not portrayed seriously. There’s no complex political debate. Instead, on one side of the “debate” there’s a Mary Sue/Gary Stu character. On the other side, there’s a bumbling weak bigot. This isn’t good storytelling. It’s political messaging that sacrifices story.

Saga is a good contrast. It has many of the diversity themes SJW Marvel is going for, but integrates them as background to a story about complex, flawed characters.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: NeoGreenLantern on June 08, 2018, 12:22:10 PM
What storyline are you referencing that had Parker as a wimp?
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Upper_Krust on June 08, 2018, 12:58:51 PM
What storyline are you referencing that had Parker as a wimp?

I'm no Spidey fan but I keep seeing reviews and articles pop up about him being a total cuck. The most recent example of this is of course the 'Peter Parker Soy Face'. If you google that you'll see a bunch of articles that will likely go into more details.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: XerxesTWD on June 08, 2018, 01:14:05 PM
What storyline are you referencing that had Parker as a wimp?

I'm no Spidey fan but I keep seeing reviews and articles pop up about him being a total cuck. The most recent example of this is of course the 'Peter Parker Soy Face'. If you google that you'll see a bunch of articles that will likely go into more details.
It sounds like a pile of whiny bullshit.

"He's a total cuck now!"


Are there actual specific examples or is it just grasping at straws to build on the justified Mary Sue complaints?
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: NeoGreenLantern on June 08, 2018, 01:16:05 PM
I googled it and found one dude complaining about a bad drawing and saying it's an attack on traditional masculinity for some reason. That led me to another article that lead me to the same guy complaining about Dan Slott, Silk, Superior Spider-Man, and how Dan Slott is an SJW.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Rufio on June 08, 2018, 03:12:26 PM
Slott portrays him as Mockingbird’s whiny sidekick. She’s aggressive and constantly brings up trivial gender politics. He’s subordinate. It’s not a pairing of equals.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: XerxesTWD on June 08, 2018, 03:28:42 PM
Slott portrays him as Mockingbird’s whiny sidekick. She’s aggressive and constantly brings up trivial gender politics. He’s subordinate. It’s not a pairing of equals.
Citation needed.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: NeoGreenLantern on June 08, 2018, 03:37:19 PM
Yeah I read all of Slotts run and MB treated him like a lot of special agent types and I never felt he was playing second fiddle to her. Plus this is in great contrast to how Silver Sable treated him as a great honorable man she trusted.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Upper_Krust on June 09, 2018, 09:36:06 AM
It sounds like a pile of whiny bullshit.

"He's a total cuck now!"

You know what's really telling though...

Xerxes: "Are you going to be OK?"
Xerxes: "You seem more upset than the people whining about white males in comics."
Xerxes: "You really do seem like you're taking all of this pretty hard."


...and then within a few hours there are 15 downvotes/smites on my profile, lol.

I think we know WHO the real upset whiners 'taking it hard' are around here.  ;D

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Are there actual specific examples or is it just grasping at straws to build on the justified Mary Sue complaints?

1. As I said, I'm no great Spidey fan (you want a discussion on how Thor's been emasculated I'm good to go now), but I could probably research a few specific examples for you if no Spidey fans in this thread chime in within a few days.

2. I like how someone who doesn't respond to specific points themselves (ie. YOU) is now asking for specific examples, a little hypocritical don't you think?
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: XerxesTWD on June 09, 2018, 02:20:55 PM
If I were going to "smite" you there would be a few thousand. Good thing you're keeping track of points that mean absolutely nothing though. If your feelings are hurt because somebody else smote you, feel free to report it to the mod of this forum. I think it's AP.

You don't seem to actually know what hypocrisy is.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: NeoGreenLantern on June 09, 2018, 08:19:16 PM
It sounds like a pile of whiny bullshit.

"He's a total cuck now!"

You know what's really telling though...

Xerxes: "Are you going to be OK?"
Xerxes: "You seem more upset than the people whining about white males in comics."
Xerxes: "You really do seem like you're taking all of this pretty hard."


...and then within a few hours there are 15 downvotes/smites on my profile, lol.

I think we know WHO the real upset whiners 'taking it hard' are around here.  ;D

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Are there actual specific examples or is it just grasping at straws to build on the justified Mary Sue complaints?

1. As I said, I'm no great Spidey fan (you want a discussion on how Thor's been emasculated I'm good to go now), but I could probably research a few specific examples for you if no Spidey fans in this thread chime in within a few days.

2. I like how someone who doesn't respond to specific points themselves (ie. YOU) is now asking for specific examples, a little hypocritical don't you think?

I'm a huge Spider-Man fan. Peter Parker and Kyle Rayner are my two  favorite characters. I'm not really sure where the complaints are coming from.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Upper_Krust on June 09, 2018, 09:16:03 PM
If I were going to "smite" you there would be a few thousand.

My guess is you did 3...am I close?  ???

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Good thing you're keeping track of points that mean absolutely nothing though.


I thought it was funny that a bunch of SJWs got annoyed enough at some comments I'd made. :)

As for keeping track, 5 to 20 isn't exactly hard math.

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If your feelings are hurt because somebody else smote you, feel free to report it to the mod of this forum. I think it's AP.

Don't be silly (there you are again with the 'hurt feelings' projection) I actually understood that with that many smites I must have been pissing off the right people.

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You don't seem to actually know what hypocrisy is.

I think we both know exactly what it means; I suspect certain people just don't care.

Personally I really do want some dialogue on this matter with the likes of yourself and others because I honestly don't understand the SJW (or left leaning if the former is too insulting for you) perspective on this issue. Comics are only going to get worse and worse if we continue along these identity politics lines.

But when you try and get that discussion going any criticism of poorly written characters becomes your sexist, racist, homophobic or whatever.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Upper_Krust on June 09, 2018, 09:21:53 PM
I'm a huge Spider-Man fan. Peter Parker and Kyle Rayner are my two  favorite characters. I'm not really sure where the complaints are coming from.

Give me a couple of days and I'll get back to you on this - as noted I am not a Spidey fan myself so I only pay attention to whats going on with Peter peripherally.

Off the top of my head I recall some stuff whereby Pete and Johnny Storm were acting like boyfriends, Peter deferred to
 (15 y/o) Miles in another comic, He's literally cucked out by Mockingbird, made to seem like the weak link when his wife and daughter share his powers and a few other situations. But maybe these are isolated events rather than the norm - who knows?
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: MTL76 on June 10, 2018, 01:21:17 PM
Here is an example of SJW themes in Spider-Man:

(https://i.redd.it/i1z25zihjha01.jpg)
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: SmeaGog on June 10, 2018, 01:38:26 PM
Really? A twelve year old scene from Runaways is what's wrong with modern Spider-Man?
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: MTL76 on June 10, 2018, 01:45:13 PM
Yes, that was the take-home message.

Sorry, that came off snarky. But I think it’s a good example of what people are objecting to with Marvel the last few years. Spider-Man is the ultimate hero for the little guy. He’s a nerd empowerment story. His motto is iconic for its universal message of personal responsibility and looking out for one another. And a purple-haired gender studies student tells him that’s all wrong, and class warfare is the answer. And he eats it up. It’s like a parody.

Fwiw I didn’t hate Slott’s run. I dipped in and out but it certainly had good points. But an example from his run specifically was killing off Electro for and replacing him with... female Electro, who dresses exactly like him, for the most contrived reasons.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: NeoGreenLantern on June 10, 2018, 02:13:37 PM
I'm not sure when the SJW era of Marvel supposedly started but thats from an issue of Runaways from 12 years ago.
http://viewcomic.com/runaways-v2-011-2006/

Spider-Man was trying to reason with them so he can help Cloak with they were also trying to help.

Here is the reddit thread the completely out of context panel is from.
https://old.reddit.com/r/CringeAnarchy/comments/7qv1gk/purple_haired_sjw_schools_spiderman_on_the_with/

Looks like a lot of people who pretend to be comic fans trashing New SJW Marvel without realizing they are talking about a relatively old comic that was pretty well received by comic fans at the time.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: MTL76 on June 10, 2018, 02:27:59 PM
Twelve years ago? Fuck, I’m getting old.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: SmeaGog on June 10, 2018, 02:39:45 PM
Yes, that was the take-home message.

Sorry, that came off snarky. But I think it’s a good example of what people are objecting to with Marvel the last few years. Spider-Man is the ultimate hero for the little guy. He’s a nerd empowerment story. His motto is iconic for its universal message of personal responsibility and looking out for one another. And a purple-haired gender studies student tells him that’s all wrong, and class warfare is the answer. And he eats it up. It’s like a parody.

Fwiw I didn’t hate Slott’s run. I dipped in and out but it certainly had good points. But an example from his run specifically was killing off Electro for and replacing him with... female Electro, who dresses exactly like him, for the most contrived reasons.

(Pre-edit:)
I honest to fuck can't begin to imagine what you thought your message was, but yes, I figured it was well worth pointing out your example of relevant "SJW themes" in Spider-Man is actually a dated reference from an altogether different title which served its actual themes pretty fucking well (and isn't even particular to "social justice" discourse in any meaningful sense in the first place).



Keeping this here because I didn't see your edit earlier (the preview window doesn't seem to update properly upon refresh) and it does hit on most of what I'd have wanted to address, if in an overly agressive tone.

For what it's worth, Runaways was a book about teenaged angst and rebellion, and the scene hits those themes rather well, as far as I'm concerend. The fact that people are upset about a somewhat out of context scene where Spider-Man isn't immediately offended by a kid attempting to turn a phrase is, if anything, a good example of the outrage culture they are meant to be protesting.

I'd say a little more about the merits and demerits of daring to criticize a nerd icon, but I'm on the phone and this is taking forever as it is.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Red Exodus on June 10, 2018, 04:35:47 PM
Honestly the big problem with Marvel's "SJW run" as it were, was that it introduced
new characters (or promoted) existing ones for ham-fisted reasons.

Ms. Marvel to me, was the definitive way of introducing a new minority character
without having it shit on/replace the existing one, and furthermore, without the
entirety of its run being an obvious "LOOK AT MY INSERT DEMOGRAPHIC" ad
nauseum. Ms. America on the hand, is the complete opposite of this.

To give you a better example, think of the character's titles and how they literally
represent them :

"Lesbian Blatina Ms. America Chavez"
vs.
"Kamala Kahn, Ms. Marvel, Muslim American."

One book does not referencing (often where its most of the time, unnecessary)
and practically force feeding you her sexual identity (as well as her parents),
as well as her gender. The problem here is that she is from another fictional
dimension, and when first introduced, she didn't really "act" like a typical
portrayal of a young American hispanic woman. She had a determined attitude,
was tough yet caring, and could you know, speak well, with the occassional
word or lingo in Spanish. All par for the course for foreign or ethnic characters.

Now all of a sudden, her character is playing it up to such a hilarious degree,
that it damn near harkens back to the days when all middle/upper class white
comic writers tried to write African American characters. (Ironic, considering
her writer was a Hispanic woman.)

Now as for Kamala, we have the trade off that at that time period, Carol was
already "Captain Marvel", so there was no "Ms. Marvel" at the time.

Secondly, Kamala herself was a way of introducing American readers to an
ethnic group that seldom, if at all, ever gets any respectable, let alone positive
representation : Middle-Easterners. We've had a VERY small handfull of heroes
who are from that region, the only one aside from Kamala that pops into my
mind is Dust, from the X-Men.

So with Kamala, we are given an actual look into their culture and just HOW
an American Muslim teenager lives.

The result? She's basically a modern female version of Spider-Man. Her personality
is completely relatable, even despite the cultural differences. She is funny, witty,
and probably best represents how people would react to a world with actual
superheroes (namely her fan-gasming when she encountered Spider-Man,
Wolverine, and of course, Captain Marvel). She took Carol's old name because
she was a diehard fan of hers, and again, the "title" was vacant.

Her adventures are silly, but they are most importantly, fun. In none of the stories
is Kamala's racial background ever forced upon the reader. Her being Muslim
and her culture is really SECONDARY to her character. This is the single biggest
problem any writer who is NOT belonging to the race/gender/orientation/etc.
makes. You introduce your character and their personality, THEN you add in the
other "fluff", like the aforementioned race/gender/etc.

As a result, Kamala is infinitely more relatable to the readers, even if they aren't
Muslim. They all can find something in how she deals with her life that can paralell
with their own. You couldn't do that with America Chavez (in her book anyway).

You CAN have a strong gay character. There are a lot of fans of Batwoman and
Midnighter, and they both don't hide that their gay.

You CAN have strong ethinic characters. The X-Men routinely have lots of non
American heroes that are incredibly popular, and Storm is easily one of the
most popular African characters in comics today.

Now if you want to make the argument of there being "enough" fair representation
of races? I think there IS an argument that no, there isn't. But that's an argument
for another day.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: The Shuruku Demon on June 10, 2018, 04:46:19 PM
The purple-haired lass completely missed the point of Ben Parker's quote. Taken in it's proper context, Ben clearly meant that with great power should come great responsibility. He wasn't suggesting that most people have great power, or that those with great power necessarily use it responsibly. We can probably excuse the girl for not knowing the full context of the statement, but she didn't debunk Ben's point, she just strawmanned it.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Clownprince23 on June 10, 2018, 06:25:14 PM
Ms. Marvel is one instance I'm fine with. I thought the story and everything made sense when I read the first few arcs. I like that she decided to take up a vacant title and had a learning curve to go through. The only reason I stopped reading was it just got lost in the shuffle and I wasn't a fan of her power set. Once I thought about reading it again, it had been to long.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: NeoGreenLantern on June 10, 2018, 07:01:27 PM
The purple-haired lass completely missed the point of Ben Parker's quote. Taken in it's proper context, Ben clearly meant that with great power should come great responsibility. He wasn't suggesting that most people have great power, or that those with great power necessarily use it responsibly. We can probably excuse the girl for not knowing the full context of the statement, but she didn't debunk Ben's point, she just strawmanned it.

That's completely in character for her. Gert from the start was the character you didn't like but later warm up to her. She's like Lisa Simpson. The only character that's more unlikeable at the start Chase.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Upper_Krust on June 10, 2018, 07:25:42 PM
Haven't seen anything notably good within the pages of Ms. Marvel or the America (Chavez) comics BUT:

1. I'm likely not the target audience for either*.

2. BUT IMPORTANTLY I don't have a problem with either of those books because they were not trying to replace existing characters; so they stand (and FALL) on their own merits.

* I like good stories that are not about Mary Sue/Gary Stu political activists.  :P
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: NeoGreenLantern on June 10, 2018, 09:42:41 PM
Who was actually replaced though? While Sam was Cap Steve was still around. He also wasnt the first person to temporarily replace Steve. It's been done a few times. Banner was dead for like a hot minute. Wolverine basically got the Return of Superman treatment. Miles basically got a downgrade getting moved to the 616 since he wasn't the primary Spidey anymore. Thor is still around. Tony was replaced by Doom but he's back.

I can get not liking where the stories they are doing with establish characters but I see it less as some she mandate by Marvel and more that people are running out of stories to tell after 60+years.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Dlbiininja on June 11, 2018, 01:19:15 AM
Honestly the big problem with Marvel's "SJW run" as it were, was that it introduced
new characters (or promoted) existing ones for ham-fisted reasons.

Ms. Marvel to me, was the definitive way of introducing a new minority character
without having it shit on/replace the existing one, and furthermore, without the
entirety of its run being an obvious "LOOK AT MY INSERT DEMOGRAPHIC" ad
nauseum. Ms. America on the hand, is the complete opposite of this.

To give you a better example, think of the character's titles and how they literally
represent them :

"Lesbian Blatina Ms. America Chavez"
vs.
"Kamala Kahn, Ms. Marvel, Muslim American."

One book does not referencing (often where its most of the time, unnecessary)
and practically force feeding you her sexual identity (as well as her parents),
as well as her gender. The problem here is that she is from another fictional
dimension, and when first introduced, she didn't really "act" like a typical
portrayal of a young American hispanic woman. She had a determined attitude,
was tough yet caring, and could you know, speak well, with the occassional
word or lingo in Spanish. All par for the course for foreign or ethnic characters.

Now all of a sudden, her character is playing it up to such a hilarious degree,
that it damn near harkens back to the days when all middle/upper class white
comic writers tried to write African American characters. (Ironic, considering
her writer was a Hispanic woman.)

Now as for Kamala, we have the trade off that at that time period, Carol was
already "Captain Marvel", so there was no "Ms. Marvel" at the time.

Secondly, Kamala herself was a way of introducing American readers to an
ethnic group that seldom, if at all, ever gets any respectable, let alone positive
representation : Middle-Easterners. We've had a VERY small handfull of heroes
who are from that region, the only one aside from Kamala that pops into my
mind is Dust, from the X-Men.

So with Kamala, we are given an actual look into their culture and just HOW
an American Muslim teenager lives.

The result? She's basically a modern female version of Spider-Man. Her personality
is completely relatable, even despite the cultural differences. She is funny, witty,
and probably best represents how people would react to a world with actual
superheroes (namely her fan-gasming when she encountered Spider-Man,
Wolverine, and of course, Captain Marvel). She took Carol's old name because
she was a diehard fan of hers, and again, the "title" was vacant.

Her adventures are silly, but they are most importantly, fun. In none of the stories
is Kamala's racial background ever forced upon the reader. Her being Muslim
and her culture is really SECONDARY to her character. This is the single biggest
problem any writer who is NOT belonging to the race/gender/orientation/etc.
makes. You introduce your character and their personality, THEN you add in the
other "fluff", like the aforementioned race/gender/etc.

As a result, Kamala is infinitely more relatable to the readers, even if they aren't
Muslim. They all can find something in how she deals with her life that can paralell
with their own. You couldn't do that with America Chavez (in her book anyway).

You CAN have a strong gay character. There are a lot of fans of Batwoman and
Midnighter, and they both don't hide that their gay.

You CAN have strong ethinic characters. The X-Men routinely have lots of non
American heroes that are incredibly popular, and Storm is easily one of the
most popular African characters in comics today.

Now if you want to make the argument of there being "enough" fair representation
of races? I think there IS an argument that no, there isn't. But that's an argument
for another day.

Your flaw with using Ms. marvel should be apparent to you.  Considering Danvers was the first female replacement using that name.  Then later Monica. Who has grown as a character and has her own name now.  And of course back again to Carol. Why the silence on Carol gaining the name again? Later simultaneously giving it to Kamala.  But, silence up until Kamala a Muslim character comes into play.  I'm like let them run the course and see what happens.  Hell, X-23 is getting her own title and losing the wolverine name.  Who's to say Kamala won't get a name change?  The take the on moon-girl with devil dinosaur is definitely an improvement on that combo.  And often I think taking the name of someone who's passed given the title to another is an honorable thing to do in attempt to carry on that name.  Which, was clearly done say in the regards to Riri and even in Dr. Dooms case.  But, no one had an issue with Doom taking up the mantle.  Or much less even when Dr. Ock took over as the superior spider-man.  Which, I even felt was an excellent run. 
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Upper_Krust on June 11, 2018, 09:01:11 AM
Who was actually replaced though? While Sam was Cap Steve was still around. He also wasnt the first person to temporarily replace Steve. It's been done a few times. Banner was dead for like a hot minute. Wolverine basically got the Return of Superman treatment. Miles basically got a downgrade getting moved to the 616 since he wasn't the primary Spidey anymore. Thor is still around. Tony was replaced by Doom but he's back.

I can get not liking where the stories they are doing with establish characters but I see it less as some she mandate by Marvel and more that people are running out of stories to tell after 60+years.

I agree there is an element of that. Thor has been indirectly replaced before, so has Tony and its nice to mix things up now and again.

However, the big problem this time around is the how and the why.

1. Marvel have been systematically forcing a (far) left agenda into virtually all of its books. No one wants to be preached to in their entertainment and Marvel are not subtle about it, all it does is alienate a large chunk of its fanbase...a fanbase Marvel creators are only too happy to insult, vilify and block online creating more and more resentment as inevitably some fans take the bait and fire back.

2. The treatment of Marvel characters (to push this new agenda) has been horrendous.

The women are often drawn masculine and written as unlikable, man-hating, "I don't need no man" self-entitled, bitches that the other characters place on a pedestal (for no reason), are always morally and physically better than the male heroes they talk down to (despite far less experience in the case of the replacement characters), they have utterly no depth and any conflicts are only there to reinforce their Mary Sue status.

While the male characters are emasculated barely muscled, weak willed, self-doubting effeminate losers that everybody talks down to and are awkward failures in romantic pursuits.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Letters on June 11, 2018, 11:38:55 AM
The purple-haired lass completely missed the point of Ben Parker's quote. Taken in it's proper context, Ben clearly meant that with great power should come great responsibility. He wasn't suggesting that most people have great power, or that those with great power necessarily use it responsibly. We can probably excuse the girl for not knowing the full context of the statement, but she didn't debunk Ben's point, she just strawmanned it.

Not only that but Peter seems to agree with her, and he's OK with her mocking Uncle Bens last words to him.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: The Shuruku Demon on June 11, 2018, 12:24:09 PM
Not only that but Peter seems to agree with her, and he's OK with her mocking Uncle Bens last words to him.

Somebody probably spiked that sushi he was munching on. Rape culture, y'know?
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Letters on June 11, 2018, 04:39:23 PM
Maybe Spidey was big sarcastic in his reply? Hopefully
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: NeoGreenLantern on June 11, 2018, 05:41:28 PM
He was trying to get on their good side because They new where Cloak was and he was looking for him.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Letters on June 11, 2018, 06:53:32 PM
So she's a villain? Cuz that would make sense.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: NeoGreenLantern on June 11, 2018, 07:03:43 PM
If you have a limited scope on how stories are written sure.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: HalloweenJack on June 14, 2018, 05:51:09 PM
well he is lazy.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: therock on June 14, 2018, 09:09:08 PM
Who was actually replaced though? While Sam was Cap Steve was still around. He also wasnt the first person to temporarily replace Steve. It's been done a few times. Banner was dead for like a hot minute. Wolverine basically got the Return of Superman treatment. Miles basically got a downgrade getting moved to the 616 since he wasn't the primary Spidey anymore. Thor is still around. Tony was replaced by Doom but he's back.

I can get not liking where the stories they are doing with establish characters but I see it less as some she mandate by Marvel and more that people are running out of stories to tell after 60+years.

I agree there is an element of that. Thor has been indirectly replaced before, so has Tony and its nice to mix things up now and again.

However, the big problem this time around is the how and the why.

1. Marvel have been systematically forcing a (far) left agenda into virtually all of its books. No one wants to be preached to in their entertainment and Marvel are not subtle about it, all it does is alienate a large chunk of its fanbase...a fanbase Marvel creators are only too happy to insult, vilify and block online creating more and more resentment as inevitably some fans take the bait and fire back.

2. The treatment of Marvel characters (to push this new agenda) has been horrendous.

The women are often drawn masculine and written as unlikable, man-hating, "I don't need no man" self-entitled, bitches that the other characters place on a pedestal (for no reason), are always morally and physically better than the male heroes they talk down to (despite far less experience in the case of the replacement characters), they have utterly no depth and any conflicts are only there to reinforce their Mary Sue status.

While the male characters are emasculated barely muscled, weak willed, self-doubting effeminate losers that everybody talks down to and are awkward failures in romantic pursuits.


What far...far left ideas are they pushing


Thing is it hard to write a woman that not the baddest ass in the room..in a genera that generally power fantasies. I mean if there the main character. Ultimatley they may have failure...but end of the day they are going to win

Ms Marvel
Miles


seem pretty cool, and didn't seem superior then their counter parts wasnt screaming the white man.or seem to be screaming about men. And those seem to be that get bitch about a lot. Thor seem to be well reviewed. Even people who hate sjw..when you talk to admit it a decent story. And it always had a clock on it where she was going to die. Riri...I give you that a bit mary sueish. But no more then Damien..who went around bitch slapping robins in one story arc.

But Falcon. No different then winter solider. He took over in a way people say you should. He an old character that been around for a while. Cap side kick..wasn't introduce over night. Been a mainstay..and then replace Cap. And just for a tempoary amount of time
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Upper_Krust on June 15, 2018, 08:22:25 AM
What far...far left ideas are they pushing

...well off the top of my head...

- Attractiveness is taboo
- Heterosexuality is never the answer
- Death to the 'Patriarchy'
- Playing the Victim
- Lack of Individual Responsibility
- The only good man is the Cuckolded Man
- Self-entitlement >>> Hard work
- In Communist Marvel everyone can be [insert your hero here]

Quote
Thing is it hard to write a woman that not the baddest ass in the room..in a genera that generally power fantasies.


Well an argument for another time might be "Do women really like power fantasies (as much as men) and if so explain the popularity of Fifty Shades", but lets leave that for the meantime.

One of the main problems (for me at least) is not and never has been badass female characters, but rather Mary Sue characters. The simplest and most obvious example of this is comparing Luke Skywalker and Rey.

Marvel's female characters are almost exclusively Mary Sue's: they don't need to try; they win easily; any lack of experience is irrelevant; everybody (inexplicably) loves them...even though they often act like total bitches.

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I mean if there the main character. Ultimatley they may have failure...but end of the day they are going to win.

Partially correct.

But the Mary Sue characters don't suffer adversity; that's why they'll never have any classic stories.

Quote
Ms Marvel
Miles

Ms. Marvel could be a fantastic character, although from what I have seen (maybe 20% of the issues) that book is terrible and simply an excuse for identity politics peddling.

I don't know that much about Miles; personally I'd prefer if he was called Spider-Boy or had his own name though.

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seem pretty cool, and didn't seem superior then their counter parts wasnt screaming the white man.or seem to be screaming about men. And those seem to be that get bitch about a lot.

I haven't noticed much, if any, criticism of Miles (on youtube). I did see one story where the writer was criticized for having (the much more experienced) Peter Parker defer to Miles and act like the bumbling, inexperienced one of the two - but that was a criticism of Peter, not Miles.

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Thor seem to be well reviewed.


By a Comics Media of majority Left-leaning 'journalists'.

Quote
Even people who hate sjw..when you talk to admit it a decent story.

Like who?

I'm on the Thor boards at Alvaro's and even many admitted left-leaning posters who are long time Thor readers admit its terrible.

Within the space of 7 years Aaron has had SIX #1 issues; a Legacy #700 issue and the most hyped Story issue of the decade (Death of the Mighty Thor) keeping the sales afloat.

Personally I think Aaron's run is the Anti-Thor run designed to destroy the character as an icon. But in his defence even I admit his use of mysteries to keep (weak-willed*) fans onboard is amazing (albeit he NEVER delivers in the end).

*It takes a lot for long time fans to give up a book - give them a glimmer of hope and you can keep them buying.

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And it always had a clock on it where she was going to die.


Which was included so she could play the victim.

However, a cursory glance towards the CURRENT issue shows that he brought her back from DEATH immediately after killing her off...oh but don't worry she STILL has the cancer so she can keep playing the victim.

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Riri...I give you that a bit mary sueish.


...a bit.  ::)

Quote
But no more then Damien..who went around bitch slapping robins in one story arc.

I'm not saying there are no Gary Stu characters out there. I am saying there are currently few if any good female characters at Marvel and until they fix that (and other problems) those books will never be any good.

Quote
But Falcon. No different then winter solider. He took over in a way people say you should. He an old character that been around for a while. Cap side kick..wasn't introduce over night. Been a mainstay..and then replace Cap. And just for a tempoary amount of time

...and then his main story (IIRC) was about illegal (Mexican) immigrants...instant classic.  ::)
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: therock on June 15, 2018, 10:31:45 AM
What far...far left ideas are they pushing

...well off the top of my head...

- Attractiveness is taboo
- Heterosexuality is never the answer
- Death to the 'Patriarchy'
- Playing the Victim
- Lack of Individual Responsibility
- The only good man is the Cuckolded Man
- Self-entitlement >>> Hard work
- In Communist Marvel everyone can be [insert your hero here]



What are some examples of that. What comics is the message the only good man is a cuckold man. Was it some Heroes for hire story where Iron fist jerks off while Luke cage bangs his girlfriend. If it netflix Iron fist...Im ok with it...fuck that dude. But if it comics I be shock. the everyone can be a hero..is not a communist thing.  And its not new. Where they say Attractivness is taboo. All the heroes accept for the kids...who are you know kids are still pretty hot. And I dont mean IN THE EYE OF THE BOLDER way. I mean fits with your standard defintion of beuty. Lady thor still an very pretty blond.


People if there were in real life, would be the most attractive one in the room


What far...far left ideas are they pushing

.

Well an argument for another time might be "Do women really like power fantasies (as much as men) and if so explain the popularity of Fifty Shades", but lets leave that for the meantime.

One of the main problems (for me at least) is not and never has been badass female characters, but rather Mary Sue characters. The simplest and most obvious example of this is comparing Luke Skywalker and Rey.

Marvel's female characters are almost exclusively Mary Sue's: they don't need to try; they win easily; any lack of experience is irrelevant; everybody (inexplicably) loves them...even though they often act like total bitches.



First off Fifty Shades is girl porn. And most women acknowledge its dumb but enjoy reading it because its fun. Supergirl,   Hunger Games, Carmen Saniego,  Buffy,  Sarah Conner who seen as one of the most bad ass human in that universe with John as kind of a lil bitch through most of it,   Xena, Wonder Woman, Kim possibke, Sheena. Girl with the dragon tattoo, Nancy drew, Heminon granger. Olivia pope, tons of YA novels

The thing is your put in a tough spot. Because challenges get change into playing the victim. But if Jane Foster Cancer storyline anymore playing the victim then Say nighthawk aids story line. The fist captain Marvel cancer story line, Bruce Banner having an abusive father. Superman slowy dying of sun radiation

Also it harder to do cool bad ass moment with women without people screaming mary sue. You couldnt do a Sherlock holmes with a woman..because people will bitch i she the biggest cunt in the world.  Which will make Dr Who interesting

I watch Dr who a lot. Been watching the old ones as well.  A lot of the time the story stops..just for a character to say how AWESOME Dr who is.  Giving him the finest verbal dick sucking in the world. Campainons want to bang him. He the smartest mother fucker in the room, Can scared planets and armies just by the mention of his name. And not affraid to verbally own someone being dumb. He a bit of an asshole at time. Now it be VERY interest now that Dr who a lady and try to do the same shit


As for people who like Lady thor.  Put me a bind. If you say well the THE liberal press....then anything I show exaplaning why its good and is the liberal press. Then that makes anything saying it bad a free speech warrior fighting agianst the scourge of SJW and PC. When really it just two different people with a different opinon

So I can only go from what I seen on message board. a Lot of people here admist Jane Foster Thor pretty good. Same with other message boards and site im on.  And comment section. Lady thor has a good hook.  If she uses her power she dies. That about heroic sacrafice

What far...far left ideas are they pushing


Quote
I mean if there the main character. Ultimatley they may have failure...but end of the day they are going to win.


...and then his main story (IIRC) was about illegal (Mexican) immigrants...instant classic.  ::)

havent read that story and know how it done. But it just one story...and some good stuff can be done with that idea. As for critue of miles when he first came out it was a HUGE amount of it. It just people calm down  a bit. But when they talk about SJW character replacing heroes he and ms marvel always included in the list to pump up the number

Failing to mention

1)  Miles was an altnerate universe character so didnt replace anyone
2) Captain Marvel wasnt replace..she was Captain Marvel..and she replace another hero

But the list of force diversity ruining comics...sound better if you include those two
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Upper_Krust on June 15, 2018, 02:55:24 PM
Don't have much time tonight. Apologies if I skim a few.

What are some examples of that.

- Attractiveness is taboo: The growing percentage of characters consistently drawn like men - Captain Marvel is probably the biggest culprit of this, but its many characters.
- Heterosexuality is never the answer: There are more LGBT romances in Marvel comics right now than Hetero ones. Not against LGBT romances (actually went to my cousin's gay wedding last year) but that community is about 2% of the western population yet the majority of relationships at Marvel.
- Death to the 'Patriarchy': A direct quote from a recent Thor comic
- Playing the Victim: Fem-Thor being the obvious example
- Lack of Individual Responsibility: RiRi taking over a country, Ms Marvel imprisoning someone for a crime they might commit in the future
- The only good man is the Cuckolded Man: Spidey recently (sleeping on the couch), Thor recently ("Don't touch me unless you want to lose that arm", Dr Strange recently (friend zoned by some unattractive woman he was interested in); Blade recently (turned down by Misty multiple times).
- Self-entitlement >>> Hard work: Multitude of inexperienced heroines who don't need to work hard to succeed - its all just given to them
- In Communist Marvel everyone can be [insert your hero here]: The sheer number of replacement heroes who don't create their own identity.

Quote
What comics is the message the only good man is a cuckold man.

The quicker question would be point out a current alpha male in a Marvel book?

Quote
Was it some Heroes for hire story where Iron fist jerks off while Luke cage bangs his girlfriend. If it netflix Iron fist...Im ok with it...fuck that dude. But if it comics I be shock.

No I don't know what you are referring to there.

Quote
the everyone can be a hero..is not a communist thing.
 

To get specific I mean the sort of 'everybody can be Thor', 'everybody can be Captain America', these characters are not special in any way, 'push'.

Quote
And its not new. Where they say Attractivness is taboo. All the heroes accept for the kids...who are you know kids are still pretty hot.


Obviously I wan't talking about 'the kids' I'm talking about the women who are (almost exclusively) NOT allowed to be sexy.

Quote
And I dont mean IN THE EYE OF THE BOLDER way. I mean fits with your standard defintion of beuty. Lady thor still an very pretty blond.

Lady Thor's figure is well hidden under the armour, but she isn't allowed to be sexy - unless you are turned on by women with big biceps (which she has despite her strength being magical in nature).

Quote
People if there were in real life, would be the most attractive one in the room.

Comics characters are meant to be larger than life, not mundane.

Quote
First off Fifty Shades is girl porn. And most women acknowledge its dumb but enjoy reading it because its fun.


Exactly, it plays to the MOST POPULAR female fantasy of submission. The complete opposite of the Male POWER fantasy you referenced.

Quote
Supergirl,   Hunger Games, Carmen Saniego,  Buffy,  Sarah Conner who seen as one of the most bad ass human in that universe with John as kind of a lil bitch through most of it,

Certainly in Terminator 2 where John was a KID.

Quote
Xena, Wonder Woman, Kim possibke, Sheena. Girl with the dragon tattoo, Nancy drew, Heminon granger. Olivia pope, tons of YA novels

...and from what I have seen of those characters I don't have a problem with any of them. Which is why I didn't mention them.

The problem is not female characters, its Mary Sue characters pushing a left-leaning agenda.

Quote
The thing is your put in a tough spot. Because challenges get change into playing the victim. But if Jane Foster Cancer storyline anymore playing the victim then Say nighthawk aids story line.

...how did that end up for Nighthawk?

Quote
The fist captain Marvel cancer story line,


He actually died.

Quote
Bruce Banner having an abusive father.

I've read hundreds of Hulk stories and I can't recall it coming up.

Quote
Superman slowy dying of sun radiation.

I've read hundreds of Superman stories and I've only seen this mentioned in ONE.

In Fem-Thor its mentioned basically EVERY issue.

Quote
Also it harder to do cool bad ass moment with women without people screaming mary sue. You couldnt do a Sherlock holmes with a woman..because people will bitch i she the biggest cunt in the world.  Which will make Dr Who interesting

Sherlock only gets away with being a Dick because Watson is there to point out he is being a Dick.

As for 'you couldn't do that with a woman' you should watch the final series of the recent BBC Sherlock where that exact thing happens.

Quote
I watch Dr who a lot. Been watching the old ones as well.  A lot of the time the story stops..just for a character to say how AWESOME Dr who is.  Giving him the finest verbal dick sucking in the world. Campainons want to bang him. He the smartest mother fucker in the room, Can scared planets and armies just by the mention of his name. And not affraid to verbally own someone being dumb. He a bit of an asshole at time. Now it be VERY interest now that Dr who a lady and try to do the same shit

You probably haven't been watching much of the recent Dr Who then, he's basically a cuckolded old man upstaged by his much smarter young sidekicks.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Computing+Forever+Dr+Who

Personally I like the idea of a female Dr Who (and I really like the actor playing her sidekick) but I don't like the heavy handed politics and the reasoning behind WHY they are doing this right now.

Quote
As for people who like Lady thor.  Put me a bind. If you say well the THE liberal press....then anything I show exaplaning why its good and is the liberal press. Then that makes anything saying it bad a free speech warrior fighting agianst the scourge of SJW and PC. When really it just two different people with a different opinon

If we take the media comics journalists they all love it - because they have to push the left's agenda or they get fired. Show me one mainstream comics website whose reviewer dislikes Fem-Thor.

Youtube reviewers (where right-leaning critics have been pushed out to) almost exclusively dislike the comic.

But if we ignore BOTH the left-leaning websites and the right-leaning youtubers and just go with the fans on the Thor forum (at Alvaro's lets say) its about 75% negative.

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So I can only go from what I seen on message board. a Lot of people here admist Jane Foster Thor pretty good. Same with other message boards and site im on.  And comment section. Lady thor has a good hook.  If she uses her power she dies. That about heroic sacrifice

If you see any critic ever defending it give me a shout.

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havent read that story and know how it done. But it just one story...and some good stuff can be done with that idea.

Well its just one story that attempted to PREACH to its readers when they just want entertained.

Of course you COULD have a good story about such issues (Civil War showed both sides of an argument) but we know its 100% all one-way traffic left leaning agenda at this point.

Quote
As for critue of miles when he first came out it was a HUGE amount of it. It just people calm down  a bit. But when they talk about SJW character replacing heroes he and ms marvel always included in the list to pump up the number

Well he IS a diversity swopped Spider-man so I can understand Spidey fans getting upset in the first place, a blow that was cushioned because (at that time) Miles wasn't the 616 Spider-man.

Quote
Failing to mention

1)  Miles was an altnerate universe character so didnt replace anyone

He did replace Ultimate Spider-man. But again this is a smokescreen since I didn't raise Miles as an issue.

Quote
2) Captain Marvel wasnt replace..she was Captain Marvel..and she replace another hero

She did initially replace the first Captain Marvel, but no one brought up that point except you.

Quote
But the list of force diversity ruining comics...sound better if you include those two

I'd just include: Fem-Hulk; Fem-Thor; Fem-Hawkeye; Fem-Wolverine etc.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: XerxesTWD on June 15, 2018, 03:28:13 PM
Don't have much time tonight. Apologies if I skim a few.

What are some examples of that.

- Attractiveness is taboo: The growing percentage of characters consistently drawn like men - Captain Marvel is probably the biggest culprit of this, but its many characters.

- Heterosexuality is never the answer: There are more LGBT romances in Marvel comics right now than Hetero ones. Not against LGBT romances (actually went to my cousin's gay wedding last year) but that community is about 2% of the western population yet the majority of relationships at Marvel.
- Death to the 'Patriarchy': A direct quote from a recent Thor comic
- Playing the Victim: Fem-Thor being the obvious example
- Lack of Individual Responsibility: RiRi taking over a country, Ms Marvel imprisoning someone for a crime they might commit in the future
- The only good man is the Cuckolded Man: Spidey recently (sleeping on the couch), Thor recently ("Don't touch me unless you want to lose that arm", Dr Strange recently (friend zoned by some unattractive woman he was interested in); Blade recently (turned down by Misty multiple times).
- Self-entitlement >>> Hard work: Multitude of inexperienced heroines who don't need to work hard to succeed - its all just given to them
- In Communist Marvel everyone can be [insert your hero here]: The sheer number of replacement heroes who don't create their own identity.

Quote
What comics is the message the only good man is a cuckold man.

The quicker question would be point out a current alpha male in a Marvel book?

Quote
Was it some Heroes for hire story where Iron fist jerks off while Luke cage bangs his girlfriend. If it netflix Iron fist...Im ok with it...fuck that dude. But if it comics I be shock.

No I don't know what you are referring to there.

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the everyone can be a hero..is not a communist thing.
 

To get specific I mean the sort of 'everybody can be Thor', 'everybody can be Captain America', these characters are not special in any way, 'push'.

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And its not new. Where they say Attractivness is taboo. All the heroes accept for the kids...who are you know kids are still pretty hot.


Obviously I wan't talking about 'the kids' I'm talking about the women who are (almost exclusively) NOT allowed to be sexy.

Quote
And I dont mean IN THE EYE OF THE BOLDER way. I mean fits with your standard defintion of beuty. Lady thor still an very pretty blond.

Lady Thor's figure is well hidden under the armour, but she isn't allowed to be sexy - unless you are turned on by women with big biceps (which she has despite her strength being magical in nature).

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People if there were in real life, would be the most attractive one in the room.

Comics characters are meant to be larger than life, not mundane.

Quote
First off Fifty Shades is girl porn. And most women acknowledge its dumb but enjoy reading it because its fun.


Exactly, it plays to the MOST POPULAR female fantasy of submission. The complete opposite of the Male POWER fantasy you referenced.

Quote
Supergirl,   Hunger Games, Carmen Saniego,  Buffy,  Sarah Conner who seen as one of the most bad ass human in that universe with John as kind of a lil bitch through most of it,

Certainly in Terminator 2 where John was a KID.

Quote
Xena, Wonder Woman, Kim possibke, Sheena. Girl with the dragon tattoo, Nancy drew, Heminon granger. Olivia pope, tons of YA novels

...and from what I have seen of those characters I don't have a problem with any of them. Which is why I didn't mention them.

The problem is not female characters, its Mary Sue characters pushing a left-leaning agenda.

Quote
The thing is your put in a tough spot. Because challenges get change into playing the victim. But if Jane Foster Cancer storyline anymore playing the victim then Say nighthawk aids story line.

...how did that end up for Nighthawk?

Quote
The fist captain Marvel cancer story line,


He actually died.

Quote
Bruce Banner having an abusive father.

I've read hundreds of Hulk stories and I can't recall it coming up.

Quote
Superman slowy dying of sun radiation.

I've read hundreds of Superman stories and I've only seen this mentioned in ONE.

In Fem-Thor its mentioned basically EVERY issue.

Quote
Also it harder to do cool bad ass moment with women without people screaming mary sue. You couldnt do a Sherlock holmes with a woman..because people will bitch i she the biggest cunt in the world.  Which will make Dr Who interesting

Sherlock only gets away with being a Dick because Watson is there to point out he is being a Dick.

As for 'you couldn't do that with a woman' you should watch the final series of the recent BBC Sherlock where that exact thing happens.

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I watch Dr who a lot. Been watching the old ones as well.  A lot of the time the story stops..just for a character to say how AWESOME Dr who is.  Giving him the finest verbal dick sucking in the world. Campainons want to bang him. He the smartest mother fucker in the room, Can scared planets and armies just by the mention of his name. And not affraid to verbally own someone being dumb. He a bit of an asshole at time. Now it be VERY interest now that Dr who a lady and try to do the same shit

You probably haven't been watching much of the recent Dr Who then, he's basically a cuckolded old man upstaged by his much smarter young sidekicks.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Computing+Forever+Dr+Who (https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Computing+Forever+Dr+Who)

Personally I like the idea of a female Dr Who (and I really like the actor playing her sidekick) but I don't like the heavy handed politics and the reasoning behind WHY they are doing this right now.

Quote
As for people who like Lady thor.  Put me a bind. If you say well the THE liberal press....then anything I show exaplaning why its good and is the liberal press. Then that makes anything saying it bad a free speech warrior fighting agianst the scourge of SJW and PC. When really it just two different people with a different opinon

If we take the media comics journalists they all love it - because they have to push the left's agenda or they get fired. Show me one mainstream comics website whose reviewer dislikes Fem-Thor.

Youtube reviewers (where right-leaning critics have been pushed out to) almost exclusively dislike the comic.

But if we ignore BOTH the left-leaning websites and the right-leaning youtubers and just go with the fans on the Thor forum (at Alvaro's lets say) its about 75% negative.

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So I can only go from what I seen on message board. a Lot of people here admist Jane Foster Thor pretty good. Same with other message boards and site im on.  And comment section. Lady thor has a good hook.  If she uses her power she dies. That about heroic sacrifice

If you see any critic ever defending it give me a shout.

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havent read that story and know how it done. But it just one story...and some good stuff can be done with that idea.

Well its just one story that attempted to PREACH to its readers when they just want entertained.

Of course you COULD have a good story about such issues (Civil War showed both sides of an argument) but we know its 100% all one-way traffic left leaning agenda at this point.

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As for critue of miles when he first came out it was a HUGE amount of it. It just people calm down  a bit. But when they talk about SJW character replacing heroes he and ms marvel always included in the list to pump up the number

Well he IS a diversity swopped Spider-man so I can understand Spidey fans getting upset in the first place, a blow that was cushioned because (at that time) Miles wasn't the 616 Spider-man.

Quote
Failing to mention

1)  Miles was an altnerate universe character so didnt replace anyone

He did replace Ultimate Spider-man. But again this is a smokescreen since I didn't raise Miles as an issue.

Quote
2) Captain Marvel wasnt replace..she was Captain Marvel..and she replace another hero

She did initially replace the first Captain Marvel, but no one brought up that point except you.

Quote
But the list of force diversity ruining comics...sound better if you include those two

I'd just include: Fem-Hulk; Fem-Thor; Fem-Hawkeye; Fem-Wolverine etc.

I would be very interested to hear your opinion on NFL kneeling.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: therock on June 15, 2018, 04:20:25 PM
Don't have much time tonight. Apologies if I skim a few.

What are some examples of that.

- Attractiveness is taboo: The growing percentage of characters consistently drawn like men - Captain Marvel is probably the biggest culprit of this, but its many characters.
- Heterosexuality is never the answer: There are more LGBT romances in Marvel comics right now than Hetero ones. Not against LGBT romances (actually went to my cousin's gay wedding last year) but that community is about 2% of the western population yet the majority of relationships at Marvel.
- Death to the 'Patriarchy': A direct quote from a recent Thor comic
- Playing the Victim: Fem-Thor being the obvious example
- Lack of Individual Responsibility: RiRi taking over a country, Ms Marvel imprisoning someone for a crime they might commit in the future
- The only good man is the Cuckolded Man: Spidey recently (sleeping on the couch), Thor recently ("Don't touch me unless you want to lose that arm", Dr Strange recently (friend zoned by some unattractive woman he was interested in); Blade recently (turned down by Misty multiple times).
- Self-entitlement >>> Hard work: Multitude of inexperienced heroines who don't need to work hard to succeed - its all just given to them
- In Communist Marvel everyone can be [insert your hero here]: The sheer number of replacement heroes who don't create their own identity.




Really there are more lgbt then hetro ones. What are a hetro ones. Are you talking about marriage. Heroes not being married not a lgbt thing. it marvel wanting their character to be bachelors.  One more day was not a liberal agenda

Manly..chick has short hair..not like she swinging a strapon around

(https://i.annihil.us/u/prod/marvel/i/mg/6/30/537ba61b764b4.jpg)
(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/d/d5/Captain_Marvel_Vol_9_1.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20160114163349)

She still drawn pretty damm hot. Most of these character still drawn as hot gigantic breasted women

As for cuckhold. nothong you describe is cuckold. It either a couple having a fight. Or a guy getting turn down.  That stuff happen in Spidey comics for decades.  Sure he got women..but he always had trouble love. Saying how am I

I mean now a days it seem "Face it Peter you hit the Jackspot" would be look at this "Female worship" like some guy need to feel lucky being in some red head biitch presence. Jesus how did people make it  through the claremont Xmen years

Sheer number of heroes replaced.  Most of the examples the heroes werent replace. And if they did it was a tempoary story. Did people bitch this much with Bucky was captain America. You say insert heroes here but fail to insert any hero. Nor is that communism. Get not liking a new spidey...but having a black Spidey is not Communism. if you want to call it forcing diversity that one thing.  But calling it communisim is trying to add a political message that not there

yes Captain marvel imprison someone. Wanst seen as a clear cut thing. Other heroes disgreed thus its a CIVIL WAR about it

As for what Alpha character are they depends on what you feel is alpha. if it showing even a moment of weakness and not getting tail from every woman..is beta...then yea your going to have a harder time

Wolverine, Luke cage, Tony Star iron man, Black panther, Daredevil, Captain America, Immortal Hulk, Punisher, Cable.  Thor no 1, All tough bad asses


Captain marvel died, THE UMLTIMATE VICTIM move. Plus so did Jane..heroes come back from  the dead all the time

50 shades is popular...a large group of women..but most know its dumb as shit. And enjoy the cheesy fiction. They know that shit aint real. Because its a fantasy book

Don't have much time tonight. Apologies if I skim a few.


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Supergirl,   Hunger Games, Carmen Saniego,  Buffy,  Sarah Conner who seen as one of the most bad ass human in that universe with John as kind of a lil bitch through most of it,

Certainly in Terminator 2 where John was a KID.

Quote
Xena, Wonder Woman, Kim possibke, Sheena. Girl with the dragon tattoo, Nancy drew, Heminon granger. Olivia pope, tons of YA novels

...and from what I have seen of those characters I don't have a problem with any of them. Which is why I didn't mention them.

The problem is not female characters, its Mary Sue characters pushing a left-leaning agenda.

Quote
The thing is your put in a tough spot. Because challenges get change into playing the victim. But if Jane Foster Cancer storyline anymore playing the victim then Say nighthawk aids story line.

...how did that end up for Nighthawk?

Quote
The fist captain Marvel cancer story line,


He actually died.

Quote
Bruce Banner having an abusive father.

I've read hundreds of Hulk stories and I can't recall it coming up.

Quote
Superman slowy dying of sun radiation.

I've read hundreds of Superman stories and I've only seen this mentioned in ONE.




His father a big part of his hulk backround. It was in the movie. And has been brought up in the comics. Yes The cancer was mention a lot in the thor story..because it was a self contrain story..with a beginning, middle and end...because that was the story

Just like All star superman is a sef contain story

Also John was a bit of a bitch in 3, and the show.  But I bring that up..because all those are example of a female power fantasy.  It just came out before the internet got so horrible.  If Xena came out today it be bitch about.  Its a story of two lesbians, beating the shit out of everyone. One who fucks up the god of war, and then proceeed to kill the other gods..who hercules struggled with. Gives birth to a crise figure

Yea Watsone calls Sherlock a dick every now and then but Sherlocks tends to be right 99 percent of the time..and owns everyone her meets and doesnt like romance. If that was a chick it would be the biggest mary sue ever


As for Spidey..know the blow was not cushion by it being 616. People lost their shit..even though Spidey was still around. As For Fem Hulk. She been around for decades.  It not a sudden thing.  Huk been replace in his book by other peopel...cho, Hercules..always been temporary

So if you say your not talking about Miles, and Ms Marvel

Then the amount of heroes actully being replace is pretty fucking slim.  It still a thor comics. Is was a male thor comic while Lady thor was around. You still had iron man around. And he was replace by Doom without much bitching. Captain America was replace by Bucky...a guy who worked for Actual communist...and it wasnt much bitching.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Imperial on June 15, 2018, 11:08:29 PM
( Note : Have not read all this, am not going to either.)

It's pretty obvious what they have been doing with Carol. It's also obvious it hasn't worked, at least in terms of comics. Her series constantly needs to be rebooted, and sells terribly regardless. It seems like the biggest market for it is people that enjoy shitting on it.

If they want to transition her, then just do it. At least then they can claim to be all in for the Transgender community. As is, they are appealing to almost no one and it is pretty fail all around.

Unless something has changed since I quit, they have done an awful job of making her character at all likeable either. Most of the time she acted like a hot headed idiot, or the office room dick that everyone hates.


(https://s6.postimg.cc/ds135ppjl/0af46fdb-1b0a-4e2d-a52e-1a98a8cbedb5.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

(https://s6.postimg.cc/4x08v6lbl/4f924e76-4bb4-415a-8e21-5ff84f864849.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

(https://s6.postimg.cc/vuu5wwy8x/527781c0-3649-4a26-a99e-25d5c0b67fe8.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

(https://s6.postimg.cc/5mj17lr0x/5550534-capitana_marvel34_1.png) (https://postimg.cc/image/al6jm4utp/)

(https://s6.postimg.cc/71klwahtd/5a7c9c13-37fd-4cd2-a667-4224e0ec6b98.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/z1opgkl9p/)

(https://s6.postimg.cc/xzeiy1a69/88988233-7358-4e47-934e-ae24cd6d953a.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

(https://s6.postimg.cc/sb8874qe9/9ac66f1c-f2d0-414e-a4f9-cfc0edcfe86c.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

(https://s6.postimg.cc/lxj53v62p/d511b27c-1523-4f82-90c2-c58715dbae89.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

(https://s6.postimg.cc/npc3yr2a9/maxresdefault_50.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

(https://s6.postimg.cc/4k8upfy1d/5550530-capitanamarvel._50.png) (https://postimages.org/)

Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: therock on June 16, 2018, 02:51:00 AM
( Note : Have not read all this, am not going to either.)

It's pretty obvious what they have been doing with Carol. It's also obvious it hasn't worked, at least in terms of comics. Her series constantly needs to be rebooted, and sells terribly regardless. It seems like the biggest market for it is people that enjoy shitting on it.

If they want to transition her, then just do it. At least then they can claim to be all in for the Transgender community. As is, they are appealing to almost no one and it is pretty fail all around.

Unless something has changed since I quit, they have done an awful job of making her character at all likeable either. Most of the time she acted like a hot headed idiot, or the office room dick that everyone hates.


(https://s6.postimg.cc/ds135ppjl/0af46fdb-1b0a-4e2d-a52e-1a98a8cbedb5.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

(https://s6.postimg.cc/4x08v6lbl/4f924e76-4bb4-415a-8e21-5ff84f864849.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

(https://s6.postimg.cc/vuu5wwy8x/527781c0-3649-4a26-a99e-25d5c0b67fe8.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

(https://s6.postimg.cc/5mj17lr0x/5550534-capitana_marvel34_1.png) (https://postimg.cc/image/al6jm4utp/)

(https://s6.postimg.cc/71klwahtd/5a7c9c13-37fd-4cd2-a667-4224e0ec6b98.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/z1opgkl9p/)

(https://s6.postimg.cc/xzeiy1a69/88988233-7358-4e47-934e-ae24cd6d953a.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

(https://s6.postimg.cc/sb8874qe9/9ac66f1c-f2d0-414e-a4f9-cfc0edcfe86c.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

(https://s6.postimg.cc/lxj53v62p/d511b27c-1523-4f82-90c2-c58715dbae89.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

(https://s6.postimg.cc/npc3yr2a9/maxresdefault_50.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

(https://s6.postimg.cc/4k8upfy1d/5550530-capitanamarvel._50.png) (https://postimages.org/)

Those are some bad pics. But other pics see looked normal comic book hot, just with short hair

and in Cival war she was suspose be bit in the wrong...both side were. Hence cival war thing

(http://cdn1.thr.com/sites/default/files/2016/07/captain_marvel_cover.jpg)
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Upper_Krust on June 16, 2018, 02:03:30 PM
I would be very interested to hear your opinion on NFL kneeling.

Although you generally shy away from responding to my points and questions or I'll answer you.

I thought the NFL players were wrong to protest in that manner (its both hypocritical and disrespectful to the flag and the millions who have given their lives for their country) BUT I totally respect their RIGHT to protest - as long as they take responsibility and deal with the consequences of those actions.

As for why its hypocritical, there was a (black) NFL player (apologies for forgetting his name, I'm not American and I don't watch what we here refer to as 'American Football' ) who summed it up nicely when he said (and I'm paraphrasing) "I had two friends killed in a shooting by gang violence and I don't remember seeing anyone protest that."

The point being the NFL players (and BLM) are in uproar over a handful of (mostly accidental) shootings of a few innocent black people by police, but they don't make the same fuss about the THOUSANDS of people murdered every year by criminals and gang violence.

In fact, gang violence is predominantly GLORIFIED by that same culture through music, movies and the like.

Innocent people being killed is a tragedy regardless of circumstance but the police have a difficult enough job as it is without this sort of heavily lopsided over-reaction from race hustlers and their supporters.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: XerxesTWD on June 16, 2018, 02:04:30 PM
I would be very interested to hear your opinion on NFL kneeling.

Although you generally shy away from responding to my points and questions or I'll answer you.

I thought the NFL players were wrong to protest in that manner (its both hypocritical and disrespectful to the flag and the millions who have given their lives for their country) BUT I totally respect their RIGHT to protest - as long as they take responsibility and deal with the consequences of those actions.

As for why its hypocritical, there was a (black) NFL player (apologies for forgetting his name, I'm not American and I don't watch what we here refer to as 'American Football' ) who summed it up nicely when he said (and I'm paraphrasing) "I had two friends killed in a shooting by gang violence and I don't remember seeing anyone protest that."

The point being the NFL players (and BLM) are in uproar over a handful of (mostly accidental) shootings of a few innocent black people by police, but they don't make the same fuss about the THOUSANDS of people murdered every year by criminals and gang violence.

In fact, gang violence is predominantly GLORIFIED by that same culture through music, movies and the like.

Innocent people being killed is a tragedy regardless of circumstance but the police have a difficult enough job as it is without this sort of heavily lopsided over-reaction from race hustlers and their supporters.
That's pretty much exactly what I expected you would say. Like word for word talking point shit.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Upper_Krust on June 16, 2018, 02:47:12 PM
Really there are more lgbt then hetro ones. What are a hetro ones. Are you talking about marriage. Heroes not being married not a lgbt thing. it marvel wanting their character to be bachelors.  One more day was not a liberal agenda

I'm talking about relationships. There are more gay relationships in Marvel comics that Straight ones...and just to clarify again I'm not against such relationships but if 98% of people are straight, the MAJORITY of relationships in Marvel comics should not be gay unless you are pushing some sort of political agenda.

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Manly..chick has short hair..not like she swinging a strapon around

She still drawn pretty damm hot. Most of these character still drawn as hot gigantic breasted women

Imperial (who certainly has great taste in 'the ladies' based on his distracting sig pics ) already showcased why you are totally wrong on this.

Marvel have been consistently making MULTIPLE female characters look MASCULINE and UNATTRACTIVE for the past few years. Yes we occasionally get a panel where the artist might forget and draw a nice looking woman but those are the exception to the new rule laid down by Marvel.

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As for cuckhold. nothong you describe is cuckold. It either a couple having a fight. Or a guy getting turn down.  That stuff happen in Spidey comics for decades.  Sure he got women..but he always had trouble love. Saying how am I


I agree an isolated event like this wouldn't be considered a trend BUT I have seen FAR too many examples of this over the past couple of years to believe this ISN'T BY DESIGN - it clearly is. Just like Captain Marvel being drawn masculine.

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I mean now a days it seem "Face it Peter you hit the Jackspot" would be look at this "Female worship" like some guy need to feel lucky being in some red head biitch presence. Jesus how did people make it  through the claremont Xmen years

Great stories with flawed believable characters who had relationships and real emotions.

Quote
Sheer number of heroes replaced.  Most of the examples the heroes werent replace. And if they did it was a tempoary story. Did people bitch this much with Bucky was captain America. You say insert heroes here but fail to insert any hero. Nor is that communism. Get not liking a new spidey...but having a black Spidey is not Communism. if you want to call it forcing diversity that one thing.  But calling it communisim is trying to add a political message that not there.

I called it Communism as part of the semi-famous meme (technically I should have said Soviet; but 'same thing' )

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/in-soviet-russia

Having a situation where no one stands out because everyone is equal (ie. everyone can be Spider-man or Thor* or Hulk* or Iron Man* ) is communist thinking.

*Even a woman

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yes Captain marvel imprison someone. Wanst seen as a clear cut thing. Other heroes disgreed thus its a CIVIL WAR about it

Actually I was talking about Ms Marvel (Kamala) who put one of her friends in a Guantanamo-style Prison for a crime they 'might' commit in the future.

I had forgot they used the same idea in Civil War 2.

Quote
As for what Alpha character are they depends on what you feel is alpha. if it showing even a moment of weakness and not getting tail from every woman..is beta...then yea your going to have a harder time

Some combination of Strong, confident and handsome.

Quote
Wolverine, Luke cage, Tony Star iron man, Black panther, Daredevil, Captain America, Immortal Hulk, Punisher, Cable.  Thor no 1, All tough bad asses

Wolverine - turned OLD, name STOLEN by a woman - who is better than him - see Generations
Luke Cage - total punk now, go read his recent comics
Tony Stark - put in a coma but brought back as AI to serve women, RiRi is said to be much better than him
Captain America - turned into a Nazi, inspired by muscly 'normal' woman in recent storyline
Hulk - killed, name stolen by a woman
Thor - now a disabled, UNWORTHY, self-doubting cuck without Mjolnir.

I don't know enough about recent BP, DD, Cable or Punisher - so I can't comment on those.

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Captain marvel died, THE UMLTIMATE VICTIM move.


'Death' isn't a victim move.

Quote
Plus so did Jane..heroes come back from  the dead all the time

NEXT ISSUE. That's what death at Marvel means now. Fuck all.

Quote
50 shades is popular...a large group of women..but most know its dumb as shit. And enjoy the cheesy fiction. They know that shit aint real. Because its a fantasy book

Its popular BECAUSE its a submissive fantasy. My point being thats the OPPOSITE of the MALE power fantasy.

Quote
His father a big part of his hulk backround. It was in the movie. And has been brought up in the comics. Yes The cancer was mention a lot in the thor story..because it was a self contrain story..with a beginning, middle and end...because that was the story

Five YEARS and counting - its mentioned in almost every issue.

Quote
Just like All star superman is a sef contain story

Exactly and I don't even remember seeing the dying thing mentioned in every issue of it.

Quote
Also John was a bit of a bitch in 3, and the show.  But I bring that up..because all those are example of a female power fantasy.  It just came out before the internet got so horrible.  If Xena came out today it be bitch about.  Its a story of two lesbians, beating the shit out of everyone. One who fucks up the god of war, and then proceeed to kill the other gods..who hercules struggled with. Gives birth to a crise figure

Xena didn't have to put male characters down to be a strong woman herself though.

I agree John in T3 was a total twat - horrible casting.

Quote
Yea Watsone calls Sherlock a dick every now and then but Sherlocks tends to be right 99 percent of the time..and owns everyone her meets and doesnt like romance. If that was a chick it would be the biggest mary sue ever

Sherlock does like romance; he just pines for the one woman.

Quote
As for Spidey..know the blow was not cushion by it being 616. People lost their shit..even though Spidey was still around. As For Fem Hulk. She been around for decades.  It not a sudden thing.  Huk been replace in his book by other peopel...cho, Hercules..always been temporary

The change to Miles was purely for Diversity reasoning, but from what little I know of the character he has been decent enough (if a bit bland) since his creation.

Fem-Hulk had been around decades and was a great character - of course to undermine Hulk they changed HER to being called HULK.

When Herc stepped in for Hulk it got name changed to the Incredible Hercules within a few issues.

Quote
So if you say your not talking about Miles, and Ms Marvel

Then the amount of heroes actully being replace is pretty fucking slim.  It still a thor comics. Is was a male thor comic while Lady thor was around. You still had iron man around. And he was replace by Doom without much bitching. Captain America was replace by Bucky...a guy who worked for Actual communist...and it wasnt much bitching.

RiRi can be Iron Man, Doom can be Iron Man...in Communist Marvel we can all be...  ;)

The point of the changes is to UNDERMINE and TAINT the originals.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: therock on June 16, 2018, 10:13:33 PM
Ok you just stretch the term Communish to what it not actully is.  And the whole idea EVERYONE can be a hero. Is a thing as old as comics. Spiderman inspired that., Kyle Rayner who by the way replace hero who they turn evil was that, Robin inspired that.  Shazam inspired that. The whole we all have hero inside us all not a new thing.  That a trope that been around for generations. Multiple DC heroes been replace by someone. Captain Marvel herself was a replacement. There been multiple Robins and Flashes.  Multiple people had the Captain America role.  Agent Culson basicly an oridnary slub that got loved over the years. That maybe one day you will be the Wizard, the Jedi, working with batman or be batman.

Again not communism. If you somehow saying you meant that as a meme.  The meme doesnt even worked. Since it not delivered the same way as it did in the link you posted


And yous say most of the relationships are gay one. Which ones. You put stuff like that out. Like all the heroes being replace..when they actully not. What are the gay relationship. Can name the straight ones.


xena didnt put male charcter down. Most of these women havent.  She beat male character thought. Now a days it be "What the fuck dude. Xena beat up these Ares...who can go toe toe with Herucles a DEMI GOD. Xena doesnt even have any power..what is this Femnazia bullshit. Now she killing all the god. And of courser she followed around by that CUCK JOXTER..and they make Bruce Campbell play some Cuck idiot.  Hey news flash Gaberiell...to fucking skinny to take on 30 guys. 2 times her size.  That just SCIENCE ladies"

No it was during a time where this shit wasnt a big thing. But again it also was a fantasy that women loved. It why a lot of women loved Jessica Jones, Scandal, How to get away with murder, Wonder Woman,  Veronica mars. Because it cool women, bad asses. It ok to try to get that market along with guys.  DC superheros girls line selling great. Moongirl and dinosuar doing great.

Girls into Manga..because it has romance, Some male eye candy for girls, and it has some powerfull women characters. Sorry but 50 Shades character is not the only female character that women like. Some into BDSM...some not. You cant base one FAP book on what women want. Bayonetta and Ivy from soul caliber popular..doesnt mean all men want to get whipped


As for some of your expamples

Wolverine - turned OLD, name STOLEN by a woman - who is better than him - see Generations

Old man wolverine was one the most popular stories of wolverine. Inspire LOGAN..one the best Xmen movie maybe THE BEST.  And the death was alreayd tempoary to sell comics. That girl wasnt just somethingf force on people.  She was brought on over the years, build up. And was popular in a block buster movie.



Luke Cage - total punk now, go read his recent comics

I read his comics. How it he a punk

Tony Stark - put in a coma but brought back as AI to serve women, RiRi is said to be much better than him

Captain America - turned into a Nazi, inspired by muscly 'normal' woman in recent storyline

Again turn nazi by a comic cube.  a tempoary hero turns evil..or altnerate reality story. Been in comics since we were born. A termpoary. That fact people freaked out so much..like it was ever going to be a permanent thing is silly, It as if they never read a comic.

Hulk - killed, name stolen by a woman

Also replace by a man, Replace by herucles. And She Hulk had the name for like a couple issue

Thor - now a disabled, UNWORTHY, self-doubting cuck without Mjolnir.

Thor has been proven unworth multiple times. And Build himself back up to be a bad ass



And Captain Marvel putting people in a prison..MEANT to be suspect. IT meant to be something your unesasy with. You dont want perfect Mary sues..but when they show some darkness or bad qualities..somehow it still part of the same Agenda.

Death isnt a vicrtim move. Neither is getitng cancer


Death meaning Jack shit and marvel is not a NEW thing. It not an SJW thing. The idea of Death meaning anything was smothered in its crib by the Xmen. You cant blame that on politics. Bucky and Jason Todd are back. Death is meaningless..doesnt matter if your a boy or a girl



Also where are all these unattractive women your talking about. Most still hot. Ok you dont like Ms marvel, Imagine She Hulk to muscler...again she ALWAYS been a beefy chick depending on who draws

Beside that two who. Is it the young Ms Marvel. Is she suspose to be a triple D knocked out.  It seem mostlydrawn the same. You still got the black widows, The x women, all these hot broads. One chick cuts her hair shot and people lose their shit
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: therock on June 16, 2018, 10:24:56 PM
By the way John Conner has never really been shown to be bad ass. Maybe Christin Bale one...but the robot hyrbrid saved his ass a lot

The 4th one he was a robot. And it was the Dragon Queen story saving the day
The show...Sara Conner...some chick name Sara Conner was the hero. But luckly it was a little before both the SJW and The Anti SJW catfight got in full swing and could enjoy the show for what it was, Even thought that John Conner was thirsty for robot booty through the whole series

Throughout all those movie we never seen the John Conner we were promise
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: XerxesTWD on June 16, 2018, 11:39:40 PM
Really there are more lgbt then hetro ones. What are a hetro ones. Are you talking about marriage. Heroes not being married not a lgbt thing. it marvel wanting their character to be bachelors.  One more day was not a liberal agenda

I'm talking about relationships. There are more gay relationships in Marvel comics that Straight ones...and just to clarify again I'm not against such relationships but if 98% of people are straight, the MAJORITY of relationships in Marvel comics should not be gay unless you are pushing some sort of political agenda.

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Manly..chick has short hair..not like she swinging a strapon around

She still drawn pretty damm hot. Most of these character still drawn as hot gigantic breasted women

Imperial (who certainly has great taste in 'the ladies' based on his distracting sig pics ) already showcased why you are totally wrong on this.

Marvel have been consistently making MULTIPLE female characters look MASCULINE and UNATTRACTIVE for the past few years. Yes we occasionally get a panel where the artist might forget and draw a nice looking woman but those are the exception to the new rule laid down by Marvel.

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As for cuckhold. nothong you describe is cuckold. It either a couple having a fight. Or a guy getting turn down.  That stuff happen in Spidey comics for decades.  Sure he got women..but he always had trouble love. Saying how am I

I agree an isolated event like this wouldn't be considered a trend BUT I have seen FAR too many examples of this over the past couple of years to believe this ISN'T BY DESIGN - it clearly is. Just like Captain Marvel being drawn masculine.

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I mean now a days it seem "Face it Peter you hit the Jackspot" would be look at this "Female worship" like some guy need to feel lucky being in some red head biitch presence. Jesus how did people make it  through the claremont Xmen years

Great stories with flawed believable characters who had relationships and real emotions.

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Sheer number of heroes replaced.  Most of the examples the heroes werent replace. And if they did it was a tempoary story. Did people bitch this much with Bucky was captain America. You say insert heroes here but fail to insert any hero. Nor is that communism. Get not liking a new spidey...but having a black Spidey is not Communism. if you want to call it forcing diversity that one thing.  But calling it communisim is trying to add a political message that not there.

I called it Communism as part of the semi-famous meme (technically I should have said Soviet; but 'same thing' )

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/in-soviet-russia

Having a situation where no one stands out because everyone is equal (ie. everyone can be Spider-man or Thor* or Hulk* or Iron Man* ) is communist thinking.

*Even a woman

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yes Captain marvel imprison someone. Wanst seen as a clear cut thing. Other heroes disgreed thus its a CIVIL WAR about it

Actually I was talking about Ms Marvel (Kamala) who put one of her friends in a Guantanamo-style Prison for a crime they 'might' commit in the future.

I had forgot they used the same idea in Civil War 2.

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As for what Alpha character are they depends on what you feel is alpha. if it showing even a moment of weakness and not getting tail from every woman..is beta...then yea your going to have a harder time

Some combination of Strong, confident and handsome.

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Wolverine, Luke cage, Tony Star iron man, Black panther, Daredevil, Captain America, Immortal Hulk, Punisher, Cable.  Thor no 1, All tough bad asses

Wolverine - turned OLD, name STOLEN by a woman - who is better than him - see Generations
Luke Cage - total punk now, go read his recent comics
Tony Stark - put in a coma but brought back as AI to serve women, RiRi is said to be much better than him
Captain America - turned into a Nazi, inspired by muscly 'normal' woman in recent storyline
Hulk - killed, name stolen by a woman
Thor - now a disabled, UNWORTHY, self-doubting cuck without Mjolnir.

I don't know enough about recent BP, DD, Cable or Punisher - so I can't comment on those.

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Captain marvel died, THE UMLTIMATE VICTIM move.

'Death' isn't a victim move.

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Plus so did Jane..heroes come back from  the dead all the time

NEXT ISSUE. That's what death at Marvel means now. Fuck all.

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50 shades is popular...a large group of women..but most know its dumb as shit. And enjoy the cheesy fiction. They know that shit aint real. Because its a fantasy book

Its popular BECAUSE its a submissive fantasy. My point being thats the OPPOSITE of the MALE power fantasy.

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His father a big part of his hulk backround. It was in the movie. And has been brought up in the comics. Yes The cancer was mention a lot in the thor story..because it was a self contrain story..with a beginning, middle and end...because that was the story

Five YEARS and counting - its mentioned in almost every issue.

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Just like All star superman is a sef contain story

Exactly and I don't even remember seeing the dying thing mentioned in every issue of it.

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Also John was a bit of a bitch in 3, and the show.  But I bring that up..because all those are example of a female power fantasy.  It just came out before the internet got so horrible.  If Xena came out today it be bitch about.  Its a story of two lesbians, beating the shit out of everyone. One who fucks up the god of war, and then proceeed to kill the other gods..who hercules struggled with. Gives birth to a crise figure

Xena didn't have to put male characters down to be a strong woman herself though.

I agree John in T3 was a total twat - horrible casting.

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Yea Watsone calls Sherlock a dick every now and then but Sherlocks tends to be right 99 percent of the time..and owns everyone her meets and doesnt like romance. If that was a chick it would be the biggest mary sue ever

Sherlock does like romance; he just pines for the one woman.

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As for Spidey..know the blow was not cushion by it being 616. People lost their shit..even though Spidey was still around. As For Fem Hulk. She been around for decades.  It not a sudden thing.  Huk been replace in his book by other peopel...cho, Hercules..always been temporary

The change to Miles was purely for Diversity reasoning, but from what little I know of the character he has been decent enough (if a bit bland) since his creation.

Fem-Hulk had been around decades and was a great character - of course to undermine Hulk they changed HER to being called HULK.

When Herc stepped in for Hulk it got name changed to the Incredible Hercules within a few issues.

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So if you say your not talking about Miles, and Ms Marvel

Then the amount of heroes actully being replace is pretty fucking slim.  It still a thor comics. Is was a male thor comic while Lady thor was around. You still had iron man around. And he was replace by Doom without much bitching. Captain America was replace by Bucky...a guy who worked for Actual communist...and it wasnt much bitching.

RiRi can be Iron Man, Doom can be Iron Man...in Communist Marvel we can all be...

The point of the changes is to UNDERMINE and TAINT the originals.

Jesus, how insecure ARE you? Jelly finally has some competition for "Most ridiculously insecure poster pretending to be a man."

Do you really need people to go line by line to point out how stupid and flat-out incorrect your "points" are to know you don't have any ground to stand on for almost every single assertion?

Show us on the doll where a woman STOLE something from you.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Dlbiininja on June 17, 2018, 01:45:16 AM
I would be very interested to hear your opinion on NFL kneeling.

Although you generally shy away from responding to my points and questions or I'll answer you.

I thought the NFL players were wrong to protest in that manner (its both hypocritical and disrespectful to the flag and the millions who have given their lives for their country) BUT I totally respect their RIGHT to protest - as long as they take responsibility and deal with the consequences of those actions.

As for why its hypocritical, there was a (black) NFL player (apologies for forgetting his name, I'm not American and I don't watch what we here refer to as 'American Football' ) who summed it up nicely when he said (and I'm paraphrasing) "I had two friends killed in a shooting by gang violence and I don't remember seeing anyone protest that."

The point being the NFL players (and BLM) are in uproar over a handful of (mostly accidental) shootings of a few innocent black people by police, but they don't make the same fuss about the THOUSANDS of people murdered every year by criminals and gang violence.

In fact, gang violence is predominantly GLORIFIED by that same culture through music, movies and the like.

Innocent people being killed is a tragedy regardless of circumstance but the police have a difficult enough job as it is without this sort of heavily lopsided over-reaction from race hustlers and their supporters.


Dude, those murdered weren't accidental.  And it's more than just the shootings the police brutality, the judicial inequalities such covers things like evidence being denied which would set someone free, witness coercion by the cops where they witnesses to change their testimonies or even guide or coachh them into saying someone was a murderer or place them at the scene of the crime.  We jabbed the innocenceproject which has helped get sentences exonerated through dna evidence.  And this is something which has happened decades after the fact.  So, we're having mean released 20, 30, 40 years for crimes they didn't commit.  But, they needed someone to arrest so they worked their magic to get someone.  And BLM surprisingly doesn't just address black innocent victims of cops.  When it happens to White Americans their is a deafening silence you don't hear from all lives matter or blue lives matter supporters.  They just seem to disappear.   Much like when cops are convicted of crimes they will not address that.  And don't try to equate or hold the hip-hop genre or the creators of that music as the only source of supporters or people that glorify violence.  What was the excuse before hip-hop, jazz, r&b, soul, blues, or rock?  I've seen fights at rock events.  In fact Vegas had our largest mass shooting outside of military action against native Americans and African-Americans under the American flag.  Wait, I can't forget the japanese internment camps during WWII, in fact.  I believe African American soldiers weren't even able to fight with other American troops under that flag which during WWII.  But, they did get to fight for the French. And for centuries that flag has oppressed African-Americans & contributed to the slaughter of Native American.  And don't try to use violence by one group to justify or make what the cops are doing acceptable.  Because, In America there's actually a white on white violence issue.  But, when it comes to talking points Americans will definitely overlook that while trying to back their claim.  And actually Over seen efforts within bblack communities to address & reduced or stop black on black violence.  The BLM and others have stepped up in that regard.  But, oddly that doesn't get media play. 

    And their is also a matter of things like where the United States Goverment has been accused & connected with & too the import of drugs into America as well as the sales of guns to American gangs.  The first big story to check out is Gary Webb's article with the Mercury Herald I believe it was.  This was linked to Oliver North & the Cia/Iran Contra,  another thing to check out is honestly Tom Cruise's most recent movie.  This was based upon an American pilot that was flying drugs into the gulf states.  I think it was the Cia or Fbi who turned a blind eye so that they could try to pop Noriega or Escobar. 

     There's also been claims of the police selling guns & drugs to gang members in Los Angeles & Chicago. I think it was The last year that peole were claiming the cops were responsible for some murders also.  We recently had some Seattle cops popped for running a drug ring I believe.   Hell, we've just started making laws tellng cops it's illegal to have sex with peole they arrest.  Sacramento had a big desk with a sex operation & cops fucking an underaged prostitute.  Think that turned out to be a pretty big deal also.  And look up the OC snitch scandal through the OC weekly.  Talk about a joke.

And honestly what's more hypocritical than selectively applying respect to certain members of a society or even being deprived of your life for no reason.  You really need to look at some of the things these cops have done.  We have the infinite thread of evil cops for a reason.  Blue crimes matter.  Blue lives matter is bullshit because it a fucking job occupation & not endangered smurfs or people.  And there's actually more dangerous jobs that don't get attention or respect tat they deserve.  And we've seen good guys with guns at cower and do nothing while people were slaughtered in a school.  And normally they're the last to have an impact on a violent situation. 
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Upper_Krust on June 17, 2018, 12:02:55 PM
That's pretty much exactly what I expected you would say. Like word for word talking point shit.

...and your reply is pretty much what I expected as well. A snide retort with zero substance because you know you'll lose any points.

Let me ask you this Xerxes, Over the past 5 years (or even lets say since 2011) in your opinion are comics getting BETTER, getting WORSE or about the same as the previous decade 2001-2010. I'm just curious.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Upper_Krust on June 17, 2018, 12:08:01 PM
Jesus, how insecure ARE you?

I'm not insecure at all, quite the opposite in fact (hence the screen name).

I've been following the developments in comics over the past 5 years and the evidence is overwhelming.

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Jelly finally has some competition for "Most ridiculously insecure poster pretending to be a man."

Who needs to reply to points when you can just get away with personal attacks.

Quote
Do you really need people to go line by line to point out how stupid and flat-out incorrect your "points" are to know you don't have any ground to stand on for almost every single assertion?

If you don't have the time or skill to tackle ALL the points. Pick the 3 that annoy you the most and respond to those.

Quote
Show us on the doll where a woman STOLE something from you.

Every thread needs a sniper camping on the sidelines, bravo.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: XerxesTWD on June 17, 2018, 12:20:23 PM
That's pretty much exactly what I expected you would say. Like word for word talking point shit.

...and your reply is pretty much what I expected as well. A snide retort with zero substance because you know you'll lose any points.

Let me ask you this Xerxes, Over the past 5 years (or even lets say since 2011) in your opinion are comics getting BETTER, getting WORSE or about the same as the previous decade 2001-2010. I'm just curious.
You didn't make any actual points. You literally posted false equivalency to make yourself feel good about having a misinformed opinion. That's why your opinion on the matter was so predictable. You don't have an actual take on the subject beyond what you've been told to say.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: XerxesTWD on June 17, 2018, 12:22:47 PM
Jesus, how insecure ARE you?

I'm not insecure at all, quite the opposite in fact (hence the screen name).

I've been following the developments in comics over the past 5 years and the evidence is overwhelming.

Quote
Jelly finally has some competition for "Most ridiculously insecure poster pretending to be a man."

Who needs to reply to points when you can just get away with personal attacks.

Quote
Do you really need people to go line by line to point out how stupid and flat-out incorrect your "points" are to know you don't have any ground to stand on for almost every single assertion?

If you don't have the time or skill to tackle ALL the points. Pick the 3 that annoy you the most and respond to those.

Quote
Show us on the doll where a woman STOLE something from you.

Every thread needs a sniper camping on the sidelines, bravo.
You've done so much to show how secure you are in this thread alone. You don't seem threatened by women. You don't seem threatened by minorities. You don't seem threatened by change in any form. You definitely don't seem like you've been extrapolating absolute nonsense from actual comics to shoehorn into your preformed opinion at all.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Panthergod on June 17, 2018, 12:25:40 PM
I would be very interested to hear your opinion on NFL kneeling.

Although you generally shy away from responding to my points and questions or I'll answer you.

I thought the NFL players were wrong to protest in that manner (its both hypocritical and disrespectful to the flag and the millions who have given their lives for their country) BUT I totally respect their RIGHT to protest - as long as they take responsibility and deal with the consequences of those actions.

As for why its hypocritical, there was a (black) NFL player (apologies for forgetting his name, I'm not American and I don't watch what we here refer to as 'American Football' ) who summed it up nicely when he said (and I'm paraphrasing) "I had two friends killed in a shooting by gang violence and I don't remember seeing anyone protest that."

The point being the NFL players (and BLM) are in uproar over a handful of (mostly accidental) shootings of a few innocent black people by police, but they don't make the same fuss about the THOUSANDS of people murdered every year by criminals and gang violence.

In fact, gang violence is predominantly GLORIFIED by that same culture through music, movies and the like.

Innocent people being killed is a tragedy regardless of circumstance but the police have a difficult enough job as it is without this sort of heavily lopsided over-reaction from race hustlers and their supporters.

..so you support taxpayer funded agents of the State disproportionately murdering Black people, including 12 year old children playing in a park within 10 seconds, because criminals who ALSO kill black people, are violent..?

Of course you do.

White Men's utter insecure effeminate cowardice IS at the heart of their continued war on the Black race, after all.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: MTL76 on June 17, 2018, 12:46:45 PM
You've done so much to show how secure you are in this thread alone. You don't seem threatened by women. You don't seem threatened by minorities. You don't seem threatened by change in any form. You definitely don't seem like you've been extrapolating absolute nonsense from actual comics to shoehorn into your preformed opinion at all.

This is definitely a post made by someone who is NOT MAD or worked up in any way.

Female and minority protagonists have been a part of superhero comics for a long, long time. I’m assuming Upper_Krust is aware of this.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Upper_Krust on June 17, 2018, 12:47:59 PM
Ok you just stretch the term Communish to what it not actully is.  And the whole idea EVERYONE can be a hero. Is a thing as old as comics. Spiderman inspired that., Kyle Rayner who by the way replace hero who they turn evil was that, Robin inspired that.  Shazam inspired that. The whole we all have hero inside us all not a new thing.  That a trope that been around for generations. Multiple DC heroes been replace by someone. Captain Marvel herself was a replacement. There been multiple Robins and Flashes.  Multiple people had the Captain America role.  Agent Culson basicly an oridnary slub that got loved over the years. That maybe one day you will be the Wizard, the Jedi, working with batman or be batman.

When you have 10 different Spider-men it DILUTES what it means to BE Spider-man.

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Again not communism. If you somehow saying you meant that as a meme.  The meme doesnt even worked. Since it not delivered the same way as it did in the link you posted

Meme's evolve over time.

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And yous say most of the relationships are gay one. Which ones. You put stuff like that out. Like all the heroes being replace..when they actully not. What are the gay relationship. Can name the straight ones.


Iceman, X-23, Hawkeye, America Chavez, Viv Vision

vs.

Colossus (although with Kitty making all the moves), Falcon, Cage (although he's well under the thumb).

failed Cuckery: Spider-man, Dr Strange, Thor, Blade

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xena didnt put male charcter down. Most of these women havent.  She beat male character thought. Now a days it be "What the fuck dude. Xena beat up these Ares...who can go toe toe with Herucles a DEMI GOD. Xena doesnt even have any power..what is this Femnazia bullshit. Now she killing all the god. And of courser she followed around by that CUCK JOXTER..and they make Bruce Campbell play some Cuck idiot.  Hey news flash Gaberiell...to fucking skinny to take on 30 guys. 2 times her size.  That just SCIENCE ladies"

No one is complaining about Xena, I suspect this is just another red herring by you.

Bruce Campbell's character was for comedic relief.

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No it was during a time where this shit wasnt a big thing. But again it also was a fantasy that women loved. It why a lot of women loved Jessica Jones, Scandal, How to get away with murder, Wonder Woman,  Veronica mars. Because it cool women, bad asses. It ok to try to get that market along with guys.  DC superheros girls line selling great.

Jessica Jones was decent (funny how you complained yesterday about how a dickish detective would never work as a female).  ::)

WRONG AGAIN!  :D

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Moongirl and dinosuar doing great.

Well its not selling great but its probably a comic better suited to Kids Schools than LCBS.

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Girls into Manga..because it has romance, Some male eye candy for girls, and it has some powerfull women characters. Sorry but 50 Shades character is not the only female character that women like. Some into BDSM...some not. You cant base one FAP book on what women want. Bayonetta and Ivy from soul caliber popular..doesnt mean all men want to get whipped

We are not talking about Manga.

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As for some of your expamples

Wolverine - turned OLD, name STOLEN by a woman - who is better than him - see Generations

Old man wolverine was one the most popular stories of wolverine. Inspire LOGAN..one the best Xmen movie maybe THE BEST.  And the death was alreayd tempoary to sell comics. That girl wasnt just somethingf force on people.  She was brought on over the years, build up. And was popular in a block buster movie.

The Logan movie was great, but its still (movie star handsome) Hugh Jackman and he's not being overshadowed by X-23.

Read their generations comic.

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Luke Cage - total punk now, go read his recent comics

I read his comics. How it he a punk

I've seen the recent Defenders comic and Luke Cage comic, he's just terrible in both, extremely low testosterone.

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Tony Stark - put in a coma but brought back as AI to serve women, RiRi is said to be much better than him

Captain America - turned into a Nazi, inspired by muscly 'normal' woman in recent storyline

Again turn nazi by a comic cube.  a tempoary hero turns evil..or altnerate reality story. Been in comics since we were born. A termpoary. That fact people freaked out so much..like it was ever going to be a permanent thing is silly, It as if they never read a comic.

Pick whatever will damage a character's legacy the most and basically Marvel will run with it.

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Hulk - killed, name stolen by a woman

Also replace by a man, Replace by herucles. And She Hulk had the name for like a couple issue

Hercules jumped INTO an ONGOING Hulk comic...and it was renamed after 2 issues (or whatever).

She-Hulk was SPECIFICALLY started in her own series entitled HULK and the only reason that stopped was because of LOW sales. Virtually the entire 11 issues had her chasing down some idiots on a youtube cooking show.

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Thor - now a disabled, UNWORTHY, self-doubting cuck without Mjolnir.

Thor has been proven unworth multiple times. And Build himself back up to be a bad ass

Name one such time!?

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And Captain Marvel putting people in a prison..MEANT to be suspect. IT meant to be something your unesasy with. You dont want perfect Mary sues..but when they show some darkness or bad qualities..somehow it still part of the same Agenda.

Death isnt a vicrtim move. Neither is getitng cancer

Getting cancer doesn't mean you are playing a victim. Constantly reminding people that you had cancer WOULD mean you were playing a victim.

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Death meaning Jack shit and marvel is not a NEW thing. It not an SJW thing. The idea of Death meaning anything was smothered in its crib by the Xmen. You cant blame that on politics. Bucky and Jason Todd are back. Death is meaningless..doesnt matter if your a boy or a girl

If Death is so trivialized that you return from it the next issue then Marvel are fucking finished. Every fight is meaningless, every struggle is meaningless, every war is meaningless, every story is meaningless.

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Also where are all these unattractive women your talking about. Most still hot. Ok you dont like Ms marvel, Imagine She Hulk to muscler...again she ALWAYS been a beefy chick depending on who draws

They even turned She-Hulk into a man ffs.

Check out what she looks like in the latest Avengers comic compared to what she looked like 10 years ago.

Not only did they make her look like Hulk wearing a bra, she talks like Banner-Hulk now as well.  ::)

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Beside that two who. Is it the young Ms Marvel. Is she suspose to be a triple D knocked out.  It seem mostlydrawn the same. You still got the black widows, The x women, all these hot broads. One chick cuts her hair shot and people lose their shit

Women are not allowed to be sexy in Marvel comics any longer - that's a fact.

Its the same Far Left logic that recently ruined the Miss America pageant.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Upper_Krust on June 17, 2018, 12:52:22 PM
You didn't make any actual points. You literally posted false equivalency to make yourself feel good about having a misinformed opinion. That's why your opinion on the matter was so predictable. You don't have an actual take on the subject beyond what you've been told to say.

Then you should have no problem debunking any of my 'misinformed opinions'.

You didn't even answer my question about the state of current comics.  ;D

I read a comic artist's tweet a few days ago which said: "SJWs don't debate, they just lecture." That seems to sum up a few in here.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Upper_Krust on June 17, 2018, 12:57:48 PM
You've done so much to show how secure you are in this thread alone. You don't seem threatened by women. You don't seem threatened by minorities. You don't seem threatened by change in any form. You definitely don't seem like you've been extrapolating absolute nonsense from actual comics to shoehorn into your preformed opinion at all.

...or it could just be I have a point and Marvel ARE aggressively forcing left leaning politics into their comics.

Detractors here can't (or won't) debate the issue (or any issue) and instead rely on red herrings and personal smear tactics about how insecure I am and how threatened I feel, lol.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: XerxesTWD on June 17, 2018, 12:59:55 PM
You've done so much to show how secure you are in this thread alone. You don't seem threatened by women. You don't seem threatened by minorities. You don't seem threatened by change in any form. You definitely don't seem like you've been extrapolating absolute nonsense from actual comics to shoehorn into your preformed opinion at all.

This is definitely a post made by someone who is NOT MAD or worked up in any way.

Female and minority protagonists have been a part of superhero comics for a long, long time. I’m assuming Upper_Krust is aware of this.

Most things you seem to be sure of tend to be wildly incorrect.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: XerxesTWD on June 17, 2018, 01:02:39 PM
You've done so much to show how secure you are in this thread alone. You don't seem threatened by women. You don't seem threatened by minorities. You don't seem threatened by change in any form. You definitely don't seem like you've been extrapolating absolute nonsense from actual comics to shoehorn into your preformed opinion at all.

...or it could just be I have a point and Marvel ARE aggressively forcing left leaning politics into their comics.

Detractors here can't (or won't) debate the issue (or any issue) and instead rely on red herrings and personal smear tactics about how insecure I am and how threatened I feel, lol.
No, they've definitely forced some things in. You cited a couple of those and then extrapolated several more from your own distorted perceptions of the books. You had to reach for some of the dumbest shit on The Donald and /pol/ to make the connections you made.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: XerxesTWD on June 17, 2018, 01:09:03 PM
You didn't make any actual points. You literally posted false equivalency to make yourself feel good about having a misinformed opinion. That's why your opinion on the matter was so predictable. You don't have an actual take on the subject beyond what you've been told to say.

Then you should have no problem debunking any of my 'misinformed opinions'.

You didn't even answer my question about the state of current comics.  ;D

I read a comic artist's tweet a few days ago which said: "SJWs don't debate, they just lecture." That seems to sum up a few in here.
You aren't actually trying for a debate. It's largely because you know you don't have a leg to stand on for the number of assertions you've made, but also because you really want to get those "leftists" and their "agenda".

"___ is a cuck now!" "___ is a soyboy now!" "___ had their ___ stolen by a woman/minority(but hopefully not both!")!" "____ is a low testosterone coward cuck now!"

Those aren't points. That's you whining.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Upper_Krust on June 17, 2018, 01:11:43 PM
..so you support taxpayer funded agents of the State disproportionately murdering Black people,

No I never said that or anything of the sort - this is pure projection on your part.

A corrupt and/or racist policeman DOESN'T condemn every policeman as corrupt and/or racist.

Just like a black criminal gang member DOESN'T condemn every black person as a criminal gang member.

People are individuals and have responsibility for their own actions.

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including 12 year old children playing in a park within 10 seconds,


Which is a terrible tragedy...but then again so are the innocent kids killed in the crossfire from gang violence.

So lets not DISPROPORTIONATELY condemn one without condemning the other - which is EXACTLY what Take a Knee does.

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because criminals who ALSO kill black people, are violent..?

Anyone who condemns a handful of murders but IGNORES thousands of murders is a HYPOCRITE.

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Of course you do.

Total projection on your part.

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White Men's utter insecure effeminate cowardice IS at the heart of their continued war on the Black race, after all.

Apparently white men are so insecure they can even vote for a black President.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Upper_Krust on June 17, 2018, 01:21:30 PM
You've done so much to show how secure you are in this thread alone. You don't seem threatened by women. You don't seem threatened by minorities. You don't seem threatened by change in any form. You definitely don't seem like you've been extrapolating absolute nonsense from actual comics to shoehorn into your preformed opinion at all.

This is definitely a post made by someone who is NOT MAD or worked up in any way.

Female and minority protagonists have been a part of superhero comics for a long, long time. I’m assuming Upper_Krust is aware of this.

I'm becoming convinced Xerxes doesn't want a discussion/debate so he just resorts to personal attacks and smears.

About a decade ago I was buying the likes of Ms. Marvel (sexy Carol), She-Hulk (fun Jen) and Blue Marvel.  But no one wants preaching in their entertainment and Marvel are just dreadful right now.

Been giving the new DC titles a chance (I'm buying all of them), titles like Silencer (female John Wick-esque heroine) are cool (although I didn't like that JRjr left after 3 issues). The Terrifics (led by Mr Terrific) is interesting among others and so forth.

I guess I'm so 'threatened' by female characters and minority characters I BUY MULTIPLE BOOKS FEATURING THOSE CHARACTERS from DC COMICS who DON'T preach/force left-leaning politics into their comics.

LOL at SJWs.  ;D
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Upper_Krust on June 17, 2018, 01:25:52 PM
No, they've definitely forced some things in. You cited a couple of those and then extrapolated several more from your own distorted perceptions of the books.


Okay that's a start Xerxes. At least you are ADMITTING Marvel HAVE forced "some things in".

Now imagine you had been studying what they were doing for 5 years (as I have) and seeing the same trends over and over from them.

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You had to reach for some of the dumbest shit on The Donald and /pol/ to make the connections you made.

Not sure what you are referring to here, can you be more specific?
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Upper_Krust on June 17, 2018, 01:33:36 PM
You aren't actually trying for a debate. It's largely because you know you don't have a leg to stand on for the number of assertions you've made, but also because you really want to get those "leftists" and their "agenda".

"___ is a cuck now!" "___ is a soyboy now!" "___ had their ___ stolen by a woman/minority(but hopefully not both!")!" "____ is a low testosterone coward cuck now!"

Those aren't points. That's you whining.

Here's the thing, I'm not a lawyer building a case to present in this thread.

I stated before if someone wants a debate on Thor/Fem-Thor I'm good to go now.

When we start talking about the other characters (Spider-man's Cuckery for example) then its more 'anecodotal' evidence from the HUNDREDS of comics and comic reviews I have have read/watched over the past few years.

Now I fully admit I don't read every issue of Spider-man or watch a review on every issue so it could be everything is fine in those other issues. But here's the problem; I have seen the forced politics SO MANY TIMES from Marvel comics these past few years that its clearly not isolated incidents, its a near line wide agenda.

I DON'T see the same thing from DC Comics (that's not to say there is none at all, but its not the epidemic we see at Marvel).
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: MTL76 on June 17, 2018, 01:38:43 PM
One of the things that is so obnoxious about the current direction in comic books and related media is that they try to invalidate everything that came before them. They can’t claim to be progressive unless the field was “problematic” before they arrived.

So:

Black Panther is the FIRST black superhero star! (Not Blade or Spawn)

She-Hulk is finally starring in her own comic! (She had a solo ongoing for years)

Iceman is the first gay superhero out of the closet! (Northstar, Apollo, Midnighter... and they were never the walking stereotypes that Iceman was in his recent solo)

Comic books are finally dealing with issues like prejudice! (Claremont’s X-Men run was based heavily around this, even though he’s a *gasp* straight white male)

There have never been minority creators helming flagship titles! (Christopher Priest, Jim Lee, Larry Hama...)

Female characters have always taken a back seat to the males in the past! (Wasp led the Avengers, Storm led the X-Men, Susan Richards co-leads, and usually leads better than her husband, the Fantastic Four)

And so on.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Upper_Krust on June 17, 2018, 01:39:38 PM
Just a quick post to say I am enjoying this thread but I am off out with the girlfriend shortly and I won't be back until tomorrow so don't expect any replies til Monday at the earliest.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: therock on June 17, 2018, 01:41:27 PM
Ok you just stretch the term Communish to what it not actully is.  And the whole idea EVERYONE can be a hero. Is a thing as old as comics. Spiderman inspired that., Kyle Rayner who by the way replace hero who they turn evil was that, Robin inspired that.  Shazam inspired that. The whole we all have hero inside us all not a new thing.  That a trope that been around for generations. Multiple DC heroes been replace by someone. Captain Marvel herself was a replacement. There been multiple Robins and Flashes.  Multiple people had the Captain America role.  Agent Culson basicly an oridnary slub that got loved over the years. That maybe one day you will be the Wizard, the Jedi, working with batman or be batman.

When you have 10 different Spider-men it DILUTES what it means to BE Spider-man.

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Again not communism. If you somehow saying you meant that as a meme.  The meme doesnt even worked. Since it not delivered the same way as it did in the link you posted

Meme's evolve over time.

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And yous say most of the relationships are gay one. Which ones. You put stuff like that out. Like all the heroes being replace..when they actully not. What are the gay relationship. Can name the straight ones.


Iceman, X-23, Hawkeye, America Chavez, Viv Vision

vs.

Colossus (although with Kitty making all the moves), Falcon, Cage (although he's well under the thumb).

failed Cuckery: Spider-man, Dr Strange, Thor, Blade

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xena didnt put male charcter down. Most of these women havent.  She beat male character thought. Now a days it be "What the fuck dude. Xena beat up these Ares...who can go toe toe with Herucles a DEMI GOD. Xena doesnt even have any power..what is this Femnazia bullshit. Now she killing all the god. And of courser she followed around by that CUCK JOXTER..and they make Bruce Campbell play some Cuck idiot.  Hey news flash Gaberiell...to fucking skinny to take on 30 guys. 2 times her size.  That just SCIENCE ladies"

No one is complaining about Xena, I suspect this is just another red herring by you.

Bruce Campbell's character was for comedic relief.

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No it was during a time where this shit wasnt a big thing. But again it also was a fantasy that women loved. It why a lot of women loved Jessica Jones, Scandal, How to get away with murder, Wonder Woman,  Veronica mars. Because it cool women, bad asses. It ok to try to get that market along with guys.  DC superheros girls line selling great.

Jessica Jones was decent (funny how you complained yesterday about how a dickish detective would never work as a female).  ::)

WRONG AGAIN!  :D

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Moongirl and dinosuar doing great.

Well its not selling great but its probably a comic better suited to Kids Schools than LCBS.

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Girls into Manga..because it has romance, Some male eye candy for girls, and it has some powerfull women characters. Sorry but 50 Shades character is not the only female character that women like. Some into BDSM...some not. You cant base one FAP book on what women want. Bayonetta and Ivy from soul caliber popular..doesnt mean all men want to get whipped

We are not talking about Manga.

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As for some of your expamples

Wolverine - turned OLD, name STOLEN by a woman - who is better than him - see Generations

Old man wolverine was one the most popular stories of wolverine. Inspire LOGAN..one the best Xmen movie maybe THE BEST.  And the death was alreayd tempoary to sell comics. That girl wasnt just somethingf force on people.  She was brought on over the years, build up. And was popular in a block buster movie.

The Logan movie was great, but its still (movie star handsome) Hugh Jackman and he's not being overshadowed by X-23.

Read their generations comic.

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Luke Cage - total punk now, go read his recent comics

I read his comics. How it he a punk

I've seen the recent Defenders comic and Luke Cage comic, he's just terrible in both, extremely low testosterone.

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Tony Stark - put in a coma but brought back as AI to serve women, RiRi is said to be much better than him

Captain America - turned into a Nazi, inspired by muscly 'normal' woman in recent storyline

Again turn nazi by a comic cube.  a tempoary hero turns evil..or altnerate reality story. Been in comics since we were born. A termpoary. That fact people freaked out so much..like it was ever going to be a permanent thing is silly, It as if they never read a comic.

Pick whatever will damage a character's legacy the most and basically Marvel will run with it.

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Hulk - killed, name stolen by a woman

Also replace by a man, Replace by herucles. And She Hulk had the name for like a couple issue

Hercules jumped INTO an ONGOING Hulk comic...and it was renamed after 2 issues (or whatever).

She-Hulk was SPECIFICALLY started in her own series entitled HULK and the only reason that stopped was because of LOW sales. Virtually the entire 11 issues had her chasing down some idiots on a youtube cooking show.

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Thor - now a disabled, UNWORTHY, self-doubting cuck without Mjolnir.

Thor has been proven unworth multiple times. And Build himself back up to be a bad ass

Name one such time!?

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And Captain Marvel putting people in a prison..MEANT to be suspect. IT meant to be something your unesasy with. You dont want perfect Mary sues..but when they show some darkness or bad qualities..somehow it still part of the same Agenda.

Death isnt a vicrtim move. Neither is getitng cancer

Getting cancer doesn't mean you are playing a victim. Constantly reminding people that you had cancer WOULD mean you were playing a victim.

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Death meaning Jack shit and marvel is not a NEW thing. It not an SJW thing. The idea of Death meaning anything was smothered in its crib by the Xmen. You cant blame that on politics. Bucky and Jason Todd are back. Death is meaningless..doesnt matter if your a boy or a girl

If Death is so trivialized that you return from it the next issue then Marvel are fucking finished. Every fight is meaningless, every struggle is meaningless, every war is meaningless, every story is meaningless.

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Also where are all these unattractive women your talking about. Most still hot. Ok you dont like Ms marvel, Imagine She Hulk to muscler...again she ALWAYS been a beefy chick depending on who draws

They even turned She-Hulk into a man ffs.

Check out what she looks like in the latest Avengers comic compared to what she looked like 10 years ago.

Not only did they make her look like Hulk wearing a bra, she talks like Banner-Hulk now as well.  ::)

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Beside that two who. Is it the young Ms Marvel. Is she suspose to be a triple D knocked out.  It seem mostlydrawn the same. You still got the black widows, The x women, all these hot broads. One chick cuts her hair shot and people lose their shit

Women are not allowed to be sexy in Marvel comics any longer - that's a fact.

Its the same Far Left logic that recently ruined the Miss America pageant.


She Hulk was ALWAYS going to be called She Hulk again as soon as Hulk came back from the dead. Which he ALWAYS was going to.   The idea one story Where a comic cube turns Captain America Evil..only for him to come back and saves the entire fucking universe somehow ruin his legacy..mean you may of not seen shit like this

(http://bh-s2.azureedge.net/bh-uploads/2016/01/Capwolf-1-1050x566.jpg)

Its Age of Apploclyps basicly. Or When Spiderman got tempoary killed and taken over by Doc Ock for a long time.

Meme involve over time. Sure. But doesnt change the fact that Saying adding new character minorities even is COMMUNISM...is silly. That new meme your trying to make happen not going to happen anymore then fetch is.  Now you could of just said "Hey there not many force minority character"  Would of disagreed with the severity of that..sure. But you had to make it communism..to sale the idea of a far left Agenda. That not communism anymore Then stories about Santa Clause is Socialism

Ok you have a few gay relationships Vs, all the straight one that been around for a while

Luke and Jessica, Mr Fantasi and Sue, Spidemran and Spider Gwen,  Cable and Kitty, Daredevil various relantinship, Black bolt and Medusa, Vison and Scarlet witch, Rouge and Cable

And that assuming the few gay relationship going to remaind full time. And wont be a rotating set of love interested like every hero has


Well if if Females no longer alowed to be sexy in marvel.  It is a fact as you say. I mean LOOK at this ugly bitch

(https://i.annihil.us/u/prod/marvel/i/mg/2/40/5aea2f3fcc47e/detail.jpg)

Black window
Storm
Domino
Jean Grey
Most of the X women
Scarlet Witch

All drawn to be hot as fuck. One chick gets a short hair cut..and your saying there all manly. Yes in that one issue She Hulk drawn over muscles. It a bad cover. But In most of her apperance through the whole so called SJW pushed she was drawn as attactive. So the whole "Marvle cant have attrative women" Boils down to two chicks who may looked butch. One who always been a bodybuilder type

As For bringing up Manga. You say where talking about comics. But your the one who brought up 50 shades. Pointing out there a market for strong female character. Women and Girls like to read them. MARVEL likes to get that money.  They not trying to CUCK anyone..or pushed a Cummist agena.

Yes 10 spideman delutes it. But they aways been multiple spider people running around. SPIDER WOMAN for instnace not new. There was even a team of spider people called the web slingers. It doesn delute it anymore then multiple flashes, multiple Robins, A BATWOMAN, having multiple Green lanterns, multiple supermen,

It just those happen to be during the time where we didnt have this SJW VS ANTI SJW bitch fight that been going on in comics. You could HAVE a xena.  That not a red herring. No your not hating on it. But if she came around now people totaly would be
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: XerxesTWD on June 17, 2018, 01:44:02 PM
One of the things that is so obnoxious about the current direction in comic books and related media is that they try to invalidate everything that came before them. They can’t claim to be progressive unless the field was “problematic” before they arrived.

So:

Black Panther is the FIRST black superhero star! (Not Blade or Spawn)

She-Hulk is finally starring in her own comic! (She had a solo ongoing for years)

Iceman is the first gay superhero out of the closet! (Northstar, Apollo, Midnighter... and they were never the walking stereotypes that Iceman was in his recent solo)

Comic books are finally dealing with issues like prejudice! (Claremont’s X-Men run was based heavily around this, even though he’s a *gasp* straight white male)

There have never been minority creators helming flagship titles! (Christopher Priest, Jim Lee, Larry Hama...)

Female characters have always taken a back seat to the males in the past! (Wasp led the Avengers, Storm led the X-Men, Susan Richards co-leads, and usually leads better than her husband, the Fantastic Four)

And so on.
I agree with all of this.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Panthergod on June 17, 2018, 01:48:56 PM
..so you support taxpayer funded agents of the State disproportionately murdering Black people,

No I never said that or anything of the sort - this is pure projection on your part.

A corrupt and/or racist policeman DOESN'T condemn every policeman as corrupt and/or racist.

Just like a black criminal gang member DOESN'T condemn every black person as a criminal gang member.

People are individuals and have responsibility for their own actions.

.. Keep pretending that anyone is fooled by your convenient individualism.

You take issue in any way whatsoever to people refusing to salute symbols of continued state sponsored terrorism and murder. 

That says everything any sane person needs to know about your pathetic character.

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including 12 year old children playing in a park within 10 seconds,


Which is a terrible tragedy...but then again so are the innocent kids killed in the crossfire from gang violence.

So lets not DISPROPORTIONATELY condemn one without condemning the other - which is EXACTLY what Take a Knee does.

How the fuck to do you know..?

Taking a knee is exactly what it is, exclusively. You bringing in an entirely different subject is only proof that you seek to deflect for the purposes  ignore the subect at hand-- because it is within your interest to do so.

You support state sponsored terrorism against the black race, and you aren't fooling me.

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because criminals who ALSO kill black people, are violent..?

Anyone who condemns a handful of murders but IGNORES thousands of murders is a HYPOCRITE.

PROVE your stupid piece of shit premise than anyone condemning one crime is INHERENTLY ignoring another.

Right now.

Then, PROVE your stupid piece of shit premise that agents of the state committing murder and largely getting away with it for centuries to this very second against certain population groups  is equivalent to those civilians who are themselves disproportionately targeted by the state ALSO committing crimes against other citizens *also* disproportionately targeted by the state.

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Of course you do.

Total projection on your part.

Your cowardice isnt' fooling me. Thanks for demonstrating that the modern right wing are pussies who can't even be honest about their piece of shit hypocritical beliefs. condemning leftism for collectivism while worshiping the State like the mentally weak goosestepping servants of authority you've always been.

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White Men's utter insecure effeminate cowardice IS at the heart of their continued war on the Black race, after all.

Apparently white men are so insecure they can even vote for a black President.

Yes, a  coward who aids and abets the global economic war and terrorist campaign against Black people globally, including reintroducing slavery on Blacks, is exactly the type of dishonorable weakling White America would allow to be in office to serve their racist interests.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: MTL76 on June 17, 2018, 01:49:37 PM
One of the things that is so obnoxious about the current direction in comic books and related media is that they try to invalidate everything that came before them. They can’t claim to be progressive unless the field was “problematic” before they arrived.

So:

Black Panther is the FIRST black superhero star! (Not Blade or Spawn)

She-Hulk is finally starring in her own comic! (She had a solo ongoing for years)

Iceman is the first gay superhero out of the closet! (Northstar, Apollo, Midnighter... and they were never the walking stereotypes that Iceman was in his recent solo)

Comic books are finally dealing with issues like prejudice! (Claremont’s X-Men run was based heavily around this, even though he’s a *gasp* straight white male)

There have never been minority creators helming flagship titles! (Christopher Priest, Jim Lee, Larry Hama...)

Female characters have always taken a back seat to the males in the past! (Wasp led the Avengers, Storm led the X-Men, Susan Richards co-leads, and usually leads better than her husband, the Fantastic Four)

And so on.
I agree with all of this.

http://youtu.be/ryNj821535c (http://youtu.be/ryNj821535c)
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: therock on June 17, 2018, 01:52:48 PM
As for Why DC dont seem to get as much shit

Certain Replacment been grand fathered in. It was done before We had SJW, or Anti SJW making click bait. You had black green lanthern..an hawkgirl. And then they went...you know what we going to make them THE GREEN LANTERN..and the hawk person in our main show. And you know what Hal Jordan not going to be even brought up. And we going to have an interracial relationship. And where going to tossed in a Joke with the 40's era JSA saying  John one of the good ones. Also hawkgirl might be shown as one of the most powerfull people fighter on the team..try not to lose your shit internet. Was during the time you could do that.

But some of them got shit at the time. Firestorm, and Batwoman, asian Atom, Female Question who was a lesbian. But they baislcy just let the shit fly, and rode it out. Till eventully people calm the fuck down. Hell we had a specter who was a black guy for a while

And DC has a long history of heroes passing the torch.  I mean Wally was the main flash for a long ass, time even to the point they had kids. DC character have kids, familes..hair gray..so it agian easier to past shit down
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: MTL76 on June 17, 2018, 02:01:33 PM
While we’re at it...

The titles for Iceman, America Chavez, Mockingbird, Captain Marvel, Hulk (with She-Hulk) and Silk weren’t cancelled because fans are hateful bigots afraid of change. It’s because they were FUCKING AWFUL.

Readers like these characters. Or can like them. It’s the creators. Marvel keeps hiring creators - most of whom have little to no experience in the comic book field - who think their job is to tell stories based on identity politics instead of superhero adventures. People don’t want to read a superhero title where 80% of the comic is Iceman struggling to write the perfect Grindr profile. It’s fucking boring. America Chavez sitting through a gender studies class is fucking boring. These are supposed to be adventure stories. If there were a Spider-Man title where the majority of the story dealt with him dealing with his love life I’d drop that shit too.

Then, when sales tank, Marvel cancels the series and reboots it... with the same creative teams, who blame their shitty sales on the mongoloid fans. Fuck that.

Of course you can insert social issues into stories. Claremont did it back in the day, and Priest did it in his recent JLA run. But it was an accent, the icing on the cake. It didn’t become the main plot.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: therock on June 17, 2018, 02:22:43 PM
But there the thing. Most of Marvel comics...at the time were kind of shitting the bed. Miniority issues or not.

There been moves to broaden the landscape of charactere more. BIG moves...and most of them fail...but out of that failure you get a few people that survive and stay around for a while. Been the cycle of comics. Most new character fail. They just just do. But out of that failure come some ones that going to stay.  It seem Miles, Ms marvel, Spider Gwen..probally going to be around for a while..since they got a fan base.  I mean Silk wasnt htiting big number neither was the book Solo. But when that fails it just a shitty book that fails.

Marvel fucked up and  blame it on  "well guess people dont like minorities in there books"

Which cause multiple sides to Jump on that with what ever angenda they want. Which suck...because it make ever book that has a character that not a white male...hold to much on it shoulder...that they can't really hold. Its like being the first black guy on Jepordy where they like "Shit if I fuck up does that mean I be the last black guy on Jepordy"


Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: MTL76 on June 17, 2018, 02:32:12 PM
These aren’t “minority issues.” These are issues with creators with little to no experience in superhero comics not writing the adventure stories they were hired to write, and that readers wanted.

Miles Morales and Ms. Marvel are going to be around for a while because their creative teams wrote superhero adventure stories.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: therock on June 17, 2018, 02:53:33 PM
These aren’t “minority issues.” These are issues with creators with little to no experience in superhero comics not writing the adventure stories they were hired to write, and that readers wanted.

Miles Morales and Ms. Marvel are going to be around for a while because their creative teams wrote superhero adventure stories.


I agree

just saying it not as much a fault at forcing a liberal agenda as people making it out to seem. Nor is it readers a bunch o racist. Since a lot of run of mill regular white protaganist books failed to.  Both sides taking what the want out of the issue, All these think peices on the right or Left getting it wrong. It just thier voices are louder

Think it was a combo of bad writers, and multiple events. Like the Jane Foster book actully sold pretty well because of the art was kind of stunning, and the writing was good

Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Upper_Krust on June 18, 2018, 08:58:28 AM
She Hulk was ALWAYS going to be called She Hulk again as soon as Hulk came back from the dead. Which he ALWAYS was going to.
 

The point was that they purposefully called She-Hulk "Hulk" because of their far left politics. Just like RiRi's comic is "IronMan". X-23's comic is "Wolverine". Kate Bishop's comic is "Hawkeye". Jane-Thor's comic is still "Thor".

Do you see a trend?

Yes characters will comeback (in many cases because of sales) but these Diversity Swaps are positioned to damage and dilute what the original characters stood for.

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The idea one story Where a comic cube turns Captain America Evil..only for him to come back and saves the entire fucking universe somehow ruin his legacy..mean you may of not seen shit like this

It certainly damages his legacy.

Its akin to a smear campaign. Its like Xerxes repeating over and over about how insecure I am about women-lead titles in comics (and missing that I already BUY multiple such books).

Its like various scumbags on the internet repeating over and over how Ethan Van Sciver was (supposedly) a Nazi, its just a nonsensical smear tactic.

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Its Age of Apploclyps basicly. Or When Spiderman got tempoary killed and taken over by Doc Ock for a long time.

That was some body-swop story shenanigans (where Doc's mind was in Peter's Body IIRC ), not a politically motivated Diversity Swap.

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Meme involve over time. Sure. But doesnt change the fact that Saying adding new character minorities even is COMMUNISM...is silly. That new meme your trying to make happen not going to happen anymore then fetch is.  Now you could of just said "Hey there not many force minority character"  Would of disagreed with the severity of that..sure. But you had to make it communism..to sale the idea of a far left Agenda. That not communism anymore Then stories about Santa Clause is Socialism

Its pushing their left leaning agenda at Marvel that will inexorably take us down that path.

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Ok you have a few gay relationships Vs, all the straight one that been around for a while

Maybe things will quieten down after a while, I could just be over-reacting on this aspect of things, it just seems like a very lopsided push.

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Luke and Jessica, Mr Fantasi and Sue, Spidemran and Spider Gwen,  Cable and Kitty, Daredevil various relantinship, Black bolt and Medusa, Vison and Scarlet witch, Rouge and Cable

Few of which have been relevant these past decade.

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And that assuming the few gay relationship going to remaind full time. And wont be a rotating set of love interested like every hero has

Possibly. I'd say the market will eventually have its say. But Marvel just relaunch failed titles over and over again.

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Well if if Females no longer alowed to be sexy in marvel.  It is a fact as you say. I mean LOOK at this ugly bitch

(https://i.annihil.us/u/prod/marvel/i/mg/2/40/5aea2f3fcc47e/detail.jpg)

Black window
Storm
Domino
Jean Grey
Most of the X women
Scarlet Witch

Did I or did I not say they'll occasionally sneak in one attractive woman here or there.

You posted a nice pic of Carol in a previous post and then Imperial showed you a DOZEN pictures of a man-like Carol drawn by multiple different artists.

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All drawn to be hot as fuck. One chick gets a short hair cut..and your saying there all manly. Yes in that one issue She Hulk drawn over muscles. It a bad cover. But In most of her apperance through the whole so called SJW pushed she was drawn as attactive. So the whole "Marvle cant have attrative women" Boils down to two chicks who may looked butch. One who always been a bodybuilder type

Its FAR too many examples to be a coincidence.

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As For bringing up Manga. You say where talking about comics. But your the one who brought up 50 shades. Pointing out there a market for strong female character. Women and Girls like to read them. MARVEL likes to get that money.  They not trying to CUCK anyone..or pushed a Cummist agena.

I brought up 50 shades to disprove your point about women liking Power Fantasy (which most western superhero comics are).

I've never said women can't enjoy comics (or manga), but they don't have the same desire for power fantasy. Therefore when Marvel write their books in a style that 'might' interest women that aspect of the stories is sidelined or abandoned altogether. Recent Marvel comics seem to have adopted a 'SITCOM style' to their books where events don't matter and don't have any gravitas behind them.

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Yes 10 spideman delutes it. But they aways been multiple spider people running around. SPIDER WOMAN for instnace not new. There was even a team of spider people called the web slingers. It doesn delute it anymore then multiple flashes, multiple Robins, A BATWOMAN, having multiple Green lanterns, multiple supermen,

I would agree with you that multiple Flash's does dilute things (if they are each called Flash rather than Flash and Kid Flash). As far as I know only one person is called Batman...but we have two Spider-men, three Hulks, two Wolverines, Two Thors, three Ironmen, two Hawkeyes etc.

Do you see a Trend?

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It just those happen to be during the time where we didnt have this SJW VS ANTI SJW bitch fight that been going on in comics. You could HAVE a xena.  That not a red herring. No your not hating on it. But if she came around now people totaly would be

I don't know what point you are trying to make here. We didn't have SJW vs. Anti-SJW before because this political schism didn't exist before. As MTL76 pointed out we have had diverse characters for DECADES and everyone was fine with it.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Upper_Krust on June 18, 2018, 12:17:19 PM
.. Keep pretending that anyone is fooled by your convenient individualism.

Are you saying individuals do not have responsibility for their own actions?

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You take issue in any way whatsoever to people refusing to salute symbols of continued state sponsored terrorism and murder.

A 'dirty cop' is no more 'state sponsored' than a criminal on welfare.

Individuals are committing these crimes, its not state sponsored you buffoon. Most black people shot by police are actually shot by Black Policemen (and women presumably) - are you saying THEY are all racist too!? Good grief get a grip on reality.

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That says everything any sane person needs to know about your pathetic character.

It says that I condemn the taking of all innocent lives regardless of perpetrator...but seemingly you want to infer a handful of murders each year are far worse (and thus DEMAND protests and rioting) than THOUSANDS of murders each year.

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How the fuck to do you know..?

I have eyes.

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Taking a knee is exactly what it is, exclusively. You bringing in an entirely different subject is only proof that you seek to deflect for the purposes  ignore the subect at hand-- because it is within your interest to do so.

I'm specifically asking why do they protest a HANDFUL of murders each year BUT IGNORE (AND GLORIFY) THOUSANDS of murders caused thru criminality and gang violence.

That to me seems hypocritical...although in reality its the leftists attempts to undermine Authority I suspect.

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You support state sponsored terrorism against the black race, and you aren't fooling me.

Each year more white people are killed by police in America than Black people is that then State Sponsored terrorism against the white race?  ::)

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PROVE your stupid piece of shit premise than anyone condemning one crime is INHERENTLY ignoring another.

Right now.

Are you saying thousands of black people (many innocent victims) are NOT killed each year by gang violence and criminality?

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Then, PROVE your stupid piece of shit premise that agents of the state committing murder and largely getting away with it for centuries to this very second against certain population groups  is equivalent to those civilians who are themselves disproportionately targeted by the state ALSO committing crimes against other citizens *also* disproportionately targeted by the state.

"Getting away with it for centuries"...I think its obvious you are still dwelling on the past.

Crime statistics show that in the US Black people are 6-7 times more likely to commit violent crimes. THAT's why they are disproportionately targeted by police in things like stop & search, etc.

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Apparently white men are so insecure they can even vote for a black President.

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Yes, a  coward who aids and abets the global economic war and terrorist campaign against Black people globally, including reintroducing slavery on Blacks, is exactly the type of dishonorable weakling White America would allow to be in office to serve their racist interests.

Well we can debate the merits and failures of Obama another time, but I think my point highlights the nonsense of your earlier comments - although I agree that men (in general) are becoming more effeminate because of the leftist media, but that's an attack on all men, not just white men - although you could argue white men have a good headstart in that department.

I'm interested as to where you are saying Slavery is being reintroduced? Of course certain countries in Africa and the Middle East still have slavery, as opposed to the West which did away with it well over a century ago.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Upper_Krust on June 18, 2018, 12:32:11 PM
As for Why DC dont seem to get as much shit

They don't push their politics to anywhere near the same extent. That's why.

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Certain Replacment been grand fathered in. It was done before We had SJW, or Anti SJW making click bait. You had black green lanthern..an hawkgirl. And then they went...you know what we going to make them THE GREEN LANTERN..and the hawk person in our main show. And you know what Hal Jordan not going to be even brought up. And we going to have an interracial relationship. And where going to tossed in a Joke with the 40's era JSA saying  John one of the good ones. Also hawkgirl might be shown as one of the most powerfull people fighter on the team..try not to lose your shit internet. Was during the time you could do that.

Green Lanterns are 'Space Cops'. Its not an individual, its a profession. Personally I always liked John Stewart more than Hal, I just think it was because he had more depth - big fan of Cosmic Odyssey and the Justice League animated series.

Hawk Girl is (AFAIK) from a race of Hawk 'People' (Thanagarians or somesuch).

Spider-man is an INDIVIDUAL, same with Thor, Wolverine, Hawkeye and Hulk.

You could argue Captain America is a title though I suppose.

But the big thing is John Stewart was a good character and DC didn't take a shit on Hal's face just to introduce John.

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But some of them got shit at the time. Firestorm, and Batwoman, asian Atom, Female Question who was a lesbian. But they baislcy just let the shit fly, and rode it out. Till eventully people calm the fuck down. Hell we had a specter who was a black guy for a while

Yes DECADES AGO having a Black Male lead in a comic was SHOCKING because we hadn't seen it before (which actually gave it another level of cool). But not any more. Same thing with gay characters.

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And DC has a long history of heroes passing the torch.  I mean Wally was the main flash for a long ass, time even to the point they had kids. DC character have kids, familes..hair gray..so it agian easier to past shit down

You can organically change characters within the story (Rhodey taking over for Tony for a year for example) that don't involve the humiliation of the original.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Clownprince23 on June 18, 2018, 02:37:17 PM
One thing I can't stand is that if anyone has a legitimate criticism of something, they are automatically labeled a racist, sexist, or homophobic.

I read an article about the white privileged male fan base for Star Wars being upset over the casting and new direction of the franchise. But every example they gave of the harassment wasn't directed at their gender or race (at least in the article I read). One was about Daisy posting something about gun control, so obviously the poster was sexist. The biggest complaint I have with the new Star Wars is that Rey is a bit of a Mary Sue and that they seem to be tearing down everything that came before.


As far as making men more effeminate, that's something else that I hate and has been happening for a long time especially in tv. Just look at the male leads in most sitcoms, especially Everybody Loves Raymond. They have no spine and are used for comedic purposes.


I've been wanting to read Thor for a while. I liked the initial arc by Aaron with Gorr the god butcher but fell out from reading during the Malekith story line. I decided to just find a jumping on point and go for it so I started with issue 700. I don't know if I was being influenced by reading this thread but I can definitely see the points being made.
Title: Re: Comicsgate
Post by: Letters on June 18, 2018, 07:40:12 PM
Jelly, do you think all white people are racist?