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Entertainment => Showcase of the Immortals => Topic started by: Jabroniville on January 11, 2015, 03:04:54 AM

Title: The Bret Hart Categories thread!
Post by: Jabroniville on January 11, 2015, 03:04:54 AM
Figured I would give assessments of each guy, especially having watched the show for a year and a half by this point. Though MY GOD I'm basically down to just reading recaps and seeing the parts I wanna see these days...

I'll do a handful of guys each time.

KOFI KINGSTON
Look: 5.5 (small-ish, but toned and athletic)
Skill: 6.5 (flashy and athletic, but slots his moves into the Generic WWE Match Template style way too much. I've yet to see his infamous botches)
Charisma: 4 (Generic Happy Smiling Babyface)
Overall: 16
Prospects: I think Kofi is doomed. Maybe another bullshit IC run or something, but he's clearly done being pushed, and nobody on top seems to like him. I haven't seen him cut a single promo, nor get a meaningful win. The New Day is terrible and doomed to failure, which in modern terms means they'll be Tag Champs for a month or two after their heel turn in a few weeks.

DOLPH ZIGGLER
Look: 6.5 (athletic and big enough, but Jobbery)
Skill: 7 (good enough, but boring)
Charisma: 5 (zzzzzzzzzzzz)
Overall: 19.5
-Dolph still bores the living shit out of me. And his whole weird Shawn Michaels/Billy Gunn combo act is weird and just not doing it for me either. He cuts these generic "I'm gonna TRY HARD!" promos, sells overly-much (like he cartoonishly flops around like every match is Shawn Michaels vs. Hulk Hogan), and he just kind of fits in as some filler guy. And his name is SO FUCKING STUPID that I can't get into him. The crowds like him as much as any Cena-level dude, but people on top actively dislike him so he's basically Daniel Bryan without the "pull" of crowd reactions to side with him. I don't see him ever becoming World Champion the way things are now.

ALBERTO DEL RIO
Look: 5.5 (tall and studly, but not really physical looking)
Skill: 5.5 (zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz... technically-gifted, but watching him wrestle is like watching flies fuck!)
Charisma: 2 (zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz)
Overall: 13 (move over, Jeff Jarrett- there is a NEW Least Interesting Wrestler in the World)
-Well he was fired, and it's hilarious because absolutely NOBODY seems to miss him. Actually wait, there are a couple of apologists who sprout up, and I find them bizarre- this guy's technical offense is some of the most mind-numbingly boring stuff I've ever seen in the ring. It's like... he's more technically-competent than Cena, Sheamus or even Ziggler, but he just does everything so SLOWLY and METHODICALLY that you can't even get into the psychology as a fan. It's a textbook example of why technical wizards like Dean Malenko had troubles getting over, but it even extends to "Workrate Fans" like me. Thank Christ he's gone.

SHEAMUS
Look: 8.5 (a muscular giant, but he's just so OFF-PUTTING physically. Like an alabaster Super Saiyan)
Skill: 5.5 (BLURGH. Same old Cookie Cutter pseudo-Main Eventer shit with the same couple moves slotted into random parts of the match. Every Sheamus match is absolutely identical)
Charisma: 6 (he says FELLA, and that's it)
Overall: 18
-Sheamus is a huge casualty of the "Cookie Cutter Development System", effectively formulating this by-the-numbers offense with by-the-numbers comebacks, falling into the Bret Hart/Macho Man Lazy Template of selling for a whole match and then coming back with the same moves. Aside from his distinctive skin & hair, he's got the Developmental Look, too. And now that he's no longer Triple-H's pal, it looks like he's on that gravy train to nowheresville, and they've completely given up on him. I see a lot of US/IC Title reigns in his future, but I can't imagine they'll ever bother bringing him back to the top tiers since he was such a disaster on top last time (and it's unfair, because he was so new then that he was OBVIOUSLY going to fail).

DAMIEN SANDOW
Look: 7.5 (he's pretty big, isn't he? I find him boring so I often don't watch him closely enough. Buff, but not much definition)
Skill: 4 (as Generic as it's possible to get)
Charisma: 5.5 (somehow got over doing the stupidest shit)
Overall: 17 (almost seems too high)
-Sandow became one of the weirder modern guys, in that he got over doing some insanely stupid thing (mimicking Miz's moves from outside the ring?... and it got over?). I see him going the Snitzky Route- they give him a big push owing to his popularity (Miz will turn on him and he'll win a low-end Title), then grow bored with him, then rapidly de-push him and treat him like a joke again. He fails to stand out as a worker in any way whatsoever, but that's not too strange in this company now.

BIG E LANGSTON
Look: 8.5 (big, thick, breast-y physique. Looks tough, if not like a bodybuilder)
Skill: 3.5 (his moves look good, but he's limited. Pretty much because he's legitimately killing guys out there, but I don't penalize for stiffness)
Charisma: 3.5 (Generic Angry Heel or Happy Babyface)
Overall: 15.5
-Just awful. A terrible worker with no charisma who failed to get over in any way, and now he's a nobody. And his name is stupid. And he's a Smiling Dancing Negro, because Vince thinks it's still the 1970s.

LOS MATADORES
Look: 3 (they look puny)
Skill: 5 (dull for guys who are so small. They look trained from the Brian Christopher School of wrestling like a heavyweight even if you're tiny)
Charisma: 2 (in about five seconds their midget got more over than either of them)
Overall: 10
-They're just a filler Jobber Duo- they didn't even get a Token Tag Title reign with those worthless belts! They pretty much exist only to have El Torito come out and do some silly bull stuff. Though I guess as modern-day Comedy Jobbers they're alright.

BLACK CENA (aka Darren Young):
Look: 7.5 (handsome young man with some good size)
Skill: 5 (flavourless modern Cookie Cutter Guy)
Charisma: 3.5 (he has that dance... and that was it)
Overall: 16
-Fell off the face of the Earth, right when he was getting noticed for coming out of the closet. Not that it's the best foundation for a PUSH (they'd obviously fuck it up if they tried), but I guess he needed more seasoning or something. He hasn't even come back from getting beaten up by his partner!

TITUS O'NEIL
Look: 8.5 (big ripped guy, but on the lean side for a hardbody type)
Skill: 3 (I don't think he's shown jack shit)
Charisma: 3.5 (he acted sick one time. And frowned a lot when he did his heel turn)
Overall: 15 (he's going to break their heart if they try to turn his heel turn into a big push)
-Did a big turn on his partner, and ended up going nowhere. I actually dislike this guy intensely, and only for that stupid fucking "Urrah! Urrah! Urrah!" call with his head bouncing around. It looks like he's about to puke, and sounds stupid. And what the fuck is with using a guy who's basically More Ripped Ahmed Johnson and using him as a JOBBER? Sure he sucks, but come on.
Title: Re: Jab Assesses all the modern wrestlers
Post by: Imperial on January 11, 2015, 04:35:28 AM
Being that we had this on the old forum, I was thinking of a thread like this myself. I'm glad someone less lazy decided to put it up instead.  :D

Sad but true about Kofi. I used to mark for him here and in general years ago. But it is over and has been for some time.

I think Ziggs merits a bit more than a seven in skill atm. Admitted overselling and all he has had a top year in the ring.

Sheamus is more skillful than charismatic/good speaking imo.

I'd rate Sandow lower in look but higher in charisma.
Title: Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
Post by: Jabroniville on January 11, 2015, 05:54:39 AM
Sandow is hard to judge, because I'm pretty sure he's huge. Like, really big. He just gets into the wrong contests sometimes. He's a bit flabby, though. Also the Charisma thing is difficult because he's currently over doing something goofy, but he was DYING doing a year's worth of bad material before that.

Yeah, Ziggler could maybe be higher in Skill. But I usually just see him flying all over the ring, not actually controlling offense or anything.
Title: Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
Post by: Imperial on January 11, 2015, 07:23:53 AM
Sandow seems around Edge size to me, but without Edge's rock star look. 
Title: Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
Post by: Not BAMF on January 11, 2015, 09:48:01 AM
I always get a kick out of doing this, and it changes enough that it's worth re-doing every year or so. I'll do the guys Jab has touched on first>

Kofi Kingston
LOOK - 4.5 (He is small and nondescript, but he has.... hair, I guess?)
SKILL - 6 (He's all right, if a lot botchy. For being a big spot guy, though, he's not THAT amazing)
CHARISMA - 3.5 (He's had one memorable promo in his entire career, which has to be about 6 years old or so by now. It's time to admit that Randy Orton promo was either a huge fluke or lightning in a bottle)
TOTAL - 14 (He's not very good, and he peaked in the midcard where he belongs)

Dolph Ziggler 
LOOK - 6 (He's built well, and he just has a good smug face that displays ranges of emotion well. Small, though)
SKILL - 8.5 (He's an amazing seller, which everyone knows. He suffers from having his moveset WWE-ized a great deal because you know he can do a lot more than he gets to show. His stuff looks crisp and impactful)
CHARISMA - 8 (Not legendary or anything, but he's a great talker when given the chance. Unfortunately, like his moveset, his personality is hindered by WWE not giving him as much to work with as they were even two years ago or so)
TOTAL - 22.5 (Dolph's really changed my opinion of him in the last few years. For a while, I really thought he was Overrated Midcard Guy, but I don't think many people work as hard as Dolph)

Alberto Del Rio (why are we rating people who are gone?)
LOOK - 5 (Tall and lanky, with a goofy, albeit villainous, face)
SKILL - 7 (Definitely Del Rio's hardest aspect to judge. He's a great WRESTLER whose matches tell a good story. And I love the way he works the arm consistently like an old-school Flair used to work the knee. But his matches are so boring. So, so boring. Good psychology, but bad on action)
CHARISMA - 3 (Just awful, and he was really exposed when he lost Ricardo Rodriguez as his lightning rod/speaker)
TOTAL - 15 (Midcard talent who was always pushed WAY too hard)

Sheamus
LOOK - 9 (Not a monster, but large. And very distinctive and memorable looking)
SKILL - 7 (He's eminently carryable to really good heights with the right opponents--Bryan and Morrison had GREAT matches with the guy--but he can slum it if he's in there with a slug)
CHARISMA - 6.5 (He seems really comfortable in a speaking role, and he feels natural and not forced. That said, he never seems to have much to say, and he gets repetitive often)
TOTAL - 22.5 (higher than I'd have thought for Sheamus, but he does have a great look)

Damien Mizdow
LOOK - 6 (He's tall, but not imposingly so. His beard is unique and memorable, I guess)
SKILL - 5 (I've never ever gotten anything more than "average wrestler" out of Mizdow in the ring)
CHARISMA - 7.5 (He's entertaing as hell, but then, he's been given really good characters to work with. His work with Miz is one of the few bright sides to WWE these days)
TOTAL - 18.5 (Higher-end midcard potential... which he, sadly, has yet to live up to)

Big E Langston (Look, I'm not even bothering to do those other non-entities you listed, Jab)
LOOK - 7 (It's a 7 AT BEST. He's meaty, but stout and short)
SKILL - 2.5 (A good match for Big E is one where he doesn't injure the guy he's working with)
CHARISMA - 2.5 (LOLno)
TOTAL - 12 (Wow. I didn't think he'd be this low, but... there you have it)
Title: Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
Post by: HalloweenJack on January 11, 2015, 09:49:18 AM
I saw some old YouTube clip of him doing a handsome lech gimmick with no beard. One of the women in it was Edge's wife Beth Phoenix...

and the other was Shelley Martinez
Title: Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
Post by: Not BAMF on January 11, 2015, 10:26:58 AM
Moving on to some of the guys Jab didn't get to yet...

The Miz
LOOK - 5.5 ("Just A Guy" at BEST, but as you can tell, I lump the ability to emote facially in with look, and Miz is pretty great at that)
SKILL - 5.5 (He's barely more than "Just A Wrestler", but I give him credit for having worked his butt off to get to that point)
CHARISMA - 8.5 (Miz is a natural, fluid talker. He's gotten a few catchphrases CRAZY over, and I think people tend to downplay how hard he is currently working to help the Mizdow gimmick get over)
TOTAL - 19.5 (Low-end main eventer or king of the midcard range, which feels right for Miz. At this point, even though he is young, it feels like Miz has already accomplished all that he's going to, and is just going to be a body for years to come, which is sad)

Bad News Barrett
LOOK - 7.5 (He's tall and well-built, but he's not Hogan or Savage by any means. Good smug look, and he genuinely looks like he's amusing the hell out of himself)
SKILL - 4.5 (He isn't bad, but he's entirely average. His moves look crisp and impactful, but his matches themselves are not memorable. He loses a full point for having one of the stupidest finishers in WWE these days)
CHARISMA - 7.5 (He's GREATLY improved with the BNB gimmick, as he was barely Just A Guy when he was Wade Barrett. Very distinctive, inimitable catchphrase, but sometimes everything that comes after it is forgettable)
TOTAL - 19.5 (19.5 and still improving. I'm not sure what Barrett's ceiling might be, but he seems like he could eventually belong as a main eventer if he keeps building)

The Usos
LOOK - 5.5 (Just A Guy's... but with FACEPAINT!)
SKILL - 6 (Jump, dive, Superkick. Repeat ad nauseam until match ends)
CHARISMA - 4.5 (the fans are somewhat into them, but their entire shtick is based around a super dated hip-hop routine with the "We say U, you say SO!" thing.
TOTAL - 16 (Adequate at best, which still makes them one of the best tag teams of the last several years!)

Cody Rhodes/Stardust
LOOK - 4 (A guy who manages to look both small AND lanky. He's never managed to look like he should be a REAL THREAT to a heavyweight guy. As Stardust, his costume is relatively goofy)
SKILL - 8 (He's a good hand in the ring, and his moves are fluid. Good psychology in his matches, and his finisher is awesome)
CHARISMA - 8 (Cody is really underrated here. I've seen very few guys get so many gimmicks that are so different from each other, and still give 100% effort and commitment to each one. Cody has managed to get really over at points in his career in spite of WWE's clear lack of desire for him to do so)
TOTAL - 20 (If guys like Rey Mysterio and Eddie Guerrero and Chris Benoit and The Miz can work their way to the top of the card--even if briefly--Cody should be able to, as well. Unfortunately, it's pretty easy to see Cody is a guy WWE actively wants to hold down for whatever reason)

Rusev
LOOK - 7 (It's an odd era we live in where RUSEV is supposed to be a "monster". He's stocky and looks strong, but the guy ain't exactly Vader)
SKILL - 8 (He is a truly magnificent seller for a "monster" character, and he really makes his opponents look strong while ALSO managing to come across as somewhat unstoppable with a devastating, high-impact offense. A Camel Clutch is a laaaammmme finisher in 2000-friggin'-15, so minus at least half a point)
CHARISMA - 2? (More of like "INCOMPLETE", but what can you do? He doesn't speak, is entirely forgettable when he does try, and is saddled with a mouthpiece for now. His in-ring charisma is a lot of raising his arms)
TOTAL - 17 (It's 17 with a bigger upside if he can develop any ability to speak for himself or emote. For now, he's what I've said he is for months: Umaga 2.0)

Adam Rose
LOOK - 6.5 (He's tall, but not imposing. He emotes well enough and has a distinctive enough look with the eyeliner and hair and lollipop)
SKILL - 3.5 (I haven't seen much out of him, but I don't think he's even had a WWE match longer than 5 minutes)
CHARISMA - 6 (With a decent upside. I feel like they abandoned his fun-loving party guy character in favor of a jealous heel turn WAY too quickly, but he's played both roles well so far)
TOTAL - 16 (Lower-tier midcard guy so far, and it seems like he'll be as vanished as Bo Dallas within 2 months. It's a shame... Rose is a guy I'd like to see more of to see what he can do)

Cesaro
LOOK - 6 (He's built well, and he appears to be compact and tight. Not much memorable or intimidating about him, though)
SKILL - 9.5 (I hesitate to give him a 10, but he's the closest to a 10 that WWE has outside of Daniel Bryan in this category. His matches are an absolute treat, his moves look punishingly real while also completely protecting his opponent, and the fans pop for his offense)
CHARISMA - 3 (The sad fact about Cesaro is not only is his speaking/promo ability AWFUL, but he's been around long enough that if it was going to improve, you'd think it would have by now. The odd thing is that OUTSIDE of the ring--when he's used as a talking head on videos or WWE Network programming--Cesaro seems incredibly funny and personable)
TOTAL 18.5 (A HIGH 18.5, though, given that he is a borderline 10 in one category. I will watch Cesaro matches all damn day, but I dread an era where he's a main eventer having to give promos on a regular basis. I remember some promis he gave as the US champ, and they were atrocious; his recent "these four ropes" promo shows he hasn't developed from there)
Title: Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
Post by: Speed of Zound on January 11, 2015, 11:48:30 AM
Roman Reigns

LOOK 9 (Tall, Samoan, cool tats, handsome face no homo)
SKILL 6 (Better spear then Goldberg's by virtue of not legit killing people with it. I do penalize for stiffness.)
CHARISMA 3 (has potential but can't cut a promo without slipping up.)
TOTAL - 18 (hopefully this will rise as hes getting pushed as a top guy)
Title: Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
Post by: Not BAMF on January 11, 2015, 01:38:28 PM
I was saving The Shield guys for a while, but since Reigns was brought up...

Roman Reigns
LOOK - 9 (He is tall and imposing, but not massive. And yeah, he is actually a really good looking guy while also managing to have a very intimidating look, too. He'd be a 10 if he was more classically large. It reminds me of Rusev in that... several years ago, Reigns is not a guy we'd all view as a monster)
SKILL - 5 (As a solo guy, he's been exposed as not having too much inherent ability, but he's not awful, either. He has never really HAD to wrestle a "classic", so it's hard to say how a match like that might go for him)
CHARISMA - 5.5 (Not a good speaker at all; we all know that. But I think he's a little better than he gets credit for--he isn't Cesaro-bad, but the IWC doesn't bash Cesaro over it--He has good in-ring charisma, too, with the Superman Punch theatrics that got over and his general excitement and intensity)
TOTAL - 19.5 (Still developing, and none of his scores are "bad", per se, so he could totally make it as a potential main eventer. Likely to get stale quickly, though)

Seth Rollins
LOOK - 7.5 (Since John Morrison is gone, Seth Rollins is my wife's new favorite wrestler. He's well-defined, as a distinctive look, and isn't as small as some others that have gotten over)
SKILL - 8.5 (It's a shame that his moveset and style have been reduced since he's been working as a heel, but Seth has some dynamic ringwork, and he is a great big spot guy, too. He sells really well, has decent moves, and is overall a lot of fun to watch)
CHARISMA - 8 (I never would have thought Seth would play Sniveling Heel so damn well, but he's really been hitting weekly home runs in this role. People talk about WWE being formulaic and predictable, but everyone "knew" that Ambrose would be the heel and Rollins the babyface when The Shield broke up; WWE saw the right way to go about it)
TOTAL - 24 (Yeah, he's properly being established as the Future of the company for years to come)

Dean Ambrose
LOOK - 4.5 (He's kind of goofy looking and still has some baby fat in his cheeks. It'd be lower based on his actual entire appearance, but he emotes REALLY well--though he sometimes creeps into Randy Orton territory of expressing so hard that he looks like an idiot)
SKILL - 8 (He's really good, but not great. His matches are high-paced with some good intensity, and Ambrose's matches are fun to watch)
CHARISMA - 9 (The whole "Ambrose is the new Stone Cold" is WAY overblown, but Ambrose is very charismatic in a chaotic sort of way. He really puts every bit of himself into his promos and speaking opportunities)
TOTAL - 21.5 (A really high score in the modern era. Dean SHOULD have a bright future if they'd quit burying him)
Title: Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
Post by: Necro on January 11, 2015, 01:48:03 PM
Huh, I'm completely agreeing with Not Bamf and his opinions about the various wrestlers.
I'd give Dean Ambrose a slightly better score in looks, because he is actually a pretty big guy, it's just hard to see on TV, and I think he does really good with his look, but that's pretty much it.

Hey, Not Bamf, do the Wyatts, please.
I really want to see your thoughts about them.
Title: Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
Post by: Wyntyr on January 11, 2015, 03:05:32 PM
Imo, Adam Rose deserves at least a 7 in skill for that ridiculously sick spinebuster he's been breaking out lately. It's way better than HHH's, and if he keeps improving it he'll start creeping up on Arn (although no one will ever have a better spinebuster than Arn).


And I definitely agree with Not Bamf about the whole monster thing. And pushing Reigns as an unstoppable Superman powerhouse is fairly laughable. He and Seth Rollins are the same height, and Roman has maybe 25 pounds on him and a worse physique
Title: Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
Post by: Wyntyr on January 11, 2015, 03:06:05 PM
And Big E looks like a fat retarded 6 year old and I hate him
Title: Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
Post by: Imperial on January 11, 2015, 03:35:00 PM
I like those writeups, agree with most and understand where the majority of the rest are coming from. But Barrett should be higher in skill. (http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k625/NorthLeaf10/Assorted%20gifs/fact.png) (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/NorthLeaf10/media/Assorted%20gifs/fact.png.html)   ;D

Mediocre finisher and all, look at the roster. He's not on low side of average there and this is a workrate heavy era.
Title: Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
Post by: Imperial on January 11, 2015, 03:51:49 PM
By the way, I think this is quite a fine writeup about Miz.

The Miz
LOOK - 5.5 ("Just A Guy" at BEST, but as you can tell, I lump the ability to emote facially in with look, and Miz is pretty great at that)
SKILL - 5.5 (He's barely more than "Just A Wrestler", but I give him credit for having worked his butt off to get to that point)
CHARISMA - 8.5 (Miz is a natural, fluid talker. He's gotten a few catchphrases CRAZY over, and I think people tend to downplay how hard he is currently working to help the Mizdow gimmick get over)
TOTAL - 19.5 (Low-end main eventer or king of the midcard range, which feels right for Miz. At this point, even though he is young, it feels like Miz has already accomplished all that he's going to, and is just going to be a body for years to come, which is sad)

I think that sums him up nicely. While I would never say Miz is a great wrestler, it's cool that you recognize he has worked hard and improved as such. Too many on the net still stick to the "He's an in ring fail reality star from a decade ago."
Title: Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
Post by: Not BAMF on January 11, 2015, 06:18:33 PM
By the way, I think this is quite a fine writeup about Miz.

The Miz
LOOK - 5.5 ("Just A Guy" at BEST, but as you can tell, I lump the ability to emote facially in with look, and Miz is pretty great at that)
SKILL - 5.5 (He's barely more than "Just A Wrestler", but I give him credit for having worked his butt off to get to that point)
CHARISMA - 8.5 (Miz is a natural, fluid talker. He's gotten a few catchphrases CRAZY over, and I think people tend to downplay how hard he is currently working to help the Mizdow gimmick get over)
TOTAL - 19.5 (Low-end main eventer or king of the midcard range, which feels right for Miz. At this point, even though he is young, it feels like Miz has already accomplished all that he's going to, and is just going to be a body for years to come, which is sad)

I think that sums him up nicely. While I would never say Miz is a great wrestler, it's cool that you recognize he has worked hard and improved as such. Too many on the net still stick to the "He's an in ring fail reality star from a decade ago."

I've heard too many other wrestlers say glowing things about Miz' work ethic and drive to not believe it's true. From all reports, he's got to be one of the 5 hardest workers on the roster, and you can't deny that drive to improve.


Huh, I'm completely agreeing with Not Bamf and his opinions about the various wrestlers.
I'd give Dean Ambrose a slightly better score in looks, because he is actually a pretty big guy, it's just hard to see on TV, and I think he does really good with his look, but that's pretty much it.

Hey, Not Bamf, do the Wyatts, please.
I really want to see your thoughts about them.

Sure thing; I'll do them next. I'll get back to this probably after the Colts/Broncos game is over.
Title: Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
Post by: Not BAMF on January 11, 2015, 08:11:14 PM
Bray Wyatt
LOOK - 5.5 (The clothes make the man. On his own physical merits, Bray has a pretty atrocious look. He is *ahem* just a "husky" dude, and not particularly intimidating. But with the stringy beard and his apparel, his character is driven home, so it works for who he is supposed to be)
SKILL - 7.5 (He isn't bad, and some of his moves look downright devastating. Sister Abigail is a wicked move. He's had some absolutely GREAT matches in 2014 with Bryan and The Shield, but those are easy guys to have great matches with, so it's hard to oversell that point)
CHARISMA - 9 (Obviously, Bray's strong suit. The one downside I will mention is that a lot of times, he kind of drones on and goes nowhere, but most of the time he is downright legitimately frightening and creepy)
TOTAL - 22 (Likely a future main eventer. I wish his character had more DIRECTION and actually had more of a Cult Recruitment angle--a la the Ministry of Darkness--rather than just "weird guy says weird things", but... the modern writing staff is junk, so what can be done?)

Luke Harper
LOOK - 8 (I actually struggled with this. I mean, Luke is a legit scary guy, and is undoubtedly the SCARIEST GUY JABRONIVILLE HAS EVER SEENtm. But I can't get past the get-up. The sloppy shirt and general unkemptness reminds me more of Scary Homeless Guy than Threatening Monster. But he's HUGE and I'd hate to bump into him regardless)
SKILL - 7 (He lucked out in getting paired with Dolph Ziggler for his initial solo run program, and Dolph made the guy look like a million bucks. I've heard he was really good in OVW or NXT or whatever, but I can't attest to that as much, so all I can do is rate his main roster work. His moves look great, but I can't blow up a guy's rating already just because he put on a good program with Ziggler)
CHARISMA - 3 (What charisma? The guy has crazy eyes and some weird hand gestures in-ring, but that's about it. I honestly don't remember a single promo he's ever had)
TOTAL - 18 (This feels perfect for Harper, so I'm happy with it. The guy will NEVER be a World Title main stay, but I see him swimming up-and-down the midcard for years to come)

Erick Rowan
LOOK - 8.5 (Huge, scary, and distinctive. The sheep mask is very identifying touch, and really got over in merchandising)
SKILL - 4.5 (Unlike Harper, who lucked out with Ziggler, Harper's initial solo run saw him programmed with Big Show in Show's "I'm just here for a paycheck" years. I can't really PUNISH Rowan for that, but I can't give him much more than an average score until he has more to work with)
CHARISMA - 3.5 (Unmemorable. His "He's actually a genius!" gimmick feels forced, and even Bray has touched on how silly it is in outside the ring interviews)
TOTAL - 16.5 (Rowan is still young and developing, so he's certainly got room to grow. And I hope they keep developing him because I think he has some tools. But since the Wyatts broke up, Rowan could disappear tomorrow and it would take weeks for me to even notice he was gone).
Title: Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
Post by: Necro on January 11, 2015, 08:45:15 PM
Once again I find myself, mostly, agreeing with you.
Especially with how much the WWE dropped the ball with developing Bray, due to their incessant need to ignore every bit of long term planning for their storylines.

Harper is fantastic.
I thought his role as the "first lieutenant" of Bray worked exceptionally well towards his strengths (I.e. not having to talk), but the break up will maybe help him develop some charisma on his own.

With Erick, I admit, I am biased.
I've grown to like the big lug, and while he is developing slower than Harper, he, too, did start adding new moves to his repertoire (Was surprised to see him do spin kicks).
I agree the "very smart kid" gimmick is idiotic for him though.
Also, his theme is fan-fucking-tastic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_lSm-JFac0
Reminds me heavily of Cirque du Soleil music.
Title: Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
Post by: Not BAMF on January 11, 2015, 08:50:06 PM
Once again I find myself, mostly, agreeing with you.
Especially with how much the WWE dropped the ball with developing Bray, due to their incessant need to ignore every bit of long term planning for their storylines.

Harper is fantastic.
I thought his role as the "first lieutenant" of Bray worked exceptionally well towards his strengths (I.e. not having to talk), but the break up will maybe help him develop some charisma on his own.

With Erick, I admit, I am biased.
I've grown to like the big lug, and while he is developing slower than Harper, he, too, did start adding new moves to his repertoire (Was surprised to see him do spin kicks).
I agree the "very smart kid" gimmick is idiotic for him though.
Also, his theme is fan-fucking-tastic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_lSm-JFac0
Reminds me heavily of Cirque du Soleil music.

Personally, I actually LIKE Rowan more than Harper for reasons I can't quite put my finger on (though I dig them both). And, like I said, I hope they stick with him and keep giving him stuff to work with as he grows into his role. I just can't justify giving him much better scores at this place in his career.
Title: Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
Post by: Jabroniville on January 12, 2015, 02:23:46 AM
THE USOS
Look: 4.5 (very shrimpy guys, but the outfits and facepaint look cool)
Skill: 6 (athletic jump-y guys. The should do more high-flying)
Charisma: 5 (they can only barely get the crowd into their chants. it doesn't help that they never speak otherwise)
Overall: 15.5 (basically average)
-I really don't care about these guys. No personality to them, they just yell and jump around, and they do highspots that aren't even up to the level of WCW's Cruiserweights. Yet now the tag division is so shitty that they're the default champions. Blech.

THE MIZ
Look: 4 (looks like a straight-up pussy next to the entire roster. Apparently he's good-looking, though)
Skill: 5.5 (okay-ish. I've heard he had some good stuff, but I've never seen it)
Charisma: 7 (easily the most punch-able face on the roster, which is something. Just gives off a wave of smarmy, needless cockiness. I've never seen an even passable promo from the guy, though)
Overall: 16.5 (I don't see it with him)
-He'll go down in history as the worst Main Eventer in WrestleMania history, unless they eventually do something EVENT STUPIDER than Miz/Cena. It's too bad, because he's hardly AWFUL, he's just nothing special in the ring, and not as charismatic as someone in his position should have been. I actually see him as a very Honky Tonk Man-ish guy, who looks like a pussy and acts tougher than he is, which is a perfectly-acceptable wrestling character. But Main Eventer? No way- he has nowhere near the credibility.

BAD NEWS BARRETT
Look: 8 (actually way bigger than I initially thought)
Skill: 5.5 (does okay. Big brawler. His finisher stinks)
Charisma: 7 (actually got his stupid gimmick over in an entertaining manner)
Overall: 20.5 (actually higher than I thought)
-He seems like a classic IC-level guy from the old days. I don't see him ever Main Eventing again, but he'll be okay for the Sheamus level.

CODY RHODES
Look: 4 (looks like a scrawny pussy next to actual wrestlers, but is pretty and has an interesting look as Stardust)
Skill: 7 (very fast and smooth as a worker, but he never really BRINGS IT on a big level)
Charisma: 7 (got the potentially career-ruining turn as Stardust over before the company fucked him)
Overall: 18 (quite decent)
-I see Cody peaking at IC level, but there's nothing wrong with that. Given his ability to get some AWFUL angles over, I see him getting over even with stuff meant as archaic PUNISHMENTS. Which is a big compliment, actually- Cesaro couldn't do it.

RUSEV
LooK: 7.5 (odd- he's stocky as FUCK, and anyone who knows anything about real combat knows he'd be a monster in a real fight, but his physique and size are unimpressive, so he's lower than a Monster Heel should be)
Skill: 7 (a very good Umaga-style brawler)
Charisma: 4 (Incomplete. Has a "Talker", which is good for him)
Overall: 18.5 (a Monster Heel with an unknown upside, I can see him Main Eventing)
-They keep fucking with this guy- he should be TEARING through the roster, raping guys left and right. And yet they make him wrestle competitive matches against losers constantly, and he often loses by DQ. I have no idea what his peak could be, but he'll probably settle into IC-level after LOLCENAWINS.

ADAM ROSE
Look: 5.5 (tall and lanky like Edge was, but not as good-looking. And OH MY GOD THAT FUCKING PURSE-LIPPED FACE I WANT TO KICK HIM IN THE TEETH)
Skill: 4 (has shown basically nothing. Utterly tanked in the ring)
Charisma: 4.5 (took what was a big hit on a small show and bombed with it live, and came off unlikeable and overly-effeminate for a babyface on live TV)
Overall: 14 (below-average)
-What a disaster this yutz turned out to be. Bad in the ring, bad on the mic, and with an Indie-level gimmick that failed to get over in a big show. Just a giant failure, and he's already basically been buried.

CESARO
Look: 8 (muscular, handsome and strong- what hairy bald guys like me aspire to look like)
Skill: 8.5 (got over purely on in-ring work- he was probably even better in the less-held-back Ring of Honor, but I've not seen it. If left to go all-out Main Event Style, he could easily be a 9.5 or a 10)
Charisma: 3 (shitty English skills, and needs to get over with awesome moves and timing)
Overall: 19.5 (if he learned to talk, or got his mouthpiece back, he could be Main Eventing in a week)
-Possibly the most-disappointing part of last year, even compared to Bryan's getting injured. This just took the wind RIGHT the fuck out of my sails- Cesaro was READY, got Heyman with him, and could have been Main Eventing... but instead they de-pushed him for no fucking reason and ensured he wouldn't get over all year. They took away his most-over offense and had him lose constantly. Why even bother watching the program if someone like Cesaro isn't let hit his peak?

BRAY WYATT
Look: 7 (bulky and chubby, but kinda scary-looking. Without the whole "Bearded psycho" look he'd be lower)
Skill: 6.5 (he looked like shit in enough matches that many fans were just assuming he was a poor worker, but has showed a few more things lately. Tough to assess, as they've deliberately kept him out of the ring)
Charisma: 8 (he lacks the "big promos", but like everyone's said, when he talks, people listen. A bit too... "I'm just gonna keep saying vague stuff so you'll think I'm more deep than I am")
Overall: 21.5
-A Cesaro-level disappointment from last year. Though it's odd- he was legitimately pushed to the top against guys like Bryan & Cena, and often beat them. But the never-ending push of Cena eventually winning just cut his balls off, especially after he followed it with a weak feud against Jericho. And it got WORSE as his promos just became same-old same-old rambling stuff. His act is getting tired, and that's gonna be a disaster for a guy who needs them to stay over.

ERIC ROWAN
Look: 8.5 (no physique, but big and distinctive)
Skill: 4 (standard Big Plodding Brawler, but a good bit faster and more sell-happy than most)
Charisma: 5 (just stands there most of the time, but is getting over)
Overall: 17.5
-An unknown upside, but actually got over pretty well on his own as a Weird Babyface. Who knows?

LUKE HARPER
Look: 8 (looks as crazy as anyone with the big beard, and he's a good-sized dude)
Skill: 7 (actually looks the best out of his team- he had a few good singles matches a while back)
Charisma: 6 (intense and creepy)
Overall: 21
-Actually, of the whole stable, Luke could end up having the biggest upside if he becomes a better talker. He has a distinctive look, good size, and he's the best of the stable in the ring. A few more killer moves and he could be sub-Main Event level in a second.
Title: Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
Post by: Necro on January 12, 2015, 02:32:54 AM
Fuck, every time I read people giving their opinion about Bray, I get pissed all over with how much the WWE dropped the ball on him.
And FUCK CENA!
And Jericho, whose feud did NOTHING for Bray.!
Title: Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
Post by: Jabroniville on January 12, 2015, 02:54:07 AM
I think they really jumped the gun with Bray. He looked like a fool when Bryan turned on him, then got stuck with Cena for months, when it should have been a LONG build up to a Cena match. He could have formed an entire cult around himself and converted a few wrestlers along the way to gain credibility. Instead he hit the very top immediately (like it was the 1980s of Hogan again), and now has nowhere to go but down.
Title: Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
Post by: Strawman Abridged on January 12, 2015, 02:59:40 AM
Quote
THE USOS
Skill: 6 (athletic jump-y guys. The should do more high-flying)

They really shouldn't. They're not the most well-tuned high-flyers. Hell, it takes a half hour for that one guy to climb the corner to do his backwards flippy thing. One bad, sloppy spill and it's several months out on med leave.

Besides, they're Samoans. Superkicks, splashes, and Samoan drops ad infinitum will suffice. If anything, they need to mix in more headbutts.
Title: Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
Post by: Strawman Abridged on January 12, 2015, 03:15:04 AM
I think they really jumped the gun with Bray. He looked like a fool when Bryan turned on him, then got stuck with Cena for months, when it should have been a LONG build up to a Cena match.

He actually had a fair amount of momentum going at point, I think. Bray won his Rumble match with Bryan pretty clean. Would've perfectly set up a feud with a World Champion Bryan further down the line.

Bray would've been MADE at Mania had Cena's doofy ass done the job that night. His overness reached a crescendo when he was playing Maestro to the crowd. They were fucking putty in his hands. But of course, WWE had to go and cock it up with that lame ass ending. Fuck Cena and his atrocious acting, made things even worse. Bray would never reach his stride again, even now.

Things went downhill soon after that with Bray suffering loss after loss to Cena afterwards. Well, minus that one ladder match that required heaps of interference, thus making him look weak as shit. Because WWE obviously didn't learn their lesson when they failed to elevate Ziggler with the EXACT SAME GAMEPLAN.

God I hope Michael Cole suffers Bells Palsy. I want Vince hurt.
Title: Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
Post by: Necro on January 12, 2015, 03:22:24 AM
I think they really jumped the gun with Bray. He looked like a fool when Bryan turned on him, then got stuck with Cena for months, when it should have been a LONG build up to a Cena match.

He actually had a fair amount of momentum going at point, I think. Bray won his Rumble match with Bryan pretty clean. Would've perfectly set up a feud with a World Champion Bryan further down the line.

Bray would've been MADE at Mania had Cena's doofy ass done the job that night. His overness reached a crescendo when he was playing Maestro to the crowd. They were fucking putty in his hands. But of course, WWE had to go and cock it up with that lame ass ending. Fuck Cena and his atrocious acting, made things even worse. Bray would never reach his stride again, even now.

Things went downhill soon after that with Bray suffering loss after loss to Cena afterwards. Well, minus that one ladder match that required heaps of interference, thus making him look weak as shit. Because WWE obviously didn't learn their lesson when they failed to elevate Ziggler with the EXACT SAME GAMEPLAN.

God I hope Michael Cole suffers Bells Palsy. I want Vince hurt.

Nexus.

Pretty much -everyone- feuding with Cena comes out looking worse.
Except maybe Rollins so far, because he really is -that- good, but his feud is long not over, and I expect Cena to bury the shit out of him yet.
Title: Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
Post by: Jabroniville on January 12, 2015, 03:31:53 AM
Cena's so fucking weird. On one hand, he's a decent-enough act, the crowd reactions are fun, and he has big feuds where he even drops a lot of falls- I can't think of a Main Eventer who's done more jobs. Hogan & Austin were a MILLION times more protected, and even Foley & Rock seemed to have more credibility.

However... Cena seems to not be doing the RIGHT jobs. And he always just pops back into the Main Event. He really shouldn't be the "Tippy-Top Guy" anymore- he's proven that he can't move the dial, and like you've all said, he's ACTIVELY hurting his opponents. Even when he loses, it seems he can't even give the proper "rub" to each individual guy.

Rollins is a perfect example- he seemed READY to be the Next Big Heel. Except 3-4 months of Cena Fighting has basically made him look like a weaksauce, ineffectual pussy.


some more guys:
RYBACK
Look: 10 (huge, muscular guy. Vince's ideal wrestler look, really, though shorter than some)
Skill: 2 (FUCK)
Charisma: 5 (actually came off a bit well with some real promo time, though usually sounds retarded)
Overall: 17
-I'm not seeing a big upside on Roidback, who's SO CLEARLY breaking the Wellness Policy's rules, never mind being prone to injuring his opponents. He's basically a whiter, less-over Ahmed Johnson.

CURTIS AXEL
Look: 7 (solid, big-ish guy, but looks like a Jobber)
Skill: 3 (utterly dull)
Charisma: 2 (can he even speak?)
Overall: 12 (of all life's disappointments, perhaps the greatest ever is that Curt Hennig did not have Perfect Sperm)
-A nothing guy- they should repackage him in a few months under his real name, and hopefully train some of the suck out of him. One of the biggest IC disappointments ever, and part of why that belt has no more credibility. If you're gonna stick it on guys you're never using, put it on Sheamus or Barrett- someone who can at least wrestle and be a bit charismatic.

JACK SWAGGER
Look: 6.5 (tall & athletic but dull as dishwater)
Skill: 6 (seems capable but boring)
Charisma: 3 (never talks)
Overall: 15.5
-Swagger's a bit curious to me, because he's actually VERY BIG, but looks smaller than he should compared to everyone else- I think it's his athletic-but-unimpressive physique. He just fits in as some generic "Filler Guy", and I don't know if he'll ever surpass that. The fact that he was once a World Champion given his current level is INSANE to me, especially because he's so young.

FANDANGO
Look: 5 (pretty but average-sized)
Skill: 5.5 (only has short matches, but looks okay)
Charisma: 5 (never really gets a shot)
Overall: 15.5
-Just a meaningless midcard filler guy. He needs to step it up in the ring BIG-TIME if he's ever going to be anything, because he doesn't have the size or the charisma to go far.

DEAN AMBROSE
Look: 4.5 (stupid-looking and average-sized)
Skill: 7 (looks alright, but I'm not nearly as impressed as others. I've never seen him do non-generic stuff in the ring)
Charisma: 8 (he's getting super-over by being crazy and dangerous- he's basically a low-end Piper or Austin in that respect)
Overall: 19.5
-Calling him the next coming of "Stone Cold" is going WAY too far, but he's got a psychotic, energetic charisma that works really well, and he was getting QUITE over with the crowd before they cut his balls off with that stupid Wyatt feud that seems designed purely to reduce his popularity so that Reigns can look better. I don't know what their plan is with him.

SETH ROLLINS
Look: 8 (I long for his man-babies)
Skill: 7.5 (a big high-flier, but hasn't done as well in singles)
Charisma: 7 (he's yet to wow me, but he's pretty good at being a snivelling heel)
Overall: 22.5 (wow, I REALLY underrated him before)
-Rollins is the best overall member of The Shield, and seems destined for a big role, which is odd, because I gave him middling, average scores last time (17.5 total). But he's revealed a sexy-ass body, a ton of high-flying, and some charisma since then- before, he just looked like The Other Guy on The Shield.

ROMAN REIGNS
Look: 8.5 (big and good-looking, but not Monster-sized)
Skill: 5.5 (has more "big moves" than his teammates, but is more limited in the ring)
Charisma: 5 (just another Silent Staring Guy)
Overall: 19 (not ready for the Main Event)
-Some bad work has been done on Reigns lately, but he could go anywhere, given that the top guys all love him. HOWEVER, the IWC has seemed to be CHOMPING AT THE BIT to start a Bootista-like rebellion against his upcoming Rocket Push (despite the actual crowds not biting), and that doesn't bode well. The fact that he's been mostly-average since The Shield split up isn't helping him, either.
Title: Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
Post by: Necro on January 12, 2015, 03:48:10 AM
The fact that you have Roman Reigns just 0.5 lower than Dean Ambrose makes me look at your whole rating system with some suspicion.

No way should Reigns even come -close- to that level.
Title: Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
Post by: Imperial on January 12, 2015, 04:11:51 AM
I'm a big Jerichoholic. But much as I hate to say it, Chris does not have main event or even close to status anymore. He's basically just a former bigtimer who is now a beloved midcarder/upper-midcarder that everyone knows comes back to job.

He no longer has enough credibility to heal younger talents more than a bit after they have been damaged by Cena. Sides iirc did they not job Bray to Cena on the first show after Summerslam? Kind of kills the whole point of even doing Jericho vs Wyatt if they are just going to feed Bray to the same guy who knocked him down the card a few months earlier. John certainly does not need the put over.

Roman's look is more marketable than Ryback's imo. (I think Ryback and Big E should be the same score there. The only functional differences are skin color and hair.) Roman's look is mostly why he is getting the main event/hoped for next Cena push.
Title: Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
Post by: Jabroniville on January 12, 2015, 04:20:45 AM
The fact that you have Roman Reigns just 0.5 lower than Dean Ambrose makes me look at your whole rating system with some suspicion.

No way should Reigns even come -close- to that level.
Reigns has a great Look and is pitifully average elsewhere. Dean has a poorer look but well-above-average Skill & Charisma. Those attributes will carry him a lot further than Reigns' will (unless Vince's gayness for Reigns' look puts him over the top). There's more to a guy than just their Total, you know. Even BAMF, a bigger Ambrose fan than I am (I just don't see it as much with that guy), only puts him 2 points higher overall.
Title: Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
Post by: Imperial on January 12, 2015, 05:30:40 AM
I'll begin with the two big stables from the recent past.


Roman Reigns
Look: 9 (Looks like a guy who can steal your girlfriend by charms or fists.)
Skill : 5 (Getting better as time goes on. Though the three month absence set him back some. Has good signature strike moves.)
Charisma : 5.5 (Possesses natural presence and gets people to react to what he does. Being green on the mic shows though.)
Overall : 19.5 (I think he has main event like raw ability. But it's a year too early.)


Seth Rollins
Look: 8 (Handsome and sinister.)
Skill: 9 (A candidate for best worker in the fed when Bryan is not around.)
Charisma: 7 (Has done surprisingly well here. Cuts better promos as time goes on. Plays a sometimes merciless but suck up heel well.)
Overall : 24 (Was the best overall performer for the E in 2014 as far as I am concerned.)


Dean Ambrose
Look: 5  (Tall though kind of ruffian and drably dressed.) 
Skill: 7.5 (Almost brings a Foley like quality to mind for me. Not superb technically but a lot of fun.)
Charisma: 8.5 (One of the better promo cutters in the whole fed. Also possesses that crazy character presence.)
Overall: 21 (It's obvious he is very get overable. But will Vince let him be a top face?)


Bray Wyatt
Look: 7 (Not as tall as the others, but distinctive and better dressed.)
Skill: 6.5 (Starting to make his move here lately.)
Charisma: 8 (May indeed have the "it factor." Needs to get better booking before he turns into a guy who just talks without results.)
Overall: 21.5 (The ingredients are here. He's one of those guys at the mercy of booking in terms of where he lands.)


Luke Harper
Look: 7.5 (Unique and big, though outfit is bland.)
Skill: 7 (Has shown the most actual wrestling skill of the Wyatts so far.)
Charisma: 5 (Has cut a few fairly promising albeit short promos since going single.)
Overall : 19.5  (Figures to be an upper midcard heel for quite some time now.)

Eric Rowan
Look: 8 (Big & fearsome with a unique mask. Plain clothing and ugly face though.)
Skill: 4 (Has gotten better recently however.)
Charisma: 3.5 (No real developed persona.)
Overall 15.5 (Now a capable midcarder who is improving.)
Title: Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
Post by: Imperial on January 12, 2015, 06:34:01 AM
Rusev
Look : 7.5 (Legit eastern bloc olympian looking material and mean. Though not tall for a monster heel.)
Skill : 8  (Among the best sellers in the fed. Shows more agility than quite a few smaller wrestlers.)
Charisma : 4 (Has made something out of what some would say is an 80's gimmick. Has shown flashes when given a chance on the mic. But doesn't talk much.) 
Overall 19.5 (Has potential to be one of their long standing big men. If they don't treat him like a Cena doggie biscuit.)

Bad News Barrett
Look : 8 (Tall, has the swagger, the accent, looks tough.)
Skill : 6.5 (Sometimes flies under the radar but his stuff with Sheamus and Ziggler has been sweet. Had a fairly nice tv match with Reigns too. Weak signature moves though.)   
Charisma : 8 (Strong on the mic and his catchphrase is magnif.)
Overall :  22.5 (If he can stay healthy, Wade is one of the more complete talents on the roster and should be in the running toward at least a gate keeper place under the main event. Somehow I don't see it happening though.)

Dolph Ziggler
Look : 6 (Kind of smallish, but in shape and handsome. Smartly dropped the pink outfits and ass shaking.)
Skill : 8.5 (One of the best workers around.)
Charisma : 6.5 (Mic work is better than it used to be. Seems to have found his niche as a natural never say die face.)
Overall : 21 (Has upped his game. A guy that is there for the pushing if they wish. It has to happen soon, if it ever will.) 

Bo Dallas
Look : 3 (Small and somewhat soft)
Skill : 3 (Has he ever had a good match? One of the weakest wrestlers on the roster.)
Charisma : 4.5 (Not a terrible talker, but no presence and stuck with a by nature short lived cheap gimmick.)
Overall : 10.5 (Jobber material.)

Big Show
Look : 10 (Still a sight to behold because of sheer size.)
Skill : 3 (Used to be good considering his size. But no more.)
Charisma : 6 (Still one of the better talkers around. But his turns at a whim haven gotten very tiring.)
Overall : 19 (Winding down a strong career.)

Sin Cara/Hunico
Look : 5  (Cool colorful masks. On the small and generically built side.)
Skill : 4.5 (Some nice high spot moves. But little substance.)
Charisma : 2 (Doesn't talk, is uninteresting in general.)
Overall : 11.5 ( Amazing that the Sin Cara character was once thought to be a big deal in the E.)
Title: Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
Post by: Jabroniville on January 12, 2015, 07:34:35 AM
Yeah, we're all pretty much on the same page with Reigns- great Look, mid-range at everything else. We're also all very close on Ambrose- I'm at 19.5 and others are at 21.
Title: Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
Post by: Imperial on January 12, 2015, 08:43:56 AM
Jack Swagger
Look: 7.5 (Legit six and a half footer and not far off 300 pounds. Athletic though kind of bland.)
Skill: 6.5 (Varies wildly depending upon motivation. He can be anything from a solid top ten worker to just average like.
Charisma: 4 (Was actually talking more and better in recent times. The Soaring Eagle era though was his high interest point.
Overall: 18 (Jack is a good talent that they missed on and then doghoused after the dui and pot.)

Kofi Kingston:
Look: 5 (Different but smallish and not all that developed.)
Skill: 6 (Good for spots and excitement. Had a run where he was actually doing substantial work a few years back. But that died with his better IC pushes.)
Charisma: 4 (Needed a character remake long ago. Now it is too late.)
Overall: 15 (A former favorite of mine that is probably on his last legs in the E.)

Heath Slater
Look: 3 (Smallish, puny, and not good looking.)
Skill: 4 (He has a small cult following who swear he is good but I just don't see anything special.)
Charisma: 3.5 (Is occasionally amusing but only for a second and has no presence whatsosver.)
Overall : 10.5 (At the bottom of the card where he belongs.)

Sheamus
Look: 8.5 (Solid and unique. You are not going to forget him.)
Skill: 7 (Underrated sometimes but a solid all around ring performer.)
Charisma: 4.5 (Bingo, we've reached his weakness. Doesn't talk all that well and his character is staler than month old bread.)
Overall : 20 (A solid all around hand that lacks that something extra to make him special.)
Title: Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
Post by: Not BAMF on January 12, 2015, 10:09:34 AM
I haven't done Swagger yet, but when I do later today, I'm going to get killed for it; I just know. I've always been SUPER high on him, and I think every aspect of him says Main Event Guy. I have just gotten used to his misuse by now, but I think the guy's solid gold.
Title: Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
Post by: Not BAMF on January 12, 2015, 08:07:30 PM
Jack Swagger
LOOK - 7.5 (Jack is a BIG GUY without seeming like a monster. He's in shape, but not chiseled)
SKILL - 7.5 (Swagger can put on some really good matches, and he's very technically sound. He moves around the ring really fluidly, too. Match psychology is a weak spot for him, even in the current era where everyone suffers there)
CHARISMA - 7.5 (I've always thought Swagger was pretty good here. His run as World Champ was very entertaining, as his his solo run with Coulter before they picked up Cesaro. He and Coulter had some great back-and-forth stuff, with Swagger being unappreciatedly funny)
TOTAL - 22.5 (Yeah, super high. I knew it. I think Swagger should be a shoo-in main event talent, but I also see that he is just well-rounded and doesn't excel in any one area, so maybe that--and his own vices--are what is holding him back)

Brock Lesnar
LOOK - 10 (Yeah. Obvs)
SKILL - 5 (He has fallen off DRAMATICALLY from his first WWE run. Has he even had a GOOD match in 2014? I know he hasn't had MANY, but they haven't been good. His most memorable match was the massacre of Cena, but it wasn't memorable because it was a classic)
CHARISMA - 4 (He's saddled with Heyman for a reason. He's a guy who is much more charismatic as HIMSELF than he is as a WWE character/superstar)
TOTAL - 19 (YEAH. Jack Swagger IS 3.5 better than Brock Lesnar. ...... Well, Brock does have that glaring TEN, which is always a big deal. A solid ten in any one era is a big deal, and it can rocket people even if they aren't great in the other areas. And he's adequate enough in other categories to not be held back by them, so...)

Tyson Kidd
LOOK - 5 (Scrawny dude, but he has such a punchable face)
SKILL - 8 (He's good, but overrated by the IWC at large)
CHARISMA - 5 (He basically just jumps around and acts obnoxious. It's fun, and he's doing it well enough, but a pretty easy role to play)
TOTAL - 18 (Way higher than I personally think of Kidd. I'm not a fan, personally)
Title: Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
Post by: Wyntyr on January 12, 2015, 09:48:42 PM
I think one of the bigger things holding Swagger back is his Kurt Angle/ barrel-chest/ tiny-arms body. The dude is huge and has an incredible athletic build, but not that typical body builder body that Vince creams over
Title: Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
Post by: Jabroniville on January 12, 2015, 10:55:31 PM
Cock Chestnar is a bit tough, but has an advantage not shown via the ratings system- credibility. As the former UFC Champion, Brock is instantly credible in his matches. There is absolutely no doubt that if be wanted, he could hold John Cena down and fuck him up the ass.
Title: Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
Post by: Jabroniville on January 13, 2015, 02:18:55 AM
Some bigger names:

-An issue I'm having with the Skill rating is that I hate the modern Main Event style- it's just not entertaining to me, and so I'm penalizing a lot of major guys. Plus I haven't watched any PPVs, so I'm missing guys at their peak.

GOLDUST
Look: 7 (always interesting, and he's not as chubby as he used to be)
Skill: 7 (he's actually gotten BETTER with age, even popping out new moves well into his 40s!)
Charisma: 8 (a really top-notch dude and a great actor)
Overall: 22 (really, really high)
-Goldust is one of the most-depressing stories of last year. The guy comes back to the company over the "Cody is Fired!" angle, tries to win "the good son"s job back, but fails against Orton and is dumped, too. But THEN the Dust Brothers come back, WIN their jobs back triumphantly, and even become Tag Team champions, unseating the top-tier Shield stable! And then they job to The Old Age Outlaws, get a brutal de-push, then fuck off and die. One meaningless heel turn later, and you have a forgettable Tag Team duo that doesn't even get a push. And Goldust is the best he's EVER BEEN, too!

THE BIG SHOW
Look: 10 (yeah, just too huge to not be a credible fighter)
Skill: 2.5 (time has not been kind to the aging Showster. Not that he ever had GOOD matches...)
Charisma: 8 (really, really underrated. His run as the guy fighting the Authority featured Meryl Streep-level acting by wrestling standards)
Overall: 21 (Quite good, though he's been around too long to really cap it off)
-The Big Show is more or less being used right- a guy you can trot out for random Main Event pushes every year or so, put against any opponent, and make him put over your future top-tier acts. His current feud against Roman Reigns may not be ideal for testing Reigns' workrate, but he's doing wonders for the guy's cred by selling his ass off for that Superman Punch. I was really into his "I just need to feed my family" angle, though of course it was a disaster to try and have him be a legit World Title contender (the ratings SUCKED for the PPV), and the fans didn't care for his attempts at taking over the "YES!" chants. He shouldn't be a World Title contender anymore, and he's turned face & heel too many times in his INSANELY long career (and almost all of it spent on a national stage) for him to have any more meaning, but he's fine as a Main Event Jobber.

KANE
Look: 8.5 (getting flabby and old-looking)
Skill: 1.5 (holy fuckfarts is he bad. He's like Sid-level bad, now, but without having well-executed finishers like Sid did)
Charisma: 7 (His monster act is tired, and his Corporate Kane thing does nothing for anybody)
Overall: 17 (the worst he's ever been)
-Kane just really needs to go. His age is holding him back, as he's not a physical specimen, his act is BEYOND tired, and he's turning into one of those Jeff Jarrett-level Charisma Black Holes that can make any segment worse just by having him around. His best role now is a Big Show-like Main Event Jobber, not messing around endlessly. Sticking Daniel Bryan with him was one of the worst booking decisions of last year, especially now that Kane's cred means almost nothing.

BO DALLAS
Look: 3.5 (short and flabby-looking)
Skill: 5 (I haven't seen much good or bad from him)
Charisma: 5.5 (almost kinda-sorta was getting over with his act)
Overall: 14 (bad. Jobber Bad)
-Bo's also turned out to be nothing- they seemed to be almost going somewhere with him, but they gave up REALLY, REALLY FAST. Suddenly he jobbed out to low-tier acts and taken off TV. What a weird mess. Sure he didn't seem any good, but what was the harm in trying?

RANDY ORTON
Look: 9 (a great physique, and probably the most beautiful man in wrestling. A bit lanky for an intimidating look, though)
Skill: 6.5 (has plenty of decent-to-fine matches, but struggles against weaker opponents or making anyone else look good)
Charisma: 7.5 (I think he really struggles here. He plays "intense" well, but doesn't have any memorable Main Event Promos)
Overall: 22 (really high overall, but not what he should be)
-Orton's had an awful year, which is odd, because he was Champion for a lot of it. He's basically played the Butt-Monkey of The Authority for most of it, and was made to look foolish, requiring help almost constantly. And then he was taken off TV, JUST when the "RKO- OUT OF NOWHERE!" thing became an internet meme! Other workers speak to his working ability (saying he's like a dream to work with), but as a fan, I don't find it actually reflecting on the quality of his matches. The fact that he's been around as long as Cena, but jumped around Big Show-like with his allegiances, doesn't help.

BOOTISTA
Look: 8.5 (has not aged well. He's muscular, but looks like an old lesbian)
Skill: 2 (oh JESUS what happened? He was always Botchtista, but he just shrivelled up)
Charisma: 6.5 (just didn't seem to give a fuck, and it showed)
Overall: 17 (nowhere near what he should have been)
-The return of Batista should have worked fine, but they utterly buggered the whole push. Giving him a WORLD TITLE SHOT IMMEDIATELY just soured fans on him right out of the gate, and then the BRYAN thing snowballed, resulting in a massive backlash. And he didn't do a single thing to fix it (or even capitalize on the Heel Heat), as you can see it took the wind out of his sails, and made him start half-assing it even worse. Just a massive disaster.

C.M. PUNK
Look: 5.5 (very small and flabby, but the ladies love him, and his tattoos look decent enough)
Skill: 8.5 (he's looked injured as fuck all year, but is one of their best guys)
Charisma: 10 (probably the best in the company for the past SEVERAL years- the best since Rocky)
Overall: 24 (probably the best overall guy)
-Punk's had an awful year, but mainly because he quit so early. The Lesnar feud was alright, and produced some of the best moments that didn't involve Daniel Bryan, but Punk was suffering physically, and then took his ball and went home. He's also funny because he's got the reverse problem Cena has- he's so awesome that he CAN'T BE A PROPER HEEL, as the fans automatically start cheering for him! This messes up a lot of his angles, as he can act like a major scumbag, but still get people behind him. It doesn't help that he seems like a bit of a selfish ass and a man-whore in real life (I have no doubt that he's an aggressive prick to a lot of people), yet is still smart and charismatic enough to make people take his side in debates in spite of it.
Title: Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
Post by: pittfox on January 13, 2015, 04:15:24 AM
Brock has very strong charisma. I would say at least a 7 and personally more like a 9. Something about being a legit badass. If you are using mic skill as a the main criteria then 4 is ok. His skill should be a bit higher to. The Punk match is one of my favorite matches ever.
Title: Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
Post by: Jabroniville on January 14, 2015, 01:20:27 AM
Here's the last batch of guys:

DANIEL BRYAN

Look: 5.5 (itty-bitty, but has a distinctive beard and a good wreslter-looking physique. This might be too high)
Skill: 9 (against a higher class of opponent, I can easily see him as a full "10", but not in the current WWE Main Event Style as it is now. I've actually never seen his ROH stuff, either. He's probably that good there)
Charisma: 9 (he actually struggles a bit with long promos- often just kinda mumbling or being a regular guy, but he has GREAT charisma that puts him over the top. Few other wrestlers could have gotten "YES!" that over)
Overall: 23.5 (a top-tier talent)
-Bryan is a great success story, but also horribly depressing- few would have given him a chance as a top-tier guy, but he eventually got SO OVER by virtue of his wrestling skill and his raw charisma (and catchphrase-ability, something most modern guys struggle with) that he basicall hijacked the shows and became the World Champion. This is a truly unique, once-in-a-lifetime thing, and was the most fascinating part of last year's wrestling. But alas, they stuck him in the worst feud ever with Kane The Liability, and then he got hurt and vanished, leaving his useless wife to kill the fuck out of every segment (remember when she was a virtuous babyface and being picked on by her evil sister? ME NEITHER BECAUSE THEY'RE TOTALLY JUST EVIL HEELS NOW). I REALLY hope he doesn't turn into another Edge- a guy with limitless capabilities, but an injury-prone body that can't hold up to the rigors of the business (his long time in the bump-heavy ROH probably did him no favors). It's almost a benefit that he was hurt, since he's the uncrowned Champion and would have just been gobbled up by Lesnar this year anyways.

SIN CARA
Look: 6 (whatever physique. Cool mask)
Skill: 6 (fine, I guess. Haven't seen him too much)
Charisma: 4 (kind of just stands there and does nothing. A complete blank)
Overall: 16 (barely there)
-This guy's been totally pointless all year. First they switch guys (apparently they've done that before), and now he's just a JTTS nobody. Very odd.

JOHN CENA
Look: 10 (basically Vince's wet dream, and looks like Matt Damon on HGH. Needs to lose the jorts)
Skill: 6 (meh, whatever. Totally "same old" in the ring, and a standard Main Event Brawler)
Charisma: 7 (actually gets some great fiery promos, but sucks ass at long promos, and often devolves into childish jokes. Can't appeal to half the audience)
Overall: 23 (upper-level guy)
-Cena's just tired. He was and is a perfectly-fine Main Eventer, but he's officially had one of the longest runs as The Ace in wrestling history, and he's just NOT good enough for it. Especially since he's been playing the same character. It's just... you stick a guy with Cena, he shows some ass for a while, then he bounces back and wins in the end. He's jobbed more than any Ace in wrestling history, but VERY few guys come out of his feuds looking any better or any stronger.

BROCK LESNAR
Look: 10 (not as great as he used to be, but I'll include his "Bad-Ass Aura" here- his credibility as UFC Heavyweight Champion basically means he's a Main Event-level threat no matter what)
Skill: 5.5 (I actually have no idea- he only wrestles on PPV, and I haven't seen any. Apparently did okay sometimes, but not great)
Charisma: 6 (rarely cuts effective promos, but is great when he wants to be)
Overall: 21.5 (not where a World Champion needs to be)
-He's also been a disaster this year- they killed The Streak for a guy who only shows up on TV a few times a year (thus tanking ratings), wrestles at only a couple of PPVs, and now looks to be dumping wrestling AGAIN for UFC.

REY MYSTERIO
Look: 5 (roided up and has an awesome mask for a look. Tiny, though)
Skill: 7 (a great seller, but he's slowed down a lot)
Charisma: 6 (great at getting sympathy heat, but his accent is awful and he can't do promos well)
Overall: 18 (no longer worthy of the Main Event, and better as a mid-tier guy)
-Rey's just floundered, especially since he's so hurt. Probably better off as a Special Attraction, but now THOSE GUYS are starting to outnumber the actual wrestlers.

MARK HENRY
Look: 8.5 (Big scary back man)
Skill: 2.5 (blurgh. Just terrible now that he's gotten old in addition to being fat)
Charisma: 8 (can still cut some AMAZING promos, but generally doesn't get to)
Overall: 18.5 (mid-tier guy)
-Henry cut one HELL of a promo when he threatened retirement, but then murdered Cena. It was AWESOME. But after that, he just segued right back to being a Happy Smiling Babyface, and disappeared down the card. He's fine as a Jobber to other top-level Monster Heels, and can basically be repackaged any time due to his Monster Aura and charisma, but he can't get it done in the ring.

R-TRUTH
Look: 8 (scary black man with an INTENSE physique. Black don't crack, man)
Skill: 5.5 (jump-y and fast, but never really blows your mind)
Charisma: 5.5 (raps and does stuff to pump up the crowd, but never leaves the "Jobber Area" with it)
Overall: 19 (woah- higher than I thought. That seems wrong)
-He's got a decent rating because he's not really BAD at anything, but he's so middling in most of it, in addition to being a tired act in the same old role, so it doesn't matter. He's just your standard Smiling Dancing Negro to jump around for Massa Vince's enjoyment.

CHRIS JERICHO
Look: 5 (getting chubby and older looking, but his squatness actually makes him a bit more "credible")
Skill: 7 (can still get it done, but not to his old level)
Charisma: 8 (still Chris Jericho, but doesn't care as much now that he's a permanent Midcarder)
Ovearll: 20 (still good)
-Jericho is now what Foley was five or six years ago- a guy who comes out to job, and everyone knows it. It's not the worst role for him (he's a bit long of tooth), but eventually the fans aren't going to care once they recognize that he's ONLY here to put over newer, younger acts. The Bray Wyatt feud was a mess for this reason, and it wasn't over.

TRIPLE-H
Look: 7.5 (he's aged a lot, but is still bulky)
Skill: 6 (age & roids are a bad combo- he's just a plodding brawler now)
Charisma: 6.5 (can occasionally get it done in big-time promos, but he's the same old Hunter- a long rambler with no real message or ability to get himself over. Often devolves to just smirking and blowing his opponents off, which is the WORST trait a heel could possibly have)
Overall: 20 (still good)
-Trips is in a weird role, where he's the Vince McMahon who doesn't show ass the way Vince did- Vince was CONSTANTLY being humiliated on TV, to the point where every time he got one over on Austin, he'd get a HUGE ass-kicking next week (or get pissed on or something) to make up for it. Hunter... just smirks at his opponents, runs roughshod over them, and makes them look like they're beneath him. He DESTROYS the Babyfaces who oppose him, and seems to get about 90% while his enemies get 10% (Vince was 50/50, and often looked WORSE). Moreover, The Authority no longer make sense- at least they could play off that Bryan wasn't "Marketable" (the rub being that he WAS, but his unconventiality made him a good Anti-Corporate type), but why are they feuding with fucking CENA if that's the case? He's the Merch Seller He-Man and everyone knows it! They've gone from the epitome of Corporate Marketing Villains to just Evil Heel Owners who hate everyone who's the babyface, so their feuds and their motivations make no sense.
Title: Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
Post by: Necro on January 14, 2015, 03:46:03 AM
I'm really not sure why you gave Cena a 6 in skill.
Each of his matches are the very same.
1. Get beat upon by the bad guy for 15 mins
2. Suddenly get up, hit your 5 moves. If Interrupted in the middle, start from 1.
3. Overcome the odds in the last 5 seconds and win.

Charisma?
I think he is a Charisma BLACK HOLE!
I think he used to be good, because his MadTV stuff is gold, but nowadays it's a joke.
He can't act for the life of him, and the segments where he talks is the worst.
Title: Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
Post by: Speed of Zound on January 14, 2015, 05:00:09 AM
When Trips does finally sell a promo its always great though; I has never heard the name 'Cactus Jack' until Mankind announced he'd wrestle Trips under that name in their Street Fight and the sell Hunter did really made me think Jack was hot shit. When Jack challenged him to a Hell in a Cell was also good.
Title: Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
Post by: Jabroniville on January 14, 2015, 05:41:00 AM
I gave Cena a "6" in Skill to be nice :). He's had a few good matches over the years, can go to 10-15 minutes and not humiliate himself, has good cardio, and apparently still brings it in Main Events on PPV. I find all his matches skippable.

He's a "7" in Charisma because he's still ENORMOUSLY popular with at least one segment of the fanbase. Again, I'd put him closer to "5" if I was being biased against him, if not lower. But any Main Eventer who's on top for THAT length of time absolutely has to be in the upper segment of Charisma, even if I hate him.
Title: Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
Post by: Jabroniville on January 14, 2015, 05:58:30 AM
24 is the highest of any current guy. The highest I'd EVER go is 28, which is what Macho Man (8/10/10) and Kurt Angle (8/10/10) have. I think anyone with a "10" in look is just going to be too bulky to match their level of Skill, and likely spends too much time in the gym to develop a real personality. Nobody excelled at wrestling like those two did, on every level.
Title: Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
Post by: Imperial on January 14, 2015, 08:42:26 AM
Jab really is kinder with the ratings at the bottom than I am. When he thinks someone is lackluster, they seem to still find a way to get some dignifying points. When I do, not really so. Just look at our Sin Cara and Bo Dallas scores. I suspect it would be the same story with Heath. The Ascension would not even get into double digits in my scoring. Then again that act may even be too much for Jab to give salvation points to.
Title: Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
Post by: Jabroniville on January 14, 2015, 05:06:26 PM
Heh - the Ascension seem awful, but it's too early for me to judge. They almost seem like a parody of 1980s tag teams, like they're trolling fans for complaining that they want another Monster Tag Team.
Title: Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
Post by: Wyntyr on January 14, 2015, 09:28:10 PM
The Ascension was actually fairly good in NXT. They had some really good matches with Balor/Otami, although JBL's "local talent" is obviously a step down in competition
Title: Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
Post by: Jabroniville on January 15, 2015, 01:12:18 AM
Jab really is kinder with the ratings at the bottom than I am. When he thinks someone is lackluster, they seem to still find a way to get some dignifying points. When I do, not really so. Just look at our Sin Cara and Bo Dallas scores. I suspect it would be the same story with Heath.
That's funny though, because I thought I might have been to HARSH on these guys! Though some of them are pretty bad, I'm often hesitant to give someone SUPER-low ratings in Charisma, especially if I haven't seen much (or any) promo work, and just assume they're below-average and leave it at that.

I only remember seeing Slater job, though he seems pretty Jobbery. Probably a 5.5/5/4 guy or something.

Few wrestlers these days will have a Look below "5".
Title: Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
Post by: Jabroniville on June 23, 2015, 06:06:48 AM
Figured I would give assessments of each guy, especially having watched the show for a year and a half by this point. Though MY GOD I'm basically down to just reading recaps and seeing the parts I wanna see these days...

I'll do a handful of guys each time.

KOFI KINGSTON
Look: 5.5 (small-ish, but toned and athletic)
Skill: 6.5 (flashy and athletic, but slots his moves into the Generic WWE Match Template style way too much. I've yet to see his infamous botches)
Charisma: 4 (Generic Happy Smiling Babyface)
Overall: 16
Prospects: I think Kofi is doomed. Maybe another bullshit IC run or something, but he's clearly done being pushed, and nobody on top seems to like him. I haven't seen him cut a single promo, nor get a meaningful win. The New Day is terrible and doomed to failure, which in modern terms means they'll be Tag Champs for a month or two after their heel turn in a few weeks.
I AM NOSTRADAMUSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
Title: Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
Post by: Not BAMF on June 23, 2015, 07:36:58 AM
Heyyyy-y-y-y. We should totally do more of these now...

Kevin Owens
LOOK: 3 (The Authority gave Daniel Bryan shit for years, but I'm supposed to buy THIS Butterball as a serious professional athlete? At least Bryan had muscles and could get away with going shirtless)
SKILL: 9 (His moves are super crisp, look amazingly impactful, and he can pull out crazy shit for a guy of his size)
CHARISMA: 9 (Just a glorious heel. Everything about him screams "HATE ME, I'M AN ASSHOLE". He's hypocritical and cocky and violent)
TOTAL: 21 (Low-balled a bit by his Look score, but he should totally be a future main eventer for years to come)

Sami Zayn
LOOK: 5 (Tall and lanky, not particularly chiseled, but he's got a great smiley, underdog babyface face that really sells his character)
SKILL: 9.5 (He's incredible. His spots are brilliant, his selling his top-notch, and his matches tell great stories)
CHARISMA: 8 (The fans really buy into him, and how often does THAT happen for Smiling Happy Babyfaces since 1995? He can turn on the intensity when needed)
TOTAL: 22.5 (I am actually REALLY high on Zayn. His injury right now has upset me about as much as any in recent memory [only Bryan's in 2014 was worse] because I think the guy was going places)

Xavier Woods
LOOK: 5.5 (He's not particular powerful or threatening, but he has a pretty distinctive look. He's memorable, and that's the best that can be said for him)
CHARISMA: 8.5 (I WANT to go higher, because he absolutely slays me on a regular basis. He's got a ton of potential here)
SKILL: 5 (Just a guy)
TOTAL: 19 (The New Day has really turned on their talent, and I'd buy them all at any level right now as long as they're in concert. It says a lot that I thought Kofi "Midcarder 4 Life" Kingston should have won MITB this year)

Tyler Breeze
LOOK: 6 (I love the boots, and he has a face that could easily play Cocky Egotistical Heel or Plucky Underdog)
SKILL: 8 (He's pretty darn good in the ring. He could use a better finisher. Great seller, and getting better all-around all the time)
CHARISMA: 5.5 (He's playing his character well, and he has good physical chartisma in his actions and poses. But his talking is not memorable or relevant yet)
TOTAL: 19.5 (Tyler is ready to move up and challenge for the midcard titles. He's constantly being referenced as a proto-HBK)

Neville
LOOK: 4 (Jacked, but tiny. And he looks goofy)
SKILL: 9 (Gorgeous spots and moves. His main roster stuff is pretty disjointed and pointless, but his NXT work was more fluid and told better stories)
CHARISMA: 4 (He did all right in a more prominent speaking role in NXT, but on the main roster... has he said a damn word yet?)
TOTAL: 17 (I worry he is going to get Evan Bourne'd/Justin Gabnriel'ed away as "That guy with the great finisher and nothing else". He needs a storyline that lets him show off some other talents STAT)

Finn Balor
LOOK: 5.5/9 (5.5 w/o makeup as a taller guy with a nondescript look; 9 in his makeup where is positively enthralling)
SKILL: 8.5 (I want to see more of him, because I feel this could be higher. But I haven't seen as much of his stuff as I'd like)
CHARISMA: 6.5 (He has such great mannerisms and physical charisma, especially as The Demon. His speaking is kind of bland, but he's crazy over as it is, so he has time to work on it)
TOTAL: 20.5/24 (Possible main eventer of the future, though he isn't exactly YOUNG)

Hideo Itami
LOOK: 4 (Tiny Asian guy)
SKILL 9.5 (Very fluid in the ring with great-looking moves)
CHARISMA: 4.5 (Still learning the culture and language, but he has really good tenacity and intensity)
TOTAL: 18 (18 with great upward mobility based on his ever-expanding grasp of English. It feels like a low score for one of my favorites to watch in NXT. I've been down over his injury as well)
Title: Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
Post by: Not BAMF on June 23, 2015, 07:37:50 AM
Figured I would give assessments of each guy, especially having watched the show for a year and a half by this point. Though MY GOD I'm basically down to just reading recaps and seeing the parts I wanna see these days...

I'll do a handful of guys each time.

KOFI KINGSTON
Look: 5.5 (small-ish, but toned and athletic)
Skill: 6.5 (flashy and athletic, but slots his moves into the Generic WWE Match Template style way too much. I've yet to see his infamous botches)
Charisma: 4 (Generic Happy Smiling Babyface)
Overall: 16
Prospects: I think Kofi is doomed. Maybe another bullshit IC run or something, but he's clearly done being pushed, and nobody on top seems to like him. I haven't seen him cut a single promo, nor get a meaningful win. The New Day is terrible and doomed to failure, which in modern terms means they'll be Tag Champs for a month or two after their heel turn in a few weeks.
I AM NOSTRADAMUSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

Except for the previous sentence, where you are very clearly NOT.
Title: Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
Post by: Jabroniville on June 23, 2015, 08:05:11 AM
Well at the time they WERE terrible, and they are of course doomed to failure, having already lost to the PRIME TIME PLAYERS of all people, and then lost their match on RAW.

Granted, almost everyone in WWE these days is doomed to failure.

Title: Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
Post by: Necro on June 23, 2015, 12:49:19 PM
I've been re-reading the first page of this thread, and I'm so sad that they still fuck up the Wyatts, instead of making them an actual force and the next Undertaker with his Ministry.

That said, Neville and Sami are going to be mid-card 'at best'.
They don't have the look Vince likes, and at this point we know that Vince values 'that look' over everything else.
Title: Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
Post by: Not BAMF on June 23, 2015, 01:38:52 PM
I've been re-reading the first page of this thread, and I'm so sad that they still fuck up the Wyatts, instead of making them an actual force and the next Undertaker with his Ministry.

That said, Neville and Sami are going to be mid-card 'at best'.
They don't have the look Vince likes, and at this point we know that Vince values 'that look' over everything else.

I don't think Neville is going anywhere, honestly. Like I said... I think he'll be basically off TV full time by 'Mania next year.

I had a lot of hope in Zayn, but I think this injury will do him in. He's only 30, but they're going to start viewing him as damaged goods, a la Bryan, and not want to invest much in him. That said, if he can come back and get a good run of health (2-3 years without any real injuries), I think he'll get over enough to warrant a push. We'll see, though.
Title: Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
Post by: Speed of Zound on June 23, 2015, 01:42:28 PM
Sami has always wrestled a very hard style, which the WWE hates.
Title: Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
Post by: Imperial on March 28, 2016, 12:37:31 AM
Some late additions

Braun Strowman
Look : 9 (Obviously a monster and a built one. A cuddly bear face keeps him from a 10.)
Skill : 1 (Can he do anything except that awful bearhug?  Hell he cannot even sell without looking awkward.)
Charisma : 1 (I'm not even sure why he gets a one, honestly.)
Overall : 11 (Belongs working house shows in NXT. Not on the companies main programs.)

New Day
Look : 7 (Big E is pretty built. Xavier is rather good looking. Their unis are oddly colored but work for their gimmick.
Skill : 7.5 (These guys work well as a unit. They are better in the ring than as individuals.)
Charisma : 8.5 (A bit silly sometimes but all have shown mic skills, gotten a difficult gimmick over, and rode it bigtime. Without them, the tag division would have been trash.
Overall : 23 (Seems high at first, but they really are good.)

AJ Styles
Look : 7.5 (Smallish but handsome and built.)
Skill : 9 (One of the very best. A rival for Cesaro and Rollins here.)
Charisma : 5.5 (Dry and fairly non-descript on the mic. He does possess pretty nice "ring charisma" though.)
Overall : 22 (They should start using him as a short term top guy until the next generation of stars is hopefully grown.)
Title: Re: Let's assess all the modern wrestlers
Post by: pittfox on March 29, 2016, 05:30:31 PM
I'd give Strowman at least a 4 in charisma when he first showed up. Not so much now.
Title: Re: The Bret Hart Categories thread!
Post by: Wyntyr on September 03, 2016, 03:44:49 AM
Let's do some more of these

THE GREAT MUTA

Hart Categories, imo

Look: 8
Skill: 9
Charisma: 8 (maybe even 9 in Japan, closer to a 5 in the US)

Total 25. Fitting for one of the biggest stars in Jap wrestling history
Title: Re: The Bret Hart Categories thread!
Post by: Imperial on September 03, 2016, 06:32:50 AM
I'm sort of out of practice doing these so............

Lance Storm

Look : 5.5 (Rather cut and not bad looking, but fairly generic.)
Skill :  9 (Very fine technical worker.)
Charisma : 4.5 (Could be amusing at times, but not his strong point. A WCW only score would be higher.)

Overall : 19  (Quality worker in the midcard who could occasionally play with the big boys if given the perfect setting.)


Diamond Dallas Page

Look : 6  (Pretty colorful, though could be trashy at times.)
Skill :  7 (He tended to pre-plan out matches more than most. But Page could still go in the ring.)
Charisma : 9 (Strong mic worker with a solid dedication to supporting a character.) 

Overall : 22 (A late blooming legit star who was wasted in the WWE.)


Side Note : Rusev's charisma score has skyrocketed since Jab & I rated him here. Slater's has gone up clearly as well. Without the sheep mask and creepy factor, Rowan is nothing extra special even in look.
Title: Re: The Bret Hart Categories thread!
Post by: Crab Master on March 04, 2017, 10:11:51 PM
My appologies if this thread was meant to stay dead.


Stone Cold Steve Austin

Look: 7 (Looks like a truck driver who worked out...but still looked like he could fuck you up something fierce)

Skill: 8 (Pre-Broken neck) 6 (After Neck Injury)

Charisma: 10 (Prbably the only other person who could match him in this catagory is the Rock)
Title: Re: The Bret Hart Categories thread!
Post by: Not BAMF on June 07, 2017, 08:13:07 PM
Challenge:

The two easiest combinations to find, it seems to me, are Looks/Charisma and Skill/Charisma. You could find a lot of guys that excel in those areas while falling a bit short in the third.

But who do think is the best combination of Looks/Skill (at least a 9 in each) while maybe being short on Charisma?
Title: Re: The Bret Hart Categories thread!
Post by: Imperial on June 07, 2017, 10:34:28 PM
I don't know about getting to 9 in each, but Seth Rollins and Shelton Benjamin come to mind as guys that look good and wrestle well but are not known for being especially charismatic.

Though Seth is not actually bad in charisma, and Shelton though handsome and cut is no 9 in look.
Title: Re: The Bret Hart Categories thread!
Post by: Wyntyr on June 07, 2017, 11:23:24 PM
Yeah, I'd say Shelton Benjamin is probably the closest. Dolph was the first one who came to my mind, though he's definitely no 9 in skill
Title: Re: The Bret Hart Categories thread!
Post by: Not BAMF on June 08, 2017, 09:31:14 AM
I wouldn't put Shelton, Seth, or Dolph ANYWHERE NEAR a 9 in Look. And I'd give each of them higher Charisma than Look.
Title: Re: The Bret Hart Categories thread!
Post by: Imperial on June 08, 2017, 02:44:27 PM
Ahem........

Then you must really hate Shelton's look because he has the charisma of a piece of cardboard.

"Big Jay" voice out.  :P
Title: Re: The Bret Hart Categories thread!
Post by: Not BAMF on June 08, 2017, 03:47:02 PM
Well I don't know about HATE, but he's SUPER pedestrian looking. He's a 5. Maybe 6 once he went gold up top just for the effect.
Title: Re: The Bret Hart Categories thread!
Post by: Jabroniville on June 09, 2017, 03:55:24 PM
Challenge:

The two easiest combinations to find, it seems to me, are Looks/Charisma and Skill/Charisma. You could find a lot of guys that excel in those areas while falling a bit short in the third.

But who do think is the best combination of Looks/Skill (at least a 9 in each) while maybe being short on Charisma?
This is a tough one. Anyone who comes to mind is actually a bit lower in one or the other. Brock Lesnar is/was an obvious 10 in Look, and his Skill was good, but never a 9. His Charisma was his worst thing.

Benoit had the Skill, but was too small for a maximum Look.

Dolph & Seth are nowhere near "9" in Look OR Skill.

Sean O'Haire had the Look in spades, but his Skill was actually overrated- he's probably no better than a "7".

The problem is, a high Look means you usually have to be huge, which means you're not always the best worker, unless you use a completely different categorization and separate "Big Man" workers into their own thing.
Title: Re: The Bret Hart Categories thread!
Post by: Wyntyr on July 07, 2017, 05:47:15 PM
Nods to me

The Man Called Sting

Surfer

Look: 10. It seriously doesn't get better than this for a pro wrestler. Ridiculously handsome, muscled to the gills without losing mobility, the face paint and brightly colored tights, and a hairstyle that his young fans could easily copy? If anyone could get a Look over 10, Sting would be in that minority

Skill: 7. Arguably a 6 before he added a retinue of suplexes (suplays, maybe? Ask Gordon Solie) after teaming with/against the Steiners for years

Charisma: 10. Men wanted to be him and their wives wanted to fuck him. And he had a fucking stranglehold on the key pro-graps merchandising demo: kids

Total: 27. About as good as we've ever seen


Crow

Look: 10. Despite his superhuman physical attributes declining due to the ravages of age, the new makeup/tights/baseball bat/duster etc more than made up for it

Skill: 6. Again, ravages of age and adapting his style to it. I wouldn't argue if someone said 7, though. Not everybody can adapt like Muta

Charisma: 8. The ever-present tradeoff in pro wrestling: the inverse relationship of adult preference and kid preference. He gained a shit ton of adult male fans during this era, but losttthe kids. Or the other way of looking at it is that his kid fans grew with him, but he lost the appeal to gain the new generation of younger fans

Total: 24. Still easily top tier. And actually having a score even this low makes me think I'm misremembering something
Title: Re: The Bret Hart Categories thread!
Post by: Wyntyr on July 07, 2017, 05:52:34 PM
I think I might actually change Crow to a 9 in Charisma. Crowds were fucking DEAFENING every time he showed up after his sabbatical
Title: Re: The Bret Hart Categories thread!
Post by: Sick Nick on September 28, 2017, 11:57:23 AM
Yeah, he was more popular than ever. The Apter mags used to blah on about Sting being more popular than Hogan but he never came close during the Surfer days. During the Monday Night War, though, he became SUPER popular.

One other thing is Sting became a LOT better at promos as he went on. He was never particularly weak at promos but he became pretty damn good in late-era WCW and at TNA, with the only drawback being that he used to say his opponent's name about six times during every sentence.

Sting was great during the Surfer era though ... consistently JCP/WCW's most over guy, apart from Flair and maybe Steamboat, an incredible athlete and just bursting with energy. You never got the sense he was going through the motions out there, he gave it his all every time, and while he was no technical wizard, he could have a decent match with anyone from Barbarian to Muta.
Title: Re: The Bret Hart Categories thread!
Post by: Jabroniville on September 29, 2017, 06:30:26 AM
Sting's only issue was a comparative lack of drawing power - reading the Observer reports from his WCW run in the late '80s, early '90s makes it clear he never moved the dials that much. That's part of what keeps him out of the Observer's Hall Of Fame.

Though he was REALLY popular in "Nitro" era WCW- not a lot of guys could have gotten over by not saying anything. It was only kind of a shame that once he started wrestling again... he'd start hooting and hollering and behaving exactly as he'd done before.
Title: Re: The Bret Hart Categories thread!
Post by: Wyntyr on September 29, 2017, 02:15:43 PM
Yeah, I admit I definitely undersold his Crow Charisma.

Do you guys agree with my Skill assesments or nah?
Title: Re: The Bret Hart Categories thread!
Post by: Sick Nick on October 09, 2017, 11:54:09 AM
Yeah, I admit I definitely undersold his Crow Charisma.

Do you guys agree with my Skill assesments or nah?

Pretty much. The Stinger was never a scientific maestro but he was a damn sight better than the Ultimate Warrior or even Lex Luger. He was one of those guys who didn't have a massive arsenal of trademark moves but would use his opponents' moves against them and he usually executed moves pretty well, at least in his Surfer days.

Sting's problem wasn't lack of moves or sloppy execution ... it was that, according to Samoa Joe, he'd sometimes be forgetful in the ring and had to be led.
Title: Re: The Bret Hart Categories thread!
Post by: Jabroniville on October 10, 2017, 01:36:50 AM
I'd say 8/7/8-9 is good for Sting. 23-24 overall, which is very good.