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Entertainment => Music, Movies, Tv and Books => Topic started by: Prime on November 14, 2017, 10:27:21 AM

Title: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: Prime on November 14, 2017, 10:27:21 AM
Pre-emptively making the thread. Won't be seeing this until Friday in the early afternoon.

Although this spoilery review seems fairly legit:
https://youtu.be/4SqHV6zK5ac
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: DarthAlani on November 14, 2017, 01:20:50 PM
I will be seeing this Thursday at 6 west US time.

Spoilers are everywhere already and the post credits scenes have leaked.

Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: Bandido on November 14, 2017, 10:41:51 PM
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bbfw48ygGqn/?taken-by=justiceleague

Aquaman taking it to Steppenwolf.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: XerxesTWD on November 14, 2017, 10:58:34 PM
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bbfw48ygGqn/?taken-by=justiceleague (https://www.instagram.com/p/Bbfw48ygGqn/?taken-by=justiceleague)

Aquaman taking it to Steppenwolf.
I can't believe he completely laid Steppenwolf out with a single hit. WTF?!
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: Fifthchild on November 15, 2017, 10:34:25 AM
Early reviews seem to bounce between "flawed but fun" to "bloated and unnecessary". General consensus is

- not as bad as BvS
- The Flash is a standout
- Cyborg is super boring
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: Ditto on November 15, 2017, 10:35:39 AM
I saw metacritic had it at about 51 percent and flixster had it at about 48 percent. Rotten tomatoes has delayed their scores.

Also it’s projected to make 75 million less world wide than BvS.

I’m afraid to go see it.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: Abhilegend on November 15, 2017, 11:25:01 AM
Superman is pretty OP as per some spoilers.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: XerxesTWD on November 15, 2017, 11:41:55 AM
Most of the reviews are calling this a tonal reboot. If you skip MoS and BvS you won't be missing much because anything relevant from those is referenced accordingly and Whedon essentially saved the franchise.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: DarthAlani on November 15, 2017, 12:04:10 PM
Many reviewers are citing that they got the heroes very right in this including Superman but  Steppenwolf is also pointed out as being alright at best, bad by many.

Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: Fifthchild on November 15, 2017, 12:07:06 PM
In terms of raw footage about 15% of the film is Whedon apparently:

Quote
“The goal is to make sure when you’re watching the movie, it all feels cohesive. That imprint that Joss had, some aspect of it is going to come out in the direction, but the actors are already pretty much down the road on their arcs. Let’s just say 80, 85 percent of the movie is what was originally shot. There’s only so much you can do with other 15, 20 percent of the movie.”

A lot can change in the editing however (like the fact that Whedon apparently cut Luthor/Eisenberg completely out of the film).
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: Master on November 15, 2017, 12:10:45 PM
Here is what I heard from some people who saw an advanced screening on Monday:

Waaaaay better than BvS. Much closer in quality to WW, and we get another DCCU history lesson from the Amazons. Quick cameo of an alien GL fighting a battle with Earth allies against a prior Steppenwolf invasion.

Overall good action and CGI, but at times, Superman has noticeable lip CGIing to hide Cavil’s mustache. Also a few scenes where they go from on location to blatant green screen... probably because of Whedon doing some additional shots. The movie has a quick mention of some Atlantis stuff (beyond the main mother box plot) that likely hints at the Aquaman movie.

Flash is funny but relatively new to being a hero. Steppenwolf was described as “sassy” at times, but they couldn’t explain to me what exactly made him sassy. These people hated BvS, so this was a fairly glowing review.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: DarthAlani on November 15, 2017, 12:13:44 PM
Way better than BvS and SS is what I'm hearing too.   That is a win at this point.

There is no way Snyder should have anymore involvement in the DCEU going forward.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: Fifthchild on November 15, 2017, 12:51:27 PM
http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2017/11/15/justice_league_review_roundup_critics_on_the_latest_dc_comics_movie.html
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: Fifthchild on November 15, 2017, 01:24:56 PM
This whole "Rotten Tomatoes is intentionally holding back JLs score as long as possible" story is...interesting:

https://forums.boxofficetheory.com/topic/24625-justice-league-november-17-2017-review-embargo-has-lifted-pg511-for-the-daring-no-spoilers-allowed/?do=findComment&comment=3249317

(https://forums.boxofficetheory.com/applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=https://images.plurk.com/32HCve9J4ee7TQ4LaTx.png&key=c108ccc6cc62b8455b82eb8ec597ef7bc9cced1a775b405e0266f77ab734883c)
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: Bandido on November 15, 2017, 02:09:28 PM
http://comicbook.com/dc/2017/11/15/justice-league-rotten-tomatoes-score-leaks/

Dropping.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: superlurker on November 15, 2017, 02:39:33 PM
There was a leaked clip that's down now of Superman owning the rest of the League. Best part of the scene was probably when Flash was doing his speed thing and then notices that Superman can see him even though everyone else are like statues, which makes Flash sport a cute "oh shit" expression. Wonder Woman loses a headbutt contest against him, and Batman bleeds.

A lot can change in the editing however (like the fact that Whedon apparently cut Luthor/Eisenberg completely out of the film).

Luthor is apparently in a post-credit scene assembling an evil League of Evil, meeting up with Deathstroke for that.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: AP on November 15, 2017, 04:57:00 PM
This actually premiered last night in Korea and I didn't realize it.  We probably won't get around to watching it until Sunday as we have a huge Thanksgiving banquet to go to on Saturday and tomorrow is Punisher.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: DarthAlani on November 15, 2017, 09:54:40 PM
ICT is going nuclear tomorrow.

Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: superlurker on November 15, 2017, 10:10:45 PM
http://i.4cdn.org/co/1510794279083.webm

http://i.4cdn.org/co/1510793398771.webm
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: Prime on November 15, 2017, 10:33:48 PM
That cgi looks like shit.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: Bandido on November 15, 2017, 11:17:26 PM
http://i.4cdn.org/co/1510794279083.webm

http://i.4cdn.org/co/1510793398771.webm
Where did you get that?
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: XerxesTWD on November 15, 2017, 11:25:35 PM
http://i.4cdn.org/co/1510794279083.webm

http://i.4cdn.org/co/1510793398771.webm
Where did you get that?
He's a member of the Pirate Party in Iceland.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: AP on November 15, 2017, 11:40:20 PM
http://i.4cdn.org/co/1510794279083.webm

http://i.4cdn.org/co/1510793398771.webm

Is that the extent of the fight?  I was expecting a bigger brawl between the team and evil Supes.  I figured there would be at least three buildings toppled between Superman and Wonder Woman alone.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: superlurker on November 16, 2017, 07:50:29 AM
http://i.4cdn.org/co/1510794279083.webm

http://i.4cdn.org/co/1510793398771.webm

Is that the extent of the fight?  I was expecting a bigger brawl between the team and evil Supes.  I figured there would be at least three buildings toppled between Superman and Wonder Woman alone.

The fight goes like Superman standing around after being revived, not being quite himself, being approached by Aquaman, Cyborg, Flash and Wonder Woman. Cyborg's tech senses aggression in Superman, so it decides to shoot at him in self-defense, which starts the fight after Wonder Woman fails to talk him down with a heartfelt "Kal-El". Aquaman, Cyborg and Wonder Woman try to restrain Superman while Flash starts super-speeding to get behind him. Everything is standing still from Flash's perspective, but then he notices Superman's eye is moving and Superman pushes the other three off and starts to chase Flash around a bit at super-speed, eventually tripping him over. Batman appears (jogging on foot, in broad daylight, probably putting a lot of fear into the cowardly and superstitious) a bit after most of them have been punted off or whatever and calls out "Clark", which gets his attention. Wonder Woman tries to block him from getting at Batman with the "don't make me do this" routine, but loses in that headbutt contest. Finally he grabs Batman and does the "do you bleed?" routine before Batman is saved by Alfred bringing in his "big gun", Lois Lane, which calms Superman down. They're all calling him "Clark" in front of the police and stuff at this point.

The rest of the League obviously weren't trying very hard, but Superman wasn't exactly throwing the kinds of punches he did against Zod either. Without any other context, which may change things, he looked pretty dominant all things considered.

Supposedly, one part of the scene also involves them forgetting all about the Mother Box they used to resurrect Superman, which the villain just picks up from a nearby car.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: Gree on November 16, 2017, 08:09:56 AM
Kind of stupid to show him overpower the league
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: AP on November 16, 2017, 08:25:46 AM
I always got the impression Superman would save Warth more or less solo anyway so I’m not surprised to see him beating up the entire Leafue.

Fangirl will flip her shit.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: Fifthchild on November 16, 2017, 08:55:01 AM
Am hearing interesting things about the degree to which the attempt to CGI the moustache off of Cavill's face succeeded...I am intrigued.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: LiquidSailor on November 16, 2017, 09:17:59 AM

Luthor is apparently in a post-credit scene assembling an evil League of Evil, meeting up with Deathstroke for that.

They aren't still using Eisenjew/Jewsenberg for Luthor, are they?  He was the fucking absolute worst.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: 80sBaby on November 16, 2017, 10:08:56 AM

Luthor is apparently in a post-credit scene assembling an evil League of Evil, meeting up with Deathstroke for that.

They aren't still using Eisenjew/Jewsenberg for Luthor, are they?  He was the fucking absolute worst.

Yes, they are.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: Fifthchild on November 16, 2017, 12:32:58 PM
RT score is finally out - its 40% atm:

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/justice_league_2017
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: Fifthchild on November 16, 2017, 12:36:44 PM
In other news this shit is safado-ing the fuck out of Brazil apparently:

Quote
Justice League had the highest opening day ever in Brazil (12,9M local currency), beating out Twilight:BD2 (11M), Civil War (10,1M) and BvS (9,2M). It is also the best start of 2017 by far, beating FF8 (7,8M).

 

https://omelete.uol.com.br/filmes/noticia/liga-da-justica-bate-todos-os-recordes-em-estreia-no-brasil-confira-os-numeros/
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: Ditto on November 16, 2017, 02:39:33 PM
Safado is probably the only one actually watching it.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: XerxesTWD on November 16, 2017, 02:56:59 PM
Their best ranked movie was Twilight. Brazil is compromised.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: nu-safado on November 16, 2017, 04:29:06 PM
round the clock screenings with people bringing me food in the theater, I'm doing my part

Superman solo's Marvel :-)

All told I don't trust RT. I'm expecting to see it tonight and from everything I've heard what worked was the characterization (with one major complaint) and the plot was uneven. I expected that between Snyder doing 2/3 and Whedon another - that's two films in one so I'm not going to take T too seriously. I know I'm going to love this film but I'd be happy to see sDC get a little bit more love for the new tone its taking
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: XerxesTWD on November 16, 2017, 04:43:14 PM
It takes more than 15% of one movie to save this universe.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: superlurker on November 16, 2017, 05:01:29 PM
The full fight between Superman and the rest of the League, just in case someone wants to make a lot of money selling safado tissues.

https://streamable.com/2qkut
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: Liam Gallaghers Unibrow on November 16, 2017, 05:11:36 PM
Superman pretty casually overpowering Diana in a straight test of strength there despite using one arm vs her two. He looks waaaay beyond the other Leaguers there.

As an aside, some of that CGI looks pretty ropey to say the least.


Cheers.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: Gree on November 16, 2017, 05:44:14 PM
That’s some pretty shit acting all around
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: Bandido on November 16, 2017, 05:53:29 PM
I liked that Flash still looked quite a bit Faster.

And Aquaman got one shotted lol
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: HalloweenJack on November 16, 2017, 06:37:40 PM
shoulda said 'Martha'
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: Master on November 16, 2017, 07:39:53 PM
That return/fight scene is decent, but Cyborg’s CGI is horrendous. Holy shit.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: NeoGreenLantern on November 16, 2017, 09:23:12 PM
The movie was a better than ok! The Superman we got from the point of him showing up for the fight till the end is the Superman I've been smashing for!
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: scourge on November 16, 2017, 09:25:55 PM
Sucks that this movie is going to suck. Still going to see it
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: nu-safado on November 16, 2017, 09:30:59 PM
As a Superman fanboy, I loved that he finally got his Superman power moment - that was cool

On an aside, everything else was just about what I'd heard

The best part was the characterization - in just 7 minutes or so the characters managed to be funny, endearing and show who they are - WW was noble and courageous, Flash was funny (Pet Cemetery - the look on his face when he realizes he has a speed peer), Batman was quippy, Aquaman was hilarious.

Every review I've read has pointed out the film's unevenness, the bland genericness of Steppenwolf, and the obvious mistakes of things ike CGI'ing Cavill's porn star mustache etc....

On the other hand reviews have also pointed out the film's strength is in the characterization of each hero and the chemistry between them. I think I could see that in the clip. The audience was having fun - I think it's going to be a fun watch.

Cavill slipped into his British accent for a second there - I'm pretty psyched to see this tomorrow.

I hope this film gets some box office love. Looks far more light-hearted than the other (non WW) somber fare
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: Commander on November 16, 2017, 09:55:50 PM
Looks like this is the EOL for DC movies except Wonder Woman.

They will likely still go for Aquaman and/or Flash (then again with critics and fans taking the exit beeline from WB churning out a good movie)... but another League movie will likely have movie goers saying "Pass".

As almost all critics review and observation, the DCEU has been built on the foundation of melancholy and despair. Take a look at this samples when they united:

Avengers. Audience reaction: CLAP! CLAP! CLAP! <tweet!>

GotG: Audience reaction: "Yeah!"

Justice League: :| (muted response).

The only time a DCEU film got a reaction was when Wonder Woman made her battle entrance in BvS. Even the CWC heroes do better than their WB counterparts when they come out in groups.

I fault Warner Bros for never understanding DC Comics. They gave Zac Shitder too much leeway in building a dark and despair-ridden universe and now this has passed on to the League.

Hopefully, Patty J will continue to stay away from all of Shitder's universe and make her own path.

In DCEU, the "S" doesn't stand for Hope. It's stands for "Despair".
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: Big Daddy Longstroke on November 16, 2017, 10:48:03 PM
So was that Zeus hurling lightning at Steppenwolf?
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: NeoGreenLantern on November 16, 2017, 10:52:38 PM
Yeah he was listed in the credits. I enjoyed the few second we got of a GL.

Steppenwolf seemed like a significantly lesser threat at the end then when he was running ham on the Amazon's, Atlanteans, a couple of God's and a GL.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: nu-safado on November 16, 2017, 11:21:15 PM
Did we watch the same clip?

The audience was losing their collective shit, hooting and hollering, and that scene alone is worth the price of admission. ALA spoilers I know that Superman turns good, makes a grand entrance against Steeppenwolf, gets a lighter colored suit and the scene ends with batman making a funny joke. Even Aquaman was funny (stand out funny) getting one shotted "he's not ok!?!"

Everyone going into this film knew it was the official end of the Snyderverse and that Wonder Woman and Patty Jenkins are the beginning of new DC - the color pallette from this clip is cleaner than every DC film before this, the next two movies are James Wan - a winner of a director - and Aquaman, who by all accounts looks like he will redefine this character as underwater Thor (Ragnarok the fun one)

I have no idea how Shazam will shake out but the DCEU plan going forward - JL has been made and now they will find the best talent to make character driven films - sounds good.

Even the die-hard Marvel fanboys who normally loathe DC films have been giving grades like  pretty good to solidly entertaijning which coming from them is a glowing review

I even liked CYborg in that one clip.

Most distractingly bad thing in the film is Ben Affleck's personal life - otherwise solid win all around. Hell, Man of Steel 2 is looking like a win as well. With the new, hopeful portrayal, the due respect he's getting as fucking Superman, and likely Brainiac as a villain - it looks promising if a good director is found.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: DarthAlani on November 16, 2017, 11:45:21 PM
Things got much better in this especially the characters but by no means perfect.

Post credits scenes were top notch.

I look forward to a post Snyder DCEU.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: Commander on November 17, 2017, 12:10:46 AM
https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/justice_league_2017/

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/marvels_the_avengers

This is like Reggie Strickland vs Muhd Ali in their prime.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: Commander on November 17, 2017, 12:37:07 AM
Btw, in all the Michael Bay CGI Expo, that I got lost through the flash and bangs... what was the reason why Growlingwolf wanted to destroy the Earth?
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: Rynox on November 17, 2017, 01:44:13 AM
Did we watch the same clip?

The audience was losing their collective shit, hooting and hollering, and that scene alone is worth the price of admission. ALA spoilers I know that Superman turns good, makes a grand entrance against Steeppenwolf, gets a lighter colored suit and the scene ends with batman making a funny joke. Even Aquaman was funny (stand out funny) getting one shotted "he's not ok!?!"

Everyone going into this film knew it was the official end of the Snyderverse and that Wonder Woman and Patty Jenkins are the beginning of new DC - the color pallette from this clip is cleaner than every DC film before this, the next two movies are James Wan - a winner of a director - and Aquaman, who by all accounts looks like he will redefine this character as underwater Thor (Ragnarok the fun one)

I have no idea how Shazam will shake out but the DCEU plan going forward - JL has been made and now they will find the best talent to make character driven films - sounds good.

Even the die-hard Marvel fanboys who normally loathe DC films have been giving grades like  pretty good to solidly entertaijning which coming from them is a glowing review

I even liked CYborg in that one clip.

Most distractingly bad thing in the film is Ben Affleck's personal life - otherwise solid win all around. Hell, Man of Steel 2 is looking like a win as well. With the new, hopeful portrayal, the due respect he's getting as fucking Superman, and likely Brainiac as a villain - it looks promising if a good director is found.

Have you considered a career in public relations? I think you've got what it takes.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: Strange on November 17, 2017, 02:03:27 AM
Jesus, I'm going to go see this but that footage looked awful.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: Insane Titan on November 17, 2017, 05:52:41 AM
My God The JL looked weak as shit against Superman.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: DarthAlani on November 17, 2017, 11:21:15 AM
Film is flopping big time. Well deserved after the Snyder shit show.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: Prime on November 17, 2017, 04:16:15 PM
Just saw the movie. It was good, a bit too short. Finally get a properly written Superman. Superman is pretty clearly depicted to be in a League of his own compared to the rest of the team, Wonder Woman included. Definitely gives you the impression that Superman could beat Steppenwolf all on his own. Cyborg cgi was up and down. Aquaman and Flash were great. This movie could have used another half hour of character development. But good movie all in all. 4 out of 5 stars for me.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: DarthAlani on November 17, 2017, 04:22:13 PM
Its a big improvement over BVS with Superman and Flash being the standouts.  I liked Cyborg more than I thought and Momoa was good for what he had.

Now they need to take their time and get these characters even more fleshed out.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: Prime on November 17, 2017, 04:31:22 PM
Same here as it pertains to Cyborg. Even though I went in with low expectations, Cyborg was actually really good. All of the individual characters were good honestly.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: DarthAlani on November 17, 2017, 04:33:20 PM
That made the movie for me.  The JL really stood out.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: XerxesTWD on November 17, 2017, 05:05:44 PM
Btw, in all the Michael Bay CGI Expo, that I got lost through the flash and bangs... what was the reason why Growlingwolf wanted to destroy the Earth?
There was something about creating a hyperspace bypass and Earth was in the way.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: NeoGreenLantern on November 17, 2017, 05:11:43 PM
The demolition plans were posted in Alpha Centauri. Its the humans fault for not getting involved in local affairs.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: Bandido on November 17, 2017, 06:24:11 PM
So where are we, battle board wise?
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: Prime on November 17, 2017, 06:33:53 PM
Superman is clearly a cut above Wonder Woman. Superman has genuine super speed and not speed bursts like some idiots on here kept saying because of how super speed was depicted in man of steel. Superman debuted his freezing breath to freeze Steppenwolf's axe so Diana could shatter it.

Amber Heard's smoking hot rating is over 9000. Positively boneriffic.

Flash is pretty fast it seems, but is super awkward and gets tripped up a lot. Also has none of the esoteric speed force abilities. He is basically run really fast and gives off a ton of electricity man.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: Fifthchild on November 17, 2017, 07:10:12 PM
Its too early to be very accurate but it seems to be heading towards a $97 million opening weekend.

To put that in perspective
 - its about the same as the first Iron Man movie (and much less when you factor in a decades worth of ticket inflation)
 - its less than Man of Steels $116 million
 - it would be less than Wonder Woman, Spiderman Homecoming, Thor Ragnarok, GOTG 2 though higher than Logan

http://deadline.com/2017/11/justice-league-opening-weekend-box-office-lower-thor-ragnarok-wonder-the-star-1202211094/

Anyway we'll have to see how this plays out but if its comes in under $100 million and the legs are about what you expect then i think the consequences for the DCEU going forwards could well be pretty major (and not just in a "more jokes"/"different directors" way).
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: DarthAlani on November 17, 2017, 07:25:27 PM
It could even do sub-$90 million at this point.  A huge flop.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: DarthAlani on November 17, 2017, 07:46:56 PM
Superman is far faster than WW and nearly on par with the Flash.  He easily overpowered the entire league and later Steppenwolf.

He carried with ease and entire apartment building and pulled apart the motherboxes.

Bruce referenced him as stronger than a planet.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: Bandido on November 17, 2017, 08:18:10 PM
Stronger than a planet, lol
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: 80sBaby on November 17, 2017, 08:41:15 PM
That's just accurate, "comic book" jargon for plot-device strength. Supes is Top Dog in any universe, period.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: Bandido on November 17, 2017, 08:52:32 PM
http://comicbook.com/dc/2017/11/16/justice-league-box-office-thor-ragnarok-warner-brothers-competition/

Fatality
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: Gree on November 17, 2017, 09:42:08 PM
Superman is far faster than WW and nearly on par with the Flash.  He easily overpowered the entire league and later Steppenwolf.

He carried with ease and entire apartment building and pulled apart the motherboxes.

Bruce referenced him as stronger than a planet.

What is the point of the team then
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: Master on November 17, 2017, 09:50:34 PM
Spoil me  After Supes is resurrected, why doesn’t he just solo Step?
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: 80sBaby on November 17, 2017, 10:06:31 PM
Spoil me  After Supes is resurrected, why doesn’t he just solo Step?

From what I'm hearing
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
 .
.
.
.
 .
 .
.
.
.
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He basically does.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: superlurker on November 17, 2017, 10:33:32 PM
What is the point of the team then

To resurrect Superman, so he can come flying in and easily save them when they're getting their asses kicked.

Other than that, the team is there to show that Superman is stronger than all of them put together, that he's about as fast as Flash and that when Flash rescues a car with four people, Superman rescues an entire apartment block; that he can ask about menstruation habits just like Batman and is a better man than Batman in general; that he stands for truth (and justice too) so they don't really need Wonder Woman's lasso of truth (or a league for justice); that he can single-handedly and easily beat up the bad guy that gave the team a hard time (after saving the aforementioned apartment block he basically comes back and goes "is this guy still giving you a hard time?" and proceeds to beat Steppenwolf up); and that he has to pull apart the doomsday plot device, the disassembly of which was originally basically Cyborg's one job to justify being on the team. Aquaman doesn't even talk to fish anyway, so he basically gave up without even trying to look useful.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: nu-safado on November 17, 2017, 10:35:07 PM
From a box office POV huge change is inevitable. The films aren't making Marvel "oh, another billion...cool" money but they are consistently getting into the 500-900 million dollar area. That is way too much money to stop making DC films.

What we have seen is that DC is getting it right in characterization, costumes (how many Harley Quinns did we see at Halloween?), and has the seeds for great franchises

We've also seen that when great directors are given free reign to make great films - they do. patty Jenkins made a WW that is getting legit Oscar buzz. Suicide Squad was a hot, burning mess - but Harwely Quinn and arguably Deadshot were legit stars as is Viola Davis.

My guess is that DC will worry less about continuity and just worry about making individual one-off films. Cavill looks to have nailed it as Superman (I've seen mostly spilers not the movie - about 9 minutes worth of clips) MOS 2 will likely be a more cosmic Brainiac story.

James Wan has everything necessary to make a smash Aquaman if he can reign in Jason Mamoa's worst instincts and stay on target.

WW is already a success.

Ironically Batman is doing horribly - I hate to say it but Affleck is not helping, Jared Leto was one of two disastrous casting choices (Zukcerberg?) and Affleck the individual is overshadowing the character

Ezra Miller could do a solid Flash movie with a great scriot and director and I've heard good things about Cyborg.

In short, it feels like the death knell for the Synderverse but turning the page into a classic, DC archetypal, mythological universe that can draw real talent to mythological style hero's.

Martin fucking Scorcese wanted to do a Joker movie . If Warner let's the creative have real control I think the lighter tone of the movie could sell the DC fans and possibly convicne the die hard marvels to give the new stuff a shot - if Dc doubles down on the all flash no substance dire Snyder-verse, yeah it's done. I just saw a clip of the end credits scene and Superman s color palette finally changed so I am cautiously optimistic
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: DarthAlani on November 17, 2017, 10:43:01 PM
I agree about focusing on solos at this point to try and repair the damage.  I would also not mind Ben being recast. 

Flashpoint could be a soft reboot of the whole thing.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: superlurker on November 17, 2017, 10:54:10 PM
Spoil me  After Supes is resurrected, why doesn’t he just solo Step?

He takes a bit of time spent with Lois Lane (the thirstiest woman he ever met, according to Ma Kent) to get his brain properly rebooted. He's a bit fussy on the details before that, so he just kicks the League's ass and flies away with Lois Lane.

After that, he shows up and saves the day just as the fight against Steppenwolf was going pretty badly for the team. 

Basically, Steppenwolf is like a Discount Zod who only showed up because Superman was dead (which made the world turn to fearful, despairing shit).

The movie is sort of like two hours of Superman wanking. I guess this is because the movie both has to serve to introduce the League and to be the scene of Superman's resurrection, which are pretty much mutually exclusive goals because the former requires showing why teamwork is necessary to face a common threat but the latter requires showing why Superman is so special to make it more than just reviving some random team member.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: nu-safado on November 17, 2017, 11:19:19 PM
I agree.

Flashpoint could keep everything thats working and dump everything that isn't

Drop Affleck, wake up in a DCverse where Superman has a ligh4ter palette, WW is WW, James Wan directs Aquaman, And the Rock makes an awesome Black Adam appearance

I'd laos like to point out that it's early to predict JL doom here. The Fast and the Furious cleared 1 billion but barely made 200 million domestically.

If JL underperforms domestically and does a standout job abroad it could hit a healthy 800 million. If it has kegs, and to be honest, I'm niot hearing many "it's awful reviews, it could eke out a better total if it does alright domestically.

The current DC films aren't going to make Marvel/Disney money - there will have to be a lot of reconfiguring for that - it could eventually get there if the good is kept and the rest is dropped (seriously Affleck - how could you torpedo this)

If JL beats Suicide Squad it isn't a disaster. If it picks up a little steam - it might suprise us
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: Strawman Abridged on November 18, 2017, 12:27:32 AM
Btw, in all the Michael Bay CGI Expo, that I got lost through the flash and bangs... what was the reason why Growlingwolf wanted to destroy the Earth?
There was something about creating a hyperspace bypass and Earth was in the way.

The pesky backwater Earth natives were obstructing Darkseid's plans for a cosmic Keystone Pipeline, if you will.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: DarthAlani on November 18, 2017, 02:38:09 AM
Thor:Ragnorak is looking to wipe its ass with the opening of JL.  In fact the opening won't even be close.

The DCEU is dead, bury it.  Disney/Marvel will show no mercy.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: altoon on November 18, 2017, 03:18:38 AM
Let's wait the early bo has been wrong before.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: Fifthchild on November 18, 2017, 05:25:53 AM
From a box office POV huge change is inevitable. The films aren't making Marvel "oh, another billion...cool" money but they are consistently getting into the 500-900 million dollar area. That is way too much money to stop making DC films.

...

In short, it feels like the death knell for the Synderverse but turning the page into a classic, DC archetypal, mythological universe that can draw real talent to mythological style hero's.

Martin fucking Scorcese wanted to do a Joker movie . If Warner let's the creative have real control I think the lighter tone of the movie could sell the DC fans and possibly convicne the die hard marvels to give the new stuff a shot - if Dc doubles down on the all flash no substance dire Snyder-verse, yeah it's done. I just saw a clip of the end credits scene and Superman s color palette finally changed so I am cautiously optimistic

I think this is overly optimistic. Its not like audiences have an endless appetite to go back and see WB try to get a cinematic DCU/Justice League right or like WB have a bottomless pot of gold with which to finance it. We are 5 films in now and BO returns seem to be significantly eroded by past failures. Nobody knows anything for now but rumours are that everything is on hold while WB watches what happens with JL - the exceptions being WW 2 (obvious reasons), Aquaman (already filmed), and Shazam (seen as sufficiently distant/independent from JL).

https://theplaylist.net/rumor-dc-wonder-woman-universe-20171117/

http://collider.com/the-batman-casting-rumors-matt-reeves

Basically WB feel that they made a mistake by going all in with a bunch of announcements/major decisions before they knew that they had a viable product/idea.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: Uhtceare on November 18, 2017, 05:30:26 AM
Spoil me  After Supes is resurrected, why doesn’t he just solo Step?



The movie is sort of like two hours of Superman wanking. I guess this is because the movie both has to serve to introduce the League and to be the scene of Superman's resurrection, which are pretty much mutually exclusive goals because the former requires showing why teamwork is necessary to face a common threat but the latter requires showing why Superman is so special to make it more than just reviving some random team member.

One wonders why they are so determined to make one of their least interesting characters into the heart and soul of the movieverse?
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: NeoGreenLantern on November 18, 2017, 09:30:05 AM
To their credit (Most likely Joss Whedon) the Superman we get from the point of him showing up for the big fight on is the Superman people want personality-wise.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: Master on November 18, 2017, 10:59:23 AM
Well, I am glad to hear that. Maybe DC/WB will let Whedon do a Supes Movie. The man knows his comics and definitely keeps things light and fun. He may not give us the best Superman movie ever, but I think a solid 7.5/10 would help keep the franchise strong.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: Master on November 18, 2017, 11:00:52 AM
Spoil me  After Supes is resurrected, why doesn’t he just solo Step?

He takes a bit of time spent with Lois Lane (the thirstiest woman he ever met, according to Ma Kent) to get his brain properly rebooted. He's a bit fussy on the details before that, so he just kicks the League's ass and flies away with Lois Lane.

After that, he shows up and saves the day just as the fight against Steppenwolf was going pretty badly for the team. 

Basically, Steppenwolf is like a Discount Zod who only showed up because Superman was dead (which made the world turn to fearful, despairing shit).

The movie is sort of like two hours of Superman wanking. I guess this is because the movie both has to serve to introduce the League and to be the scene of Superman's resurrection, which are pretty much mutually exclusive goals because the former requires showing why teamwork is necessary to face a common threat but the latter requires showing why Superman is so special to make it more than just reviving some random team member.

Next question: So Superman outperformed the combined power of a GL, the Amazons, Atlantis, and the Greek Gods?
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: NeoGreenLantern on November 18, 2017, 11:19:06 AM
mmm No. There was a lot larger force that attacked Earth when the combined Army's faced off against Steppenwolf.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: Prime on November 18, 2017, 11:55:57 AM
Yeah, when Diana tells Batman the story of Steppenwolf she specifically says his mistake was attacking the earth first. This time around he would just go for the mother boxes in surgical strikes.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: nu-safado on November 18, 2017, 03:08:34 PM
I think the mistake is comparing DC to Marvel. Marvel is a Disney company, is well into an 18 film shared universe with people invested in the actors, olotline and future installmetns. It's a successful tv show in movie form acting on a larger scale

DC is still making a load of money. Suicide Squad - bad flick with bright spots in certain stand out characters - 850 million.
Wonder Woman - close to 900$, As bad as Superman batman was, its still a near 900 milion dollar film. That's not X Men money

BO numbers today had an enormous return internationally. What we see is that US audiences are demanding change and wny shouldn't they

Dreary, soulless Snyderverse

A batman who is in one day, out the nexct and maybe caught up in the Hollywood sex scandal. Battfleck is distracting - I liked him at first but I can't watch him without seeing Ben Affleck cosplaying and showing up in tabloids.

Films that are stylistically deaf to creators and controlled by studio mandate - Warner as a studio is immensely loyal to in-house talent which occasionally is an awful recipe for great filmmaking

I'm a little suprised that anyone thought this film would be anything other than lukewarm to good. Audience scores on RT were a solid B+.  Critics are getting a litle power hungry in how savage they're being with films. I get that the film isn't perfect, but lower than 40% is vindictive - although I don't know what the score is now

If people like the indivudal characters enough to follow the stand alones coming up while Flash Flashpoint can retcon things that don't work the film has done its job. Audiences are sophisticated - if DC clearly shifted its tone, Snyder is gone, and peoplle start hearing the right announcements the die-hard DC fans will come out - the real question will be casual moviegoers and the occasional Marvel die-hard

IMHO DC will regain the casual moviegoers and with effort, marvelites will join up partially. There's good stuff coming up

Aquaman, WW, Shazam future MOS and a new Batman plus Nightwing, and other potential projects are all potentially fantastic. hell, who would have thought Aquaman would have been reimagined and gotten a direvto rlike James Wan

This all feels very inevitable to me and its not as bad as I imagined. 83 millio today - 119 total and its Saturday afternoon. Global could end up at 200 million

I never thought DC had a chance against  THir comedy with Loki, Hulk and other Marvel superstars init. Marvel as of current has so many stars that every solo film with a team up is a de facto JL.

DC not getting the same BO isn't bad as long as the films make money - and they are, and the films are moving in a pisitive direction that fans will look forward to. Eventually they will have built up the goodwill that several years of a shared universe rbrings.



Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: Rage.Of.Olympus on November 18, 2017, 03:49:20 PM
Why did Diana and Bruce act like Superman was one of their closest friends? It was so confusing.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: NeoGreenLantern on November 18, 2017, 03:54:14 PM
Because fighting a giant killer monster together forges an unbreakable bond or because WB/DC wants to cut corners. Take your pick.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: altoon on November 18, 2017, 04:01:07 PM
To their credit (Most likely Joss Whedon) the Superman we get from the point of him showing up for the big fight on is the Superman people want personality-wise.

Agreed though Batman seemed to take a step backwards for me. Overall I liked the heroes more or less (except for the flash just could get into the guy playing him) the story was really badly done and some really bad CGI (Cyborg hurt my eyes) and many points.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: Uhtceare on November 18, 2017, 04:11:59 PM
Kay, just got back from seeing it.

The movie felt like a bit of a rip-off. Motherboxes in place of infinity gems. Batman resurrecting Superman out of guilt in place of Iron Man creating Vision out of guilt. (the resurrection even had a similar lightning scene to Vision's creation) Heroes saving civilians while fighting the bad guy at the same time.

So yeah, a big rip-off, but that wasn't really its problem imo. All superhero movies are pretty formulaic, after all. No, what killed it was a lack of charisma from the actors.

 I never bought Batfleck's guilt the way I did Stark's guilt over Ultron.

 You could dig up Christopher Reeves paraplegic bones and they'd still have more charisma than Caville. That's extremely detrimental, because you need to buy his resurrection is a wonderful moment, and I just don't.

 Hiddleson utterly dwarfs that CGI thing in terms of charismatic villains.
 
Jason Momoa's goofy barbarian is boring shit compared to Hemsworth's goofy barbarian.

Just the whole acting caste feels B-list at best compared to the Avengers. It's a team of Jeremy Renners. Christ, the CW actors have more charisma than this bunch.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: NeoGreenLantern on November 18, 2017, 04:15:15 PM
To their credit (Most likely Joss Whedon) the Superman we get from the point of him showing up for the big fight on is the Superman people want personality-wise.

Agreed though Batman seemed to take a step backwards for me. Overall I liked the heroes more or less (except for the flash just could get into the guy playing him) the story was really badly done and some really bad CGI (Cyborg hurt my eyes) and many points.

I like the Flash but it was because he really wasn't Barry. He was more like Bart.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: Rynox on November 18, 2017, 04:56:48 PM
It's a team of Jeremy Renners.

Hahahaha
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: Bandido on November 18, 2017, 05:30:27 PM
It's a team of Jeremy Renners.

Bro, harsh
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: LiquidSailor on November 18, 2017, 05:46:32 PM
What plot device did they use to resurrect Superman?  Chicken soup IV?
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: AP on November 18, 2017, 07:00:13 PM
It's a team of Jeremy Renners.

Bro, harsh

Except even Hawkeye has had character building moments.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: NeoGreenLantern on November 18, 2017, 09:17:52 PM
What plot device did they use to resurrect Superman?  Chicken soup IV?

....yeah kinda
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: nu-safado on November 18, 2017, 10:14:26 PM
I just got back and I really enjoyed it.

It was clearly a turning the corner movie and this felt like Superman's first appearance on film in the modern age. Nailed it in power and personality

Ezra miller was a ham as Flash, but if reigned in he could be good and I think people are being quite harsh. It took Hemsworth a lot of awful films to finally nail the tone of Thor.

Loved the characters, the film felt uneven and the villain was awful which seems to be a serious DC problem but overall it hit the rigth notes to start over
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: INDRA THUNDERER on November 18, 2017, 11:54:19 PM
It took Hemsworth a lot of awful films to finally nail the tone of Thor.


disingenous??smh Hemsworth nailed the tone of Thor from the start,as did Hiddleston with Loki.The only way you wouldn't have enjoyed this film is if Superman wasn't in it!
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: AP on November 19, 2017, 01:51:01 AM
I just saw it.  It was okay but you could tell they cut a lot out of it.

THE GOOD:

They finally turned Superman into an inspirational hero as Henry Cavill smiled more in this movie than BvS and MoS combined. 

Flash and Aquaman were fun to watch, even if they were under used. 

Gal Gadot was awesome as always as Wonder Woman. 

There was some nice world building going on.

THE BAD:

Batman was oddly useless aside from Clark's resurrection and getting the team together.

The action was typical Zack Snyder fuckery where I wasn't sure where people were in relation to each other and there was just a lot of light and sound.

The thing was only two hours long but felt like it was an hour and a half.  It was insanely rushed.  For instance, there's a scene where the team is hanging off the wall of a sewer, then Cyborg flies off and leaves them, then Cyborg returns at Batman's HQ with a Motherbox somehow, then Batman's like "Hey we can use this to bring back Superman".  Then they do.

They REALLY needed solo movies for Aquaman and Flash at least.  They have two quick scenes with Flash's dad and I didn't care that the dude was in prison because I wasn't introduced to him in any meaningful way. Then there's the scene where Mera and Aquaman discuss Atlantean politics and history and it meant nothing to me.  There was no dramatic punch to any of it.

The Parademons were more interesting than Steppenwolf.  That's how boring Steppenwolf is.

Cyborg should have been a sympathetic character or at least interesting as he had a unique powerset.  He was neither.  He's almost as bland as Steppenwolf.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: AP on November 19, 2017, 02:29:25 AM
It took Hemsworth a lot of awful films to finally nail the tone of Thor.


disingenous??smh Hemsworth nailed the tone of Thor from the start,as did Hiddleston with Loki.The only way you wouldn't have enjoyed this film is if Superman wasn't in it!

Yeah, Hemsworth and Hiddleston were famous precisely because they played Thor and Loki.  The first two Thor movies weren't the best MCU films but even they were fresh on all the review sites, the fans were mostly positive if lukewarm, and they made their projected gross.  None of the Thor movies got the hate that BvS got.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: Bandido on November 19, 2017, 02:30:16 AM
Who okay-ed the Steppenwolf CGI?! - Ouch.

It was fun, felt rushed, but fun and I would see a sequel.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: Uhtceare on November 19, 2017, 02:34:17 AM
Hemsworth and Hiddleson basically carry the Thor movies, allowing the audience to ignore flaws because you want to see more of these two guys. The caste of Justice League couldn't carry a feather.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: Bandido on November 19, 2017, 02:51:30 AM
Hemsworth and Hiddleson basically carry the Thor movies, allowing the audience to ignore flaws because you want to see more of these two guys. The caste of Justice League couldn't carry a feather.

Yeah, Hemsworth, Hiddleston, the writing, production value, etc...
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: altoon on November 19, 2017, 04:52:06 AM
Who okay-ed the Steppenwolf CGI?! - Ouch.

It was fun, felt rushed, but fun and I would see a sequel.

I have no interest in a sequel with that Luther.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: Uhtceare on November 19, 2017, 05:10:26 AM
Hemsworth and Hiddleson basically carry the Thor movies, allowing the audience to ignore flaws because you want to see more of these two guys. The caste of Justice League couldn't carry a feather.

Yeah, Hemsworth, Hiddleston, the writing, production value, etc...

The writing? The first Thor movie was basically Beastmaster 2: Through the Portal of Time. Hemsworth and Hiddleson are just so damned good that you don't care that the writing is Beastmaster 2 with the serial numbers filed off.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: Fifthchild on November 19, 2017, 09:20:31 AM
Just saw it.

Went in with low expectations obviously - overall verdict is that it was OK. The most striking feature of the film is its un-evenness however. And i found myself unable to stop wondering which parts were Whedon and which parts were Snyder and which parts were Snyder trying to make a film that wasn't like Batman vs Superman.

The Good

Superman - In almost every scene this feels basically like Superman and not some random alien with Superman's powers. The difference in his costume is ridiculous also - the Snyder desaturation is gone and so his cape is actually red, the costume actually blue etc. I liked the brief use of the John Williams theme also after he is brought back to life.

AquaBro worked IMO which was surprising cos i've never liked Nu-Aquaman. But Momoa was surprisingly likable and at times comedically capable.

Despite reports about him being boring I thought Cyborg was pretty decent at least as so far as the guy playing him was pretty good.

Jeremy Irons was good - probably the one actor who never comes across as seeming a little bit silly delivering any of his lines.

The Bad

Again the worst thing about the film is that it feels so piecemeal and uneven. Theres a scene between Lois and Martha near the beginning that looks like it was written and shot in about 15 minutes - it could be an outtake from The Office. Stuff like this really sticks out when other parts of the film are visually very slick. Theres a scene with a ton of exposition around the Motherboxes which has an incredibly awkward cut to Bruce and Diana walking around the lake at Wayne Manor - it almost seemed like it was supposed to be a joke of some kind.

Steppenwolf seemed OK to me given how much people hate him but he just feels too insignificant a threat by the final act. It really feels like Superman could have beaten the shit out of him by himself and that it wouldnt really be much of an effort for him either. The fact that a bunch of fucking Parademons take him out at the end doesnt really help when we see Batman handle them at other times.

The final shot of the team looking over ButtFuckalonia smiling while weird alien lifeforms grow is kind of horrendous - and sort of serves as a symbol of how much they havent sold the idea of this group as a team. Batman looks like Lego Batman given how much armor and padding they've shoved in - I doubt Affleck could fully lower his arms at that point.

Superbreath comes out in the final act :-\

Clark Kent's corpse being carried into the Kryptonian Birthing Chamber looked kind of icky, even in long shot.

The Other

Superman is crazily overpowered relative to the rest of the team. Hes basically as fast as The Flash (he seems slower earlier), overpowers Aquaman/WW/Cyborg at the same time etc. Without Superman it would have seemed like a heroic but not insurmountable challenge for the team to beat Steppenwolf - when he shows up its a foregone conclusion.

The Flash is surprisingly fucking useless power-wise. He literally trips over his feet, he gets shot in the leg and is then apparently completely helpless and has to be carried out of battle by someone else.

Power levels in general seemed pretty inconsistent. At one point Barry is falling or something at full superspeed and Batman saves him by catching his leg with a rope.

Character wise Flash is really hit and miss. He had some good moments ("Hi Barry, I'm Diana", exploing the Batcave) but at other times he was just the comic relief guy who would say a line that wasnt funny enough to actually make you laugh.

Batman being a Batdick for the sake of building a team is something that doesnt seem to have worked for many people ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

JK Simmons hardly does anything.

It is striking how much the public perception of Affleck/WW seems to have changed how people reacted to these two. After BvS there was almost universal sentiment that Affleck as Batman was one of the few decent things about the film while a lot of people though Gadot was pretty terrible when she had to talk/act and not fight. I still havent seen WW but i cant say my own opinion of Gadot has changed. Shes not awful here but at times it felt like I was watching some random former model with an accent and 6 months of acting courses Melania Trump their way through the role.



All in all it has a very weird feel which no doubt reflects the fact that it was originally two films with one director before being one film with two directors. The biggest consequence of this might be that it feels less consequential somehow - maybe thats due to the fact that there was hardly any real world hype for the film though, hard to say.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: Fifthchild on November 19, 2017, 09:39:39 AM
Seems like a credible list of who was responsible for which bit:

https://www.resetera.com/threads/community-spotlight-dceu-era-ot-crisis-on-infinite-forums.465/page-130#post-1089110
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: Clock on November 19, 2017, 10:49:53 AM
Around $94 million for the weekend it seems to have gotten.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: Bandido on November 19, 2017, 12:56:40 PM
That little Watchmen-esque intro to the world losing hope without Superman was so ridiculously ham-fisted. A bunch of shots of buildings and then, suddenly, a neo Nazis kicks orange crates over at a Middle Eastern store, end montage.

Also yes to the comment about the Batsuit looking too bloated.

A great scene was Batman telling Flash, "Save one." - That felt authentic and powerful. Then they kind of dropped the ball on following up with it.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: DarthAlani on November 19, 2017, 01:37:44 PM
This could very well be the end of the DCEU.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: Ditto on November 19, 2017, 01:59:53 PM
I genuinely liked it overall though there are an insane amount of gripes. I’d watch a solo film about any of the leaguers from this movie.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: DarthAlani on November 19, 2017, 02:03:34 PM
So would I.  The league themselves were very good in this. 
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: Strawman Abridged on November 19, 2017, 02:07:12 PM
Darth going into full Hudson game-over mode? Haha what the hell?
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: DarthAlani on November 19, 2017, 02:08:08 PM
I'm a realist.  Don't confuse me with FG or Quan.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: Ditto on November 19, 2017, 02:08:45 PM
Steppenwolf was a fucking abomination. My girlfriend had to ask me what he said numerous times. And his cgi was horrendous. Why not make a human actor play the part? It looked so bad.

Almost as bad as the field scene or cavill’s lip.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: 80sBaby on November 19, 2017, 03:38:55 PM
I saw it Saturday and liked it. There were obvious flaws, which have been covered here, but the characters were very well done. Which is what you need for their solo films. The DCEU may pull a "reverse MCU" and have the solo movies be the better of the franchise.

Flash wasn't like comic Barry, at all. He still filled a need though and I liked the characterization. Given his powers, Flash needs to be needed in some way or he ends the film in 3 seconds. Loved him and Cyborg as a friendship. Made me wish he was Wally.

Wonder Woman stole the show for me. She's just awasome and I think Gal and Ben have great chemistry. Her bullet-blocking scene was ridiculous!

Superman had a personality change out of nowhere. Granted, I like this version but it was jarring. Didn't really care for him being so far beyond the other members. Although his scene with Flash saving people was great. Also like his joking with Cyborg.

All in all, I give it 7-7.5/10, which is good but not great. And that's disappointing for what the film should have been.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: Fifthchild on November 19, 2017, 05:48:03 PM
This could very well be the end of the DCEU.

Given the rumours - yeah it could be.

The idea that WB might reverse overall course and try to make a few movies that stand on their own - de-emphasizing the idea of a shared universe and especially a connection to JL would have seemed insane before but apparently thats very much on the table now.

And when you consider that JL turned out to be the "Anti-Avengers" in that its almost certainly going to make less than solo efforts like WW (from just a few months ago), MOS and BvS it does make a certain kind of sense.

In particular, I'm 50/50 on whether we will ever see Cavill as Superman again which is a bit sad given that they finally got him right.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: Fifthchild on November 19, 2017, 05:50:37 PM
Fuck just remembered another minor gripe:

- For like the eighth time in the DCEU, Lois screams out "Clark!!!!!!!!!" at Superman - standing not ten feet from a bunch of ordinary cops. Way to protect that secret identity...
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: Fifthchild on November 19, 2017, 05:51:34 PM
Anyway - estimates are out - 96 million weekend.

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/weekend/chart/
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: Prime on November 19, 2017, 06:16:49 PM
This could very well be the end of the DCEU.

Lol no way in hell. DC will keep trying and trying.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: DarthAlani on November 19, 2017, 07:53:30 PM
I hope it gets better but I trust WB management about as much as I do for Quan to concede his pet characters can lose.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: AP on November 19, 2017, 08:14:02 PM
This could very well be the end of the DCEU.

Lol no way in hell. DC will keep trying and trying.

Eventually, they'll lose enough money that they will have to end it.  They can probably keep afloat for a few more flicks, but it doesn't look good for them.  Both BvS and Justice League were their major tentpole movies and neither one really broke records or anything.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: Fifthchild on November 19, 2017, 09:40:36 PM
I think the mistake is comparing DC to Marvel.

I didnt do that once in my response.

Quote
DC is still making a load of money. Suicide Squad - bad flick with bright spots in certain stand out characters - 850 million.
Wonder Woman - close to 900$, As bad as Superman batman was, its still a near 900 milion dollar film. That's not X Men money

BO numbers today had an enormous return internationally. What we see is that US audiences are demanding change and wny shouldn't they

The foreign BO does not appear to be enormous relative to the US.

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I'm a little suprised that anyone thought this film would be anything other than lukewarm to good. Audience scores on RT were a solid B+.  Critics are getting a litle power hungry in how savage they're being with films. I get that the film isn't perfect, but lower than 40% is vindictive - although I don't know what the score is now

If people like the indivudal characters enough to follow the stand alones coming up while Flash Flashpoint can retcon things that don't work the film has done its job. Audiences are sophisticated - if DC clearly shifted its tone, Snyder is gone, and peoplle start hearing the right announcements the die-hard DC fans will come out - the real question will be casual moviegoers and the occasional Marvel die-hard

Of course the DC die-hards are going to come out. You cant rely on them to carry a mid budget film let alone a tentpole like JL. Modern superhero movies are not art house films that general movie goers avoid - they rely on pulling in the vast bulk of audiences to make any money.

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IMHO DC will regain the casual moviegoers and with effort, marvelites will join up partially. There's good stuff coming up

Aquaman, WW, Shazam future MOS and a new Batman plus Nightwing, and other potential projects are all potentially fantastic. hell, who would have thought Aquaman would have been reimagined and gotten a direvto rlike James Wan

This all feels very inevitable to me and its not as bad as I imagined. 83 millio today - 119 total and its Saturday afternoon. Global could end up at 200 million

Well it didn't but that seems like the least important point...

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I never thought DC had a chance against  THir comedy with Loki, Hulk and other Marvel superstars init. Marvel as of current has so many stars that every solo film with a team up is a de facto JL.

To suggest that people never thought Justice League had a chance against the third Thor film is insane revisionism.

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DC not getting the same BO isn't bad as long as the films make money - and they are, and the films are moving in a pisitive direction that fans will look forward to. Eventually they will have built up the goodwill that several years of a shared universe rbrings.

Everything disagrees with you here. The movies are moving in the wrong direction from a Box Office perspective. Nobody, and i use the term relatively, was really looking forward to this.

4 years ago people were saying the same thing about what a great place we would be in by the time JL hits so the idea that "Eventually they will have built up the goodwill that several years of a shared universe brings" is hardly justified. Making a bunch of movies and shoving them in peoples faces for years doesnt automatically generate goodwill. In this case, as in many, just the opposite in fact.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: INDRA THUNDERER on November 19, 2017, 11:05:11 PM
Everything FifthChild wrote is truth!Lois,& fucking BATMAN calling him "Clark" in front of the police?the CGI for Superman's mouth,Steppenwolf,wtf?,& the only one who seemed threatened by anything was Bruce!Flash's characterization was great,he's no Barry or Wally,but likeable.WW needed better lines,as she was the only standout,imo.Superman's re-introduction to the fight was LAME!He should've decked Steppenwolf ,then let out the cornball exposition.it would've felt like the cavalry had arrived,but instead fell flat imo.Snyder sucks!
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: AP on November 20, 2017, 12:15:58 AM
Everything FifthChild wrote is truth!Lois,& fucking BATMAN calling him "Clark" in front of the police?the CGI for Superman's mouth,Steppenwolf,wtf?,& the only one who seemed threatened by anything was Bruce!Flash's characterization was great,he's no Barry or Wally,but likeable.WW needed better lines,as she was the only standout,imo.Superman's re-introduction to the fight was LAME!He should've decked Steppenwolf ,then let out the cornball exposition.it would've felt like the cavalry had arrived,but instead fell flat imo.Snyder sucks!

Batman doesn't seem to care about his own identity.  The first thing he does when meeting Aquaman and Flash is reveal his identity in hopes that they will become allies.  Hell, him and Aquaman have a nice chat about how he's Batman, right there in front of random villagers.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: Prime on November 20, 2017, 03:48:43 AM
This could very well be the end of the DCEU.

Lol no way in hell. DC will keep trying and trying.

Eventually, they'll lose enough money that they will have to end it.  They can probably keep afloat for a few more flicks, but it doesn't look good for them.  Both BvS and Justice League were their major tentpole movies and neither one really broke records or anything.

Lose money? How? Batman vs Superman nearly tripled it's gross budget in worldwide sales. Are they matching up with Marvel benchmarks? No. But the movies are still profitable at the end of the day.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: AP on November 20, 2017, 03:52:05 AM
This could very well be the end of the DCEU.

Lol no way in hell. DC will keep trying and trying.

Eventually, they'll lose enough money that they will have to end it.  They can probably keep afloat for a few more flicks, but it doesn't look good for them.  Both BvS and Justice League were their major tentpole movies and neither one really broke records or anything.

Lose money? How? Batman vs Superman nearly tripled it's gross budget in worldwide sales. Are they matching up with Marvel benchmarks? No. But the movies are still profitable at the end of the day.

They're not making their projected numbers.  Also, each movie has made less than the last.  Eventually they will start losing money.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: pittfox on November 20, 2017, 06:44:24 AM
 Unlike most who say they liked it but had major issues, I disliked it but had some this I really liked about this. A let down.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: Fifthchild on November 20, 2017, 07:00:25 AM
Lose money? How? Batman vs Superman nearly tripled it's gross budget in worldwide sales. Are they matching up with Marvel benchmarks? No. But the movies are still profitable at the end of the day.

They're not making their projected numbers.  Also, each movie has made less than the last.  Eventually they will start losing money.

JL could well lose money - apparently it needs about 700 to 750 million WW to break even. Thats going to be tough.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: Prime on November 20, 2017, 08:50:35 AM
Justice Leagues film budget was 300 million. I highly doubt they spent another 400 million promoting the movie. That's just ridiculous. The movies all make money. Just not as much as they hoped.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: Fifthchild on November 20, 2017, 12:25:30 PM
Studios dont get anywhere close to the entire Box Office receipts. Its complicated but roughly half goes to the theatres screening the film (less towards the beginning of its run - more towards the end). Then you might have shit like participants who negotiated gross percentage points (they get paid a percentage of total profits) - this is how RDJ made $50 million from Avengers.

Studios play this stuff pretty close to their vests but a decent rule of thumb is that a film has to make twice its budget back at the BO before it becomes profitable. That rule tends to bear out IMO also because if a film stalls out around that point studios usually think long and hard about whether to make a sequel.

Take it with a grain of salt given that theirs a fair bit of guesstimation but heres a fairly credible breakdown of how much money Batman v Superman would have made for WB for example:

http://deadline.com/2017/03/batman-v-superman-box-office-profit-2016-1202049201/
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: 80sBaby on November 20, 2017, 12:28:00 PM
3/4 DCEU's films left the general audience "gun shy" about them. So a lot of people are either waiting on WoM or have just decided to watch it when it home releases. It's sad because this was actually a pretty enjoyable film and definitely a move in the right direction for the DCEU going forward. I doubt they'll scap the whole thing, though. Likely they will focus on the solo films for now and wait a minute before JL 2.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: DarthAlani on November 20, 2017, 12:49:30 PM
Hollywood Reporter is reporting an opening of $94 million which puts in below Winter Soldier and on par with the first Guardians for opening weekends. 

A huge disaster for WB/DC and they have themselves to blame.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: Fifthchild on November 20, 2017, 01:28:09 PM
Yeah. If you adjust for inflation the Ang Lee Hulk film had a 92 million opening weekend if you can believe it.

WB are in a really weird spot in that WW is a big success but the Snyder Batman/Superman connections seem to be toxic with audiences. Like if everything was fucked you might scrap it all, wait a few years and start again - if comic book films still seemed like a smart bet at that point.

Anyway i think there will be some very interesting stories to come out of this years down the line when people feel able to to speak freely about everything. I dont think it will be as simple as "It was all Snyder's fault" either.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: altoon on November 20, 2017, 01:44:38 PM
I think it all gonna be put on Snyder and there gonna move forward without him or his style in all future movies.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: nu-safado on November 20, 2017, 01:49:55 PM
At a 282$ million global box office Justice League is on pace to make around 800$million. Keep in mind, the release was the week BEFORE Thanksgiving and there could be a large contingent of people traveling. I expect the follow up weekend to be strong.

Second factor and what I consider to be the real risk: Pirates of the Caribbean, Fast and the Furious, and Transformers are all getting higher foreign box office returns and dwindling domestic returns, They're still hitting the 1 billion dollar mark frequently on spectactle. If Warner keeps making money, and make no mistake; after you factor in blu-ray, netflix, and all other forms of income, this will be a profitable movie, they don't have much reason to change.

Creatively this was clearly a pivot, Superman's characterization alone signaled that, but Warner is missing a key component. Disney and Marvel have Kathleen Kennedy and Kevin Feige to provide consistency and who have firing auhority. Warrer has a habit of hiring great talent in casting then letting directors with awful track records make clossal mistkes and on top of that make bad creative decisions when the suits enter in.

DDC clearly needs a central figure to maintain a DC feel.

The loyalty to figures like David Ayer, whose record is spotty at best, are not helpfu Throw in your Zach Snyder's and other assorted mistakes and you have a universe that resonates on some levels, bit never fires on all cylinders

Nevertheless I saw this movie as a clear signal that they are getting the message and if course correction continues great things can happen. DC isn't Marvel, they can't be and their source material isn't prone to the same kind of direction. DC really needs its Feige or Kenedy to stay the creative course and to keep the things that have worked very well so far and trash what hasn't (Zukcerberg, Amy Adams, most of Suicide Squad,)

I would also advise against a hard Spider-Man like reboot. Even the amazing Spider-man Homecoing took a while to find its legs after too many reboots

If DC throws out the trash and keeps fan favorties (Cavill Superman, Battfleck, Miller Flash, Mamoa, WW, Harley) then the universe can be built accordingly and rebots can be discrete.

Will anyone cvare of Luthor is suddenly replaced by his hidden "real father" played by Mark Strong or Billy Zane?
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: Ditto on November 20, 2017, 03:32:39 PM
Jesus Christ safado, this movie was a financial dumpster fire. Just stop trying to spin it. Even if there’s no significant drop-off (how often does that happen?), this movie is still severely underperforming. And it’s a TEAM movie. It’s pathetic. Fuck WB is the only thing you should be harping on about.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: LiquidSailor on November 20, 2017, 03:39:25 PM
Cavill Superman is a fan favorite?  You delusional BR faggot.
Title: Re: Justice League Spoilers
Post by: Ditto on November 20, 2017, 03:42:04 PM
Every single person I know, including DC try-hards and apologists, has hated Superman because he made the entire team irrelevant.

I liked his personality but also agree that him casually outperforming everyone at the end was ridiculous and off-putting. I’m surprised they didn’t have him hacking the motherboxes too.