Herochat

General Forums => Debate => Topic started by: therock on September 12, 2017, 02:17:33 PM

Title: Right to discriminate
Post by: therock on September 12, 2017, 02:17:33 PM
https://aclu-co.org/blog/president-trump-attorney-general-sessions-want-enshrine-business-right-discriminate-constitution/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgwY8hwsaN8&lc=z22itrxyskvvv32uaacdp431m5fvi0dykshf3pd4wcpw03c010c.1505180384205845


What you think of this.  By a pure libertarian standard may be considered ok. And you could always get a cake someplace else. But what if isn't just cake. What about working, medicine, safety, housing

What if you just happen to live in a very backwards area where multiple places do that, and can't really afford to pack up and leave.
Title: Re: Right to discriminate
Post by: NeoGreenLantern on September 12, 2017, 06:08:54 PM
IMHO you should not be able to turn away anyone any service you are offering to everyone else in the public. There is not such thing as a gay wedding cake. A wedding cake is a wedding cake. The baker doesn't even put the wedding toppers on. Those are purchased separately and added by a third party.

If you don't want to offer your service to everyone then open up a public store front.
Title: Re: Right to discriminate
Post by: herochat on September 12, 2017, 06:17:16 PM
It's the same shit as free speech. You should have the right to refuse service at an establishment you own for *any* reason, but then you also have to accept responsibility and not whine about anything that results because of it, including the inevitable loss of business from people who aren't dickwads. Fuck your feelings.

Addendum: if you don't own the business and just work there, you don't make decisions that run counter to the business owner. If you don't like it, quit. If you want to be some DMV cunt that doesn't like gaybois or you want to be some baker that doesn't make KKKakes, quit. Fuck your feelings.
Title: Re: Right to discriminate
Post by: XerxesTWD on September 12, 2017, 06:23:18 PM
I think the Commerce Clause already covered this in the Supreme Court.

If you want to do business in the United States, you aren't supposed to refuse service by discriminating against the protected classes.


If you have a problem with that, you should not be doing business in the United States. Maybe Saudi Arabia would be a FAR more suitable venue for your shithole company.
Title: Re: Right to discriminate
Post by: herochat on September 12, 2017, 06:50:31 PM
I think the Commerce Clause already covered this in the Supreme Court.

It didn't. Unless you want to take an incredibly broad and unintentional understanding of the clause, in which Native tribes had less economic rights in the United States than foreign powers did. It was used to enforce the CRA in cases dealing with interstate commerce, which was well within it's scope. The Commerce Clause doesn't and was never intended to apply to all businesses or protected classes in a broad sense.
Title: Re: Right to discriminate
Post by: XerxesTWD on September 12, 2017, 06:52:05 PM
I think the Commerce Clause already covered this in the Supreme Court.

It didn't. Unless you want to take an incredibly broad and unintentional understanding of the clause, in which Native tribes had less economic rights in the United States than foreign powers did. It was used to enforce the CRA in cases dealing with interstate commerce, which was well within it's scope. The Commerce Clause doesn't and was never intended to apply to all businesses or protected classes in a broad sense.

Heart of Atlanta vs United States is pretty clear.
Title: Re: Right to discriminate
Post by: herochat on September 12, 2017, 07:02:10 PM
I think the Commerce Clause already covered this in the Supreme Court.

It didn't. Unless you want to take an incredibly broad and unintentional understanding of the clause, in which Native tribes had less economic rights in the United States than foreign powers did. It was used to enforce the CRA in cases dealing with interstate commerce, which was well within it's scope. The Commerce Clause doesn't and was never intended to apply to all businesses or protected classes in a broad sense.

Heart of Atlanta vs United States is pretty clear.

I knew what you were referring to. Read it again. I haven't read it since my first semester of law school, but the Commerce Clause was pretty clearly used to enforce the CRA under the auspices of affecting interstate commerce; it was an ingenius application of a related precedent, but it didn't somehow establish Federal oversight over all commerce.

I was refused service by a black barber in Misissipi when I was in high school because I wasn't his "preferred clientele". That's his right. I went down the street to a barber who actually wanted to make 25 bucks. That's my right. That's how the economy works. Whether you're some KKK dipshit who refuses to serve black people in your bar, or a liquor store owner who refuses to sell to Natives, go ahead. See how long before your fuckwit business collapses. That's America, not Saudi Arabia.
Title: Re: Right to discriminate
Post by: herochat on September 12, 2017, 07:04:48 PM
And before you call me a Nazi or whatever for pointing out facts, I don't think anyone should discriminate against anyone for something as arbitrary as the color of their skin. That's being a shitty person, as well as a shitty businessperson. But if that's what they choose, they have to deal with the results.
Title: Re: Right to discriminate
Post by: XerxesTWD on September 12, 2017, 07:29:04 PM
I did read it again. It's covered pretty extensively in business law. It doesn't cover all commerce in existence, but it does set a large precedent for discriminatory practices in commerce.


Also, why would I call you a Nazi? That's not allowed in here.
Title: Re: Right to discriminate
Post by: herochat on September 12, 2017, 07:45:17 PM
I didn't mean you specifically. I know you love me. It was more aimed at Rock, King of the Strawman.

And I wasn't saying that you were saying that I was saying you were saying it covered all commerce in existence. I was just clarifying that the Commerce Clause only applied in this context under very specific circumstances
Title: Re: Right to discriminate
Post by: therock on September 12, 2017, 07:54:45 PM
I didn't mean you specifically. I know you love me. It was more aimed at Rock, King of the Strawman.

And I wasn't saying that you were saying that I was saying you were saying it covered all commerce in existence. I was just clarifying that the Commerce Clause only applied in this context under very specific circumstances

woukd call you a nazi. it against the rules. dont think i ever called  you that
Title: Re: Right to discriminate
Post by: herochat on September 12, 2017, 07:57:36 PM
I was screwing around, fella. Why is everyone so defensive today?

Bush did 9/11 like 25 years ago. Get over it.
Title: Re: Right to discriminate
Post by: therock on September 12, 2017, 08:02:21 PM
your the one acting triggered that some will call u a nazi
Title: Re: Right to discriminate
Post by: NeoGreenLantern on September 12, 2017, 08:07:43 PM
So we all Agree? Wyntyr is a nazi? I'm gonna go ahead and lock this.
Title: Re: Right to discriminate
Post by: MTL76 on September 12, 2017, 09:02:46 PM
I'm stunned that Wyntyr pays 25 dollars for a haircut.
Title: Re: Right to discriminate
Post by: MTL76 on September 12, 2017, 09:10:36 PM
My own barber story. When I was living in Montreal, I'd get my haircut at this shop run by a bunch of old Italian guys. I don't think there was a one in the bunch younger than sixty, and their English was... limited. Which was great for me because there was no chit-chat, and the haircuts were fast and cheap. It was obvious that this was a men's barber shop. There were never any female customers, the model haircut pictures on the walls were all guys, and it had the cleanliness of a bachelor pad.

One day, a woman came in and asked for a haircut. She had a pretty butch look to her already. The barbers were VERY flustered. They tried explaining to her in broken English that they only gave mens style cuts. She said she WANTED a men's style. They went back and forth with the barbers politely but stubbornly declining. This went on for a while until the woman left in a huff. My barber returned to cutting my hair, and said that he didn't take her business because female customers are never satisfied.

Now, I'm sure this goes against anti-discrimination law, but I was very sympathetic to these guys, even though the woman wasn't asking for a feminine haircut, which they may not have known how to do.
Title: Re: Right to discriminate
Post by: herochat on September 12, 2017, 09:37:45 PM
I'm stunned that Wyntyr pays 25 dollars for a haircut.

This was years ago.  Plus in the south.  I'm sure you and Xerxes (haha noooooope) and the other coastal fellas pay exorbitant amounts though.  I'm currently growing out my hair for the first time so I'm just letting that shit grow.

Also, I am eating pizza with sausage and peppers and watching Blood Father
Title: Re: Right to discriminate
Post by: Riv1 on September 13, 2017, 06:44:07 AM
... I don't think anyone should discriminate against anyone for something as arbitrary as the color of their skin. That's being a shitty person, as well as a shitty businessperson. But if that's what they choose, they have to deal with the results.
That sums it up.
Like i'd tell ppl at work who had trouble following orders, the choice is yours, you just have to deal with the results.
Interesting read, glad i clicked on this.
Title: Re: Right to discriminate
Post by: MTL76 on September 13, 2017, 07:35:19 AM
I'm stunned that Wyntyr pays 25 dollars for a haircut.

This was years ago.  Plus in the south.  I'm sure you and Xerxes (haha noooooope) and the other coastal fellas pay exorbitant amounts though.  I'm currently growing out my hair for the first time so I'm just letting that shit grow.

Also, I am eating pizza with sausage and peppers and watching Blood Father

On average I pay fifteen dollars, and that's current day prices. Twenty-five bucks, years ago, in the South? You're a veritable Fancy Dan.
Title: Re: Right to discriminate
Post by: NeoGreenLantern on September 13, 2017, 08:50:43 AM
I haven't paid for a haircut in years. I got the worst fucking hair on the planet. It's half short and curly, half long and wavy, and pretty thick. I can't actually do anything with it so I use clippers on it periodically and keep it super short.
Title: Re: Right to discriminate
Post by: Riv1 on September 13, 2017, 09:00:34 AM
I haven't paid for a haircut in years.
Same.
Been shaving my head since my early 20s.
Title: Re: Right to discriminate
Post by: herochat on September 13, 2017, 04:06:30 PM
I'm stunned that Wyntyr pays 25 dollars for a haircut.

This was years ago.  Plus in the south.  I'm sure you and Xerxes (haha noooooope) and the other coastal fellas pay exorbitant amounts though.  I'm currently growing out my hair for the first time so I'm just letting that shit grow.

Also, I am eating pizza with sausage and peppers and watching Blood Father

On average I pay fifteen dollars, and that's current day prices. Twenty-five bucks, years ago, in the South? You're a veritable Fancy Dan.

Damn, dude. Yeah, the last time I got a haircut I think it was nearly $40 plus tip. But I really am a Fancy Lad when it comes to hair. I actually wanted to be a stylist for a while
Title: Re: Right to discriminate
Post by: Riv1 on September 13, 2017, 06:14:25 PM
^^^not a bad profession for a ppl person.
Just going by online persona, that would work for you, as you seem fairly gregarious.
Title: Re: Right to discriminate
Post by: herochat on September 13, 2017, 06:29:05 PM
I'm not as dickish or as extroverted irl as I am on here, but it's probably close. Good stylists at the better salons around here routinely make 6 figures, so it's definitely not a bad line of work. Being able to fudge taxes helps them a lot, though.

I actually enrolled in cosmetology school because I wanted to do both hair and makeup, but you're required to do the manicure and pedicure stuff for months during school, and you can't pay me enough to touch someone's feet. No way in hell.
Title: Re: Right to discriminate
Post by: Riv1 on September 13, 2017, 07:01:09 PM
^^^Yeeeaaaah...i cant see messing with someone else's feet like that. ???

Me and a buncha guys would get mani pedis after long deployments. I always washed the HELL out of my feet prior, and tipped big, as i just consider doing that to be a raw deal.
Title: Re: Right to discriminate
Post by: Thanos6 on September 14, 2017, 07:50:59 AM
Like they said before, if you're in a small town, and the only people offering you that service decline, you're fucked.
Title: Re: Right to discriminate
Post by: Not BAMF on September 14, 2017, 04:12:14 PM
This is one of those issues I can't ever really decide upon. Wyntyr makes a compelling argument, but really, both sides more or less do when I hear people argue this issue.

All I'm here to contribute is that my haircuts are $15-$20. Usually go to Great Clips which is $13 + $3-5 for a tip depending if they make me talk or not.

But more importantly, why am I tipping for a haircut? They don't make 23 cents an hour like waiters do, right?
Title: Re: Right to discriminate
Post by: XerxesTWD on September 14, 2017, 04:29:19 PM
You tip so they don't "make a mistake". Barbers and stylists are the mafia of the service industry.
Title: Re: Right to discriminate
Post by: Riv1 on September 14, 2017, 04:51:14 PM
You tip so they don't "make a mistake". Barbers and stylists are the mafia of the service industry.
That made me laugh so damn hard just now!
I think my blood sugar's too low...???
Title: Re: Right to discriminate
Post by: herochat on September 14, 2017, 05:07:23 PM
You tip so they don't "make a mistake". Barbers and stylists are the mafia of the service industry.

Tax evasion, protection rackets, under the table deals. You are definitely not incorrect
Title: Re: Right to discriminate
Post by: NeoGreenLantern on September 15, 2017, 01:07:52 PM
This is one of those issues I can't ever really decide upon. Wyntyr makes a compelling argument, but really, both sides more or less do when I hear people argue this issue.

All I'm here to contribute is that my haircuts are $15-$20. Usually go to Great Clips which is $13 + $3-5 for a tip depending if they make me talk or not.

But more importantly, why am I tipping for a haircut? They don't make 23 cents an hour like waiters do, right?

It's not as bad as that but still pretty bad. It's an industry that pays meh but also you have to be certified. Unless you personally own a successful salon/barber shop where other people work at you are probably getting by on tips.
Title: Re: Right to discriminate
Post by: herochat on September 15, 2017, 05:10:49 PM
It really depends on how good you are and the area. Like I said, a lot of stylists around here are making 6 figures. After they get school paid off, it's hard to starve if you're any good at your job