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General Forums => Debate => Topic started by: Propeus The Fallen on January 04, 2017, 03:52:03 PM

Title: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: Propeus The Fallen on January 04, 2017, 03:52:03 PM
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/trump-us-intelligence-julian-assange-russia-233175

Oh, and Trump is holding a press conference next week. I wonder if this will be brought up? :)

Also, is it a good idea to ignore and mock people who could make your life hell?
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: Panthergod on January 04, 2017, 04:04:38 PM
there is a civil war in the intelligence community. the globalist terrorist supporter factions are just as they did with Iraq, spreading blatant lies to cover their tracks as their treasonous crimes are being exposed and they are trying to  goad Russia into WWIII to deflect attention away from them being the state sponsors of al Qaeda aka ISIS.

Trump may be a corrupt race baiting windbag but hes literally preventing potential nuclear war. Putin may be a strongman, but compared to Obama and Killary, hes coming of as a mature statesman of FAR superior ethical capacity. that speaks volumes.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: XerxesTWD on January 04, 2017, 04:11:26 PM
Why don't you call him "Obummer" or "Barack HUSSEIN Obama" but you call her "Killary"?
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: Panthergod on January 04, 2017, 04:17:41 PM
Why don't you call him "Obummer" or "Barack HUSSEIN Obama" but you call her "Killary"?

Shes even more bloodthirsty than he is. Literally.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: XerxesTWD on January 04, 2017, 04:19:03 PM
Why don't you call him "Obummer" or "Barack HUSSEIN Obama" but you call her "Killary"?

Shes even more bloodthirsty than he is. Literally.
That's why you like the nickname? All right. We'll go back on topic, I've just been wondering.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: Thoreau on January 04, 2017, 04:24:27 PM
I agree with Panther God. Trump has upset the balance of power between the establishment and the establishment. They have lost some control and are worried they won't be able to bomb more people this year.
  It is unfortunate that the government has become so corrupt that Trump is acutally a good thing(as far as nuclear war is concerened)
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: Arcturian Mega-Goat on January 04, 2017, 04:33:20 PM
I agree with Panther God. Trump has upset the balance of power between the establishment and the establishment. They have lost some control and are worried they won't be able to bomb more people this year.
  It is unfortunate that the government has become so corrupt that Trump is acutally a good thing(as far as nuclear war is concerened)
He may be good for a few other things but yes, most of the good is definitely in-comparison land.
The world is not in good shape.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: NeoGreenLantern on January 04, 2017, 05:43:18 PM
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/trump-us-intelligence-julian-assange-russia-233175

Oh, and Trump is holding a press conference next week. I wonder if this will be brought up? :)

Also, is it a good idea to ignore and mock people who could make your life hell?

Why is everyone shocked Trump is taking this stance? If its not true Russia is behind the hacks then he isn't involved so he's going to take this stance. If it is true and he wasn't involved he probably wants to think he won on his own merit so he's going to take this stance. If it is true and he was personally part of it then he's going to take this stance.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: Propeus The Fallen on January 06, 2017, 01:16:23 AM
So I guess seeing his tax returns won't be happening like he promised... :)
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: therock on January 06, 2017, 02:47:56 AM
thought he was coming out with his statment this friday now

first he said it was tuesday or Wensdays


http://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/trump-us-intelligence-julian-assange-russia-233175

Oh, and Trump is holding a press conference next week. I wonder if this will be brought up? :)

Also, is it a good idea to ignore and mock people who could make your life hell?

Why is everyone shocked Trump is taking this stance? If its not true Russia is behind the hacks then he isn't involved so he's going to take this stance. If it is true and he wasn't involved he probably wants to think he won on his own merit so he's going to take this stance. If it is true and he was personally part of it then he's going to take this stance.

think what shocks people is how much he doubling and triple down

Now it is possible all these angencies full of shit. But if there not, then he saw the intelegence. Intelgence that going to come out EVENTULLY.

The SMART PLAY. Is to say, if The Russians did it..it wrong.  But the lack of security, on the DNC allowed it.  That why as my adminstration I am going to make us more secure and prevent them from doing this again and show it will not be tollerated. Also will be transpartent so they wont have dirt to use against me unlike the CROOKED DNC

The fact that they may of help him and went at them ANYWAY..might of gain him some more points. It seem like such a simple play.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: AP on January 06, 2017, 03:47:16 AM
Apparently, the DNC is refusing to let FBI analyze the servers that were supposedly hacked.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: Arcturian Mega-Goat on January 06, 2017, 04:39:10 AM
Apparently, the DNC is refusing to let FBI analyze the servers that were supposedly hacked.
This is a surprise.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: Fifthchild on January 06, 2017, 10:27:54 AM
Apparently, the DNC is refusing to let FBI analyze the servers that were supposedly hacked.

This seems to be the final straw that those who want to deny Russian involvement are grabbing onto in the hopes of still maintaining some doubt about what happened. At any rate the FBI agreed with other agencies that the attack originated with Russian groups etc.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: NeoGreenLantern on January 06, 2017, 11:14:03 AM
At this point I feel like it doesn't matter. It seems like a waste of time and money. The DNC and government as a whole needs to work on upping their cyber security... Like stop using the password "password"

God I hate tech idiots.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: Propeus The Fallen on January 06, 2017, 12:05:47 PM
Yeah, you're one to talk "Kyle1no52" :)
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: MTL76 on January 06, 2017, 12:11:14 PM
I'm a little bit confused since AFAIK there is no proof that Russia "hacked" our elections.

Even if they did, or had spied on us, it demonstrated weakness to discuss it in such a public fashion. Any defects in security should be quietly shored up instead of creating a spectacle, or feigning outrage that a country we are not particularly close with spied on us.

And of course, there is the hypocrisy factor, as the US has no problem spying and meddling with anyone, including our own allies, as revealed by Edward Snowden and others.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: XerxesTWD on January 06, 2017, 12:41:20 PM
Definite hypocrisy, but still justified to be upset about it.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: therock on January 06, 2017, 12:42:44 PM
I'm a little bit confused since AFAIK there is no proof that Russia "hacked" our elections.

Even if they did, or had spied on us, it demonstrated weakness to discuss it in such a public fashion. Any defects in security should be quietly shored up instead of creating a spectacle, or feigning outrage that a country we are not particularly close with spied on us.

And of course, there is the hypocrisy factor, as the US has no problem spying and meddling with anyone, including our own allies, as revealed by Edward Snowden and others.

here the thing with that last argument. We also assasinated, and drone people. Where bad for doing so. Despite I would prefer not to be drone if I can help it.  I prefer our leader not to get assainated if we can help it. And would want people to do things to stop that.


Reason why they doing it publics because they want the counter strike to be public. As an example for those other people who try it, and to show they world they not doing it out of the blue if they get caught with the attack. Also maybe force our next president to do something about it. No it chasing a windmills, but worth a shot.  And speaking of snowden. Even SNOWDEN..says this fucked up and wikeleaks were wrong

In fact think they being pretty calm about this all things considered. If things were reverse...the republicans would be LOSING THIER SHIT. Think people on the right and some on the hate hillary...so...so...so SO much. That any enemy of her is thier friend.

But here the Beuty part that I always tell them. The Russian hacks could be seen as bad, and hillary could also be seen as corrupt cunt. You have the best of both worlds people. There not mutally excluse

monday will see. They already came out with some evidence, but the big evidence suspose to be release monday where the classify things. Maybe they shit the bed, maybe they wont

But makes me wonder what evidence would make people say "Yea Russians did", who narrative so tied into they didnt. Would we have to see a video of   Trump blowing puting While Putin smoking a cigar saying "I love it when a Plan comes together"
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: MTL76 on January 06, 2017, 12:44:02 PM
Definite hypocrisy, but still justified to be upset about it.

I agree, but think instead of having a public meltdown we should just deal with the problem to prevent it from happening again.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: NeoGreenLantern on January 06, 2017, 12:58:43 PM
Yeah, you're one to talk "Kyle1no52" :)

Want to here something funny? I actually still use the randomly generated password that came with my Wizard World boards account for this board. If anyone figures it out you get my account for as long as it takes for me to get someone to recover it for me.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: LiquidSailor on January 06, 2017, 01:20:10 PM
ScaleraRulz99
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: NeoGreenLantern on January 06, 2017, 01:27:00 PM
I've been undone!
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: AP on January 06, 2017, 06:44:30 PM
I'm a little bit confused since AFAIK there is no proof that Russia "hacked" our elections.

Even if they did, or had spied on us, it demonstrated weakness to discuss it in such a public fashion. Any defects in security should be quietly shored up instead of creating a spectacle, or feigning outrage that a country we are not particularly close with spied on us.

It really does have a lot of the telltale signs of warmongering.  Throw out some flimsy evidence that a former enemy has being doing something wrong, then you have an excuse to blow shit up.  The same goes with the WMDs in Iraq.  Why didn't they keep this stuff a secret and investigate?  Because they want public approval of any future conflicts.  In Iraq's case, public approval plummeted pretty quickly.  In this case, it seems there are a lot more people who don't believe this BS anymore.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: Propeus The Fallen on January 07, 2017, 09:59:35 AM
Um, shouldn't there be more. I mean, I read news that Trump camp talked with Russia a lot. Shouldn't something come from that? That and his old campaign manager did work with Putin. I'm just saying there are a lot of proven connections.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: AP on January 07, 2017, 10:23:16 AM
The news also initially reported the Russians hacked voting machines.  Then they changed their tune about that and said they hacked ballots.  Then they changed again and said they leaked DNC information (even though Assange said he has an informant inside the DNC).  The media likes to get in on this hysteria.

If Trump took part in this, he needs to be in prison and we would need a new presidenr-elect.  The government doesn't seem too concerned with doing that.  It's just hot air.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: therock on January 07, 2017, 10:58:14 AM
The news also initially reported the Russians hacked voting machines.  Then they changed their tune about that and said they hacked ballots.  Then they changed again and said they leaked DNC information (even though Assange said he has an informant inside the DNC).  The media likes to get in on this hysteria.

If Trump took part in this, he needs to be in prison and we would need a new presidenr-elect.  The government doesn't seem too concerned with doing that.  It's just hot air.

Actually i recall them saying registration machines were hack not voting machines. They speculated on the voting machines.but registration was like no they did it. We caught them

Also to me the most damming evidence was a Russian new orgnazatin (who a propagans machine) reporting on something in wikileaks BEFORE wikileaks

Yes assange said rhat but also suggesting she murdered dnc guy, with no proof or if he was even an informent. To the point the guy family ask him to cut the shit

The government was concerned enough they use a private in case if nukeler war line ri communicate with russia to cut the shit

Also according to the muktiple agencies they found the link from russia to how wikileaks got the links
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: MTL76 on January 07, 2017, 01:16:11 PM
Um, shouldn't there be more. I mean, I read news that Trump camp talked with Russia a lot. Shouldn't something come from that? That and his old campaign manager did work with Putin. I'm just saying there are a lot of proven connections.

Kind of like how Ted Kennedy colluded with the Soviets to influence the Presidential elections?

http://www.forbes.com/2009/08/27/ted-kennedy-soviet-union-ronald-reagan-opinions-columnists-peter-robinson.html (http://www.forbes.com/2009/08/27/ted-kennedy-soviet-union-ronald-reagan-opinions-columnists-peter-robinson.html)
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: therock on January 07, 2017, 02:43:59 PM
Um, shouldn't there be more. I mean, I read news that Trump camp talked with Russia a lot. Shouldn't something come from that? That and his old campaign manager did work with Putin. I'm just saying there are a lot of proven connections.

Kind of like how Ted Kennedy colluded with the Soviets to influence the Presidential elections?

http://www.forbes.com/2009/08/27/ted-kennedy-soviet-union-ronald-reagan-opinions-columnists-peter-robinson.html (http://www.forbes.com/2009/08/27/ted-kennedy-soviet-union-ronald-reagan-opinions-columnists-peter-robinson.html)


See here the thing if that true..that would sitll be concerning despite me liking lot of the kenndys and not being cool with reagan

and if was revealed, namely at the time it would be NEWS worth talking about. It be worth looking into. And saying it bad wouldnt mean I WANT to start world War 3

Which what a lot of people seem to think if you imposing sancitons for this type of stuff. They paint it

As either you have to be a 100 percent cool with the Russians and hackings

or

Your a warhawk who wants to star World War 3

I am of the opinions theres a happy medium
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: MTL76 on January 07, 2017, 02:57:25 PM
Of course there is a happy medium. It's called realpolitik.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: Propeus The Fallen on January 07, 2017, 03:29:49 PM
Um, shouldn't there be more. I mean, I read news that Trump camp talked with Russia a lot. Shouldn't something come from that? That and his old campaign manager did work with Putin. I'm just saying there are a lot of proven connections.

Kind of like how Ted Kennedy colluded with the Soviets to influence the Presidential elections?

http://www.forbes.com/2009/08/27/ted-kennedy-soviet-union-ronald-reagan-opinions-columnists-peter-robinson.html (http://www.forbes.com/2009/08/27/ted-kennedy-soviet-union-ronald-reagan-opinions-columnists-peter-robinson.html)

I can believe that. The Kennedys suck. JFK was a horrible president and was a lying sack of garbage who had his dad use his wealth (including having the mafia) help win him an election. Also we almost got nuclear winner. Heck, before Kennedy tarnished his soul, Nixon, while a weird guy, was still pretty okay until after the election. The only one worth a damn was Robert.

Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: AP on January 07, 2017, 06:29:14 PM
Actually i recall them saying registration machines were hack not voting machines

So more inconsistencies, then.  They can't even get it straight what Russia did.

Quote
Also to me the most damming evidence was a Russian new orgnazatin (who a propagans machine) reporting on something in wikileaks BEFORE wikileaks

A lot of stuff like Hillary rigging the primaries or talking to Goldman Sachs were speculations long before wikileaks verified.  There was also video footage of Hillary's people giving journalists questions beforehand or debate officials handing shit to Hillary, which was again verified by wikileaks later.  Wikileaks was not the first to report most of their stuff.  They were just the ones who could verify it.

Quote
Yes assange said rhat but also suggesting she murdered dnc guy, with no proof or if he was even an informent. To the point the guy family ask him to cut the shit

So what?  That has nothing to do with Russia or his statements that he got info from within the DNC.

Quote
The government was concerned enough they use a private in case if nukeler war line ri communicate with russia to cut the shit

That's been the case since the Cold War.  It has nothing to do with what we're talking about.

Quote
Also according to the muktiple agencies they found the link from russia to how wikileaks got the links

That goes back to me not believing them.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: therock on January 07, 2017, 07:25:50 PM
When i said russia news reported it. Not talking about something vauge. But an actully peice of info that was later revealed in wikileaks. Not just specilatin but found in the emails

As for what assange suggesting hillary has assassins have to do with where assange got the leaks, it shows he willing to bull shit. So when he says russia didnt give him the leaks it might be bullshit. Least possible enough i wont discount 17 agencies on his word alone

Alao the saying they broke into registration databasr not an inconsistencies. Its an old story that didnt get much attention. Becausr of emails, bengazi and trumo grabbing pussy. It was pretty much confirm. And no really argues they didnt do that. Russia did a lot of things, and attempted a lot of attacks. Just some was twarted.  Remeber Young Turks back when they were still bashing hillary.  Now know some people dont trust the,. But the Young Turks was a source I rember a lot of you saying was a GREAT soruce back when they were bashing Hillary and going for Bernie more. Now there on the neo liberal list because there like "Maybe Hillary doesnt have a team of Assassins". And they werent the only ones who made that report

That communcation method has been there sense the cold wat but this the first time they use it for decades

Let me ask people somethin. Cia coming out with the evidence monday. What would they need to give to make you sau "yea russia probably did it"

Or the defintly did it

Honestly want to know
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: AP on January 08, 2017, 06:38:42 AM
When i said russia news reported it. Not talking about something vauge. But an actully peice of info that was later revealed in wikileaks. Not just specilatin but found in the emails

And I showed you instances of stuff that was reported on in the US before it was on wikileaks.

Quote
As for what assange suggesting hillary has assassins have to do with where assange got the leaks, it shows he willing to bull shit. So when he says russia didnt give him the leaks it might be bullshit. Least possible enough i wont discount 17 agencies on his word alone

He said he believes something might have happened but never said for certain.  Even if he did bullshit about something, the US government are far bigger bullshitters.

Quote
Cia coming out with the evidence monday. What would they need to give to make you sau "yea russia probably did it"

Or the defintly did it

Honestly want to know

Ever heard of the Gulf of Tonkin Incident?
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: AP on January 08, 2017, 06:47:20 AM
Also, the Dems are now blaming two year old TV shows for their loss now.  http://wearechange.org/u-s-continues-to-blame-alternative-media-for-interfering-in-election/ (http://wearechange.org/u-s-continues-to-blame-alternative-media-for-interfering-in-election/)

People wonder why so many aren't taking them seriously?  One of the reasons is that they have an ever-increasing list of people to blame for their loss.  Let's see who are all responsible for Hillary's loss so far:

Bernie Sanders
Jill Stein
Gary Johnson
Men
White People
White Men
White Women
POC/LGBTQ who don't back the Democrats
Young People
Old People
Poor People
Rich People
The Real Media
The Fake Media
FBI
Pepe the Frog
The Alt-Right
Russia
and now... Past TV shows that were not around during the election
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: LiquidSailor on January 08, 2017, 08:13:39 AM
Yea it really is unfortunate that the one good thing that could have came from their loss was realizing they needed a man like Sanders, and instead they blame everyone but Hillary, who was the problem the entire time.

The dems learned nothing.  And history will repeat again in 2020 if they pull this shit again.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: NeoGreenLantern on January 08, 2017, 01:06:52 PM
The way I see it if they want to keep pushing this then they have to go down the road of the legalities of how they screwed Bernie Sanders.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: Arcturian Mega-Goat on January 08, 2017, 01:10:10 PM
The way I see it if they want to keep pushing this then they have to go down the road of the legalities of how they screwed Bernie Sanders.
Right.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: therock on January 08, 2017, 01:32:50 PM
When i said russia news reported it. Not talking about something vauge. But an actully peice of info that was later revealed in wikileaks. Not just specilatin but found in the emails

And I showed you instances of stuff that was reported on in the US before it was on wikileaks.

Quote
As for what assange suggesting hillary has assassins have to do with where assange got the leaks, it shows he willing to bull shit. So when he says russia didnt give him the leaks it might be bullshit. Least possible enough i wont discount 17 agencies on his word alone

He said he believes something might have happened but never said for certain.  Even if he did bullshit about something, the US government are far bigger bullshitters.

Quote
Cia coming out with the evidence monday. What would they need to give to make you sau "yea russia probably did it"

Or the defintly did it

Honestly want to know

Ever heard of the Gulf of Tonkin Incident?


He applied something was happen without proof. If said Ap might of molested Children, and I offering 10,000 for info..but Im not SAYING he did it..you would call bullshit.  He basicly just floated out there just to mess with someone he hate, the hell with how it affects the family. If Hillary Suggested Bernie was a Russia Spy...and I was like "But AP..she never SAID he was"...you would say Im full of shit. And what it has to do with his russia statment is it goes into his credbilltiy. Same reason Im sure you brough up they were wrong about WMD's in another topic.  That not them talking about Russia. But people brought it up because it question the credibilty off goverment agencies.

You point out incidents of speculation. I am talking about info that could only be getting from Wikileaks that was reported before Wikileaks

And again didnt answer the question. What evidence would you need to say "Yea they did it"

Even if you HATE hillary this is bad. Because this is about futurue elections as well. Every group have inside fighting and dealing. We all have Emails where we may not like people to see where where talking shit.  People can hate her, and still think this hacking an issue.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: MTL76 on January 08, 2017, 01:36:35 PM
Of course no one should be pleased about any foreign power, allied or not, influencing our elections. But so far there hasn't been credible proof (that I'm aware of), and this whole exercise seems like it's being conducted out of bitterness by the Democratic Party. Even if it did happen, it should be dealt with quietly, not in a public hysterical fashion. Trump will be our President and games like this weaken our country.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: Arcturian Mega-Goat on January 08, 2017, 02:00:39 PM
Obama interfering with the internal politics of the UK re Brexit was absolutely fine tho.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: NeoGreenLantern on January 08, 2017, 02:10:08 PM
Yeah they haven't released any hard evidence. Right now the most telling thing is Aussange tiptoeing around saying The leaks originated with Russia especially when he explains multiple times Obama tiptoed around saying Wikileaks got the info directly from Russia.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: therock on January 08, 2017, 02:14:33 PM
Of course no one should be pleased about any foreign power, allied or not, influencing our elections. But so far there hasn't been credible proof (that I'm aware of), and this whole exercise seems like it's being conducted out of bitterness by the Democratic Party. Even if it did happen, it should be dealt with quietly, not in a public hysterical fashion. Trump will be our President and games like this weaken our country.

Thing is you kind of HAVE to do publicy as an example to other countries. Since thiis was just a HUGE hack. It actully was a hack on multiple levels. Some stopped, some not.  And this help pressure on our future president to put safe guards in place. To solve the promblem you much first acknowledge the promblem exist.


If we DIDNT do anything countries might think this shit has no consquence. So why not do it again and again.

And they did release info.  Due to the lanague they use, where the hack orignated from, that they caught them MONTHS ago hacking in voter registration, the methods they used, The hackers themselves being,


It not NO evidence. They actully provide a good deal. And 17 different agnecie. Even the FBI that not exactly was team Hillary during this eletion.  That why I ask you the same quesiion I ask AP. They coming out with the report monday. What evidence would they have to give to say "Yea looks like they did it" because it seem to me for some reason people dont want this to be True.  Like they cant hold two things in there mind at the same time

Hillary SUCKS
And hacking by Russia also bad

This is not a logical pardox. Two things can exist at the same time. The fact Trump president..makes it more important. Because Our president reacting to one of the biggest Cyber attacks by going  "Yea WHATEVS"

Just imagine if this shit was revese. Imagine if Hillary said they should hack Trump. She won while losing by 3 million votes, and Russia hack RNC. And her reaction was like "Cool Story bro" and went "Russia Awesome. Putin is so cool how he stick it to Trump", then 17 agencies said they did it and she procreed to bad mouth them

The RNC would be FREAKING THE FUCK OUT!!. Hell Trump was calling for revolutions last time Obama won.  He be calling for a god damm Gihad right now. And fuck imagine was a republican president at the time..this deffintly would of come out more during the election. DNC response been pretty low key, some sanctions..and kicking out actuly spies


Obama interfering with the internal politics of the UK re Brexit was absolutely fine tho.

How did he hack the brexit polticians..or just publicay made statments. Was registration booth hacked

if he did hack them.  It would be a problem. Despite me thinking Brexit was bad. See two things being able to exist at the same time
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: Arcturian Mega-Goat on January 08, 2017, 02:20:01 PM


Obama interfering with the internal politics of the UK re Brexit was absolutely fine tho.

How did he hack the brexit polticians..or just publicay made statments. Was registration booth hacked

if he did hack them.  It would be a problem. Despite me thinking Brexit was bad. See two things being able to exist at the same time
Show me the evidence of these things being hacked please. Not just a 'russians announce something that was on wikileaks'. Correlation of course does not imply causation.

The actual 'report' mentions nothing about these hacks, just about Putin's 'why' with no evidence of what ,where , when or how. I was actually looking forward to see some evidence the CIA had but...

And as far as I'm aware, didn't Podestra fuck himself by falling for a phising scam?

Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: therock on January 08, 2017, 02:33:00 PM


Obama interfering with the internal politics of the UK re Brexit was absolutely fine tho.

How did he hack the brexit polticians..or just publicay made statments. Was registration booth hacked

if he did hack them.  It would be a problem. Despite me thinking Brexit was bad. See two things being able to exist at the same time
Show me the evidence of these things being hacked please. Not just a 'russians announce something that was on wikileaks'. Correlation of course does not imply causation.

The actual 'report' mentions nothing about these hacks, just about Putin's 'why' with no evidence of what ,where , when or how. I was actually looking forward to see some evidence the CIA had but...

And as far as I'm aware, didn't Podestra fuck himself by falling for a phising scam?


A phising Scam still a hack. Most hackers count on Human error.

Wel there coming up with some delcassified stuff monday. Again the russian news reporting on it improtant because it was info unique to wikleaks. Now that alone may not be a slam dunk.  But you cant really say its no evidence.

The evidence so far even in the classified

Where the hacks orginated
Malware found use in the hacks was also found in other russian operations
the fact the hackers were Russian
The fact we caught them already hacking in registration database
Russian lanague errors in the documents
The hackers being Russian who did this shit before
The methods
Wherere the date orginal and IP addresses
And URL shorting tool..that was use in othe russain attacks including attack on anti Russian Journalist


Again can undestnading thinking all this alone not a smoking gun. But it not no evidence either

Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: NeoGreenLantern on January 08, 2017, 02:33:50 PM
He did but that's still being "hacked". Is it the looses definition of the word? Yeah. But it still counts as a hack in basic cyber security vernacular. Honestly 99% of "hacking" is just preying on human stupidity because its easier to exploit the user than it is to exploit the software.

Well I guess its not even the looses definition of the word when cooking popcorn in a paper bag is considered a food hack.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: Arcturian Mega-Goat on January 08, 2017, 02:43:46 PM


Obama interfering with the internal politics of the UK re Brexit was absolutely fine tho.

How did he hack the brexit polticians..or just publicay made statments. Was registration booth hacked

if he did hack them.  It would be a problem. Despite me thinking Brexit was bad. See two things being able to exist at the same time
Show me the evidence of these things being hacked please. Not just a 'russians announce something that was on wikileaks'. Correlation of course does not imply causation.

The actual 'report' mentions nothing about these hacks, just about Putin's 'why' with no evidence of what ,where , when or how. I was actually looking forward to see some evidence the CIA had but...

And as far as I'm aware, didn't Podestra fuck himself by falling for a phising scam?


A phising Scam still a hack. Most hackers count on Human error.

Wel there coming up with some delcassified stuff monday. Again the russian news reporting on it improtant because it was info unique to wikleaks. Now that alone may not be a slam dunk.  But you cant really say its no evidence.

The evidence so far even in the classified

Where the hacks orginated
Malware found use in the hacks was also found in other russian operations
the fact the hackers were Russian
The fact we caught them already hacking in registration database
Russian lanague errors in the documents
The hackers being Russian who did this shit before
The methods
Wherere the date orginal and IP addresses
And URL shorting tool..that was use in othe russain attacks including attack on anti Russian Journalist


Again can undestnading thinking all this alone not a smoking gun. But it not no evidence either
Ok. I'll be watching everything monday for the declassified stuff.
Wikileaks have announced they are also having a presser regarding the same issue.

So far I'm leaning towards 'show me' with a dash of ' could be freelance hackers that at least have some connection to the geographical area of Russia but not necessariliy Kremlin operatives'.


Well I guess its not even the looses definition of the word when cooking popcorn in a paper bag is considered a food hack.
It is isn't it?
'king Planet.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: therock on January 08, 2017, 02:54:20 PM
I'm thinking if it not their operatives. Think it people they hired in the past and now hired again
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: Arcturian Mega-Goat on January 08, 2017, 02:58:26 PM
I'm thinking if it not their operatives. Think it people they hired in the past and now hired again
Possible.
Also possible is that they gave the information for cash once they got it to either Wikileaks or Wikileaks and the Kremlin. Or Russia and WL are partners.
I'll admit there's smoke, some interesting theatre we're living in. Not that this is anything new, just that we can start to see backstage.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: therock on January 08, 2017, 03:19:39 PM
Way I view Assange is he really hates Hillary.  He not a bad man..did some good things. But he has a perosnal beef with her. So does Putin

So enemy of my enemy sort of deal. They figure Hillary would win at a time and went at her, or wanted Trump more. Clear reason. His view on Nato..good or bad lines with Putin more. He also have people in his campagin that have connection to Russian finniaicla like his secretary of state

What worried me is not if Trump a secret Russia spy but his willinginless to completly disregard information he doesnt like. To the point he wants his OWN intelegence force. That how you get bad info. Because you make it clear that if you tell him shit he doesnt want to here, they will disgard it.  kind of what happen with Trump. There were actully people in the intelegence community saying this info is wrong.  They werent the ones pushing that narrative.  But we saw with Valarie Plam..if you did push the alternative one they would go after you. Blowing her cover as agent. Which sent a message to all other agent if you say anything counter to what Bush and Cheny says you best keep it to yourslef

now think it likely the CIA, being cagey becuase they dont want to reveal there sources and methods of how to get their info.  And not that they straight up want to start world war 3, or lying on the behest of a lame duck president. Namely when some of these groups that democrat heavy groups.

Now does that mean you take what they say as the absolute gospel.  No..but you dont completly discount it either. There a lot of meat of them bones

Nor do I think doing this neccesary mean they want to launch nukes at Russia. Because they didnt really push this during the election. FBI held back there investigation. They tried to communicate with Russia privately on multiple occasions to cut the shit. They apparently didnt cut said shit
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: NeoGreenLantern on January 08, 2017, 03:23:20 PM
Assange didn't get it directly from Russia. That's the one thing he made explicit. I don't think he would say that straight out if it wasn't true. He'd just keep saying he wants to protect his source and give zero info.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: therock on January 08, 2017, 03:37:53 PM
Assange didn't get it directly from Russia. That's the one thing he made explicit. I don't think he would say that straight out if it wasn't true. He'd just keep saying he wants to protect his source and give zero info.

Seem like parsing his words. not getting it DIRECTLY from Russia..doesnt mean it didnt come from Russia.  If he didnt think thing he would just say that. I mean I dont think he got it from @putin twitter account.


And i get wanting to protect your source. What I dont get is people not understanding the CIA wanting to do the same thing with their sources as well.

Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: NeoGreenLantern on January 08, 2017, 03:41:10 PM
But even then we don't know if he knows if it did or didn't come from Russia. His source may never have told him and he may never have asked.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: therock on January 08, 2017, 03:55:34 PM
But even then we don't know if he knows if it did or didn't come from Russia. His source may never have told him and he may never have asked.


More reason why him saying i wasnt wouldnt disregard 17 agencies saying the info came from russia as trump and some people like to think it does
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: AP on January 08, 2017, 06:34:11 PM
When i said russia news reported it. Not talking about something vauge. But an actully peice of info that was later revealed in wikileaks. Not just specilatin but found in the emails

And I showed you instances of stuff that was reported on in the US before it was on wikileaks.

Quote
As for what assange suggesting hillary has assassins have to do with where assange got the leaks, it shows he willing to bull shit. So when he says russia didnt give him the leaks it might be bullshit. Least possible enough i wont discount 17 agencies on his word alone

He said he believes something might have happened but never said for certain.  Even if he did bullshit about something, the US government are far bigger bullshitters.

Quote
Cia coming out with the evidence monday. What would they need to give to make you sau "yea russia probably did it"

Or the defintly did it

Honestly want to know

Ever heard of the Gulf of Tonkin Incident?


He applied something was happen without proof. If said Ap might of molested Children, and I offering 10,000 for info..but Im not SAYING he did it..you would call bullshit.  He basicly just floated out there just to mess with someone he hate, the hell with how it affects the family. If Hillary Suggested Bernie was a Russia Spy...and I was like "But AP..she never SAID he was"...you would say Im full of shit. And what it has to do with his russia statment is it goes into his credbilltiy. Same reason Im sure you brough up they were wrong about WMD's in another topic.  That not them talking about Russia. But people brought it up because it question the credibilty off goverment agencies.

You point out incidents of speculation. I am talking about info that could only be getting from Wikileaks that was reported before Wikileaks

And again didnt answer the question. What evidence would you need to say "Yea they did it"

Even if you HATE hillary this is bad. Because this is about futurue elections as well. Every group have inside fighting and dealing. We all have Emails where we may not like people to see where where talking shit.  People can hate her, and still think this hacking an issue.

I answeres your question with another question.  Are you aware of the Gulf on Tonkin Incident?  That tells you something about how much I believe intelligence agencies.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: therock on January 08, 2017, 08:50:59 PM
When i said russia news reported it. Not talking about something vauge. But an actully peice of info that was later revealed in wikileaks. Not just specilatin but found in the emails

And I showed you instances of stuff that was reported on in the US before it was on wikileaks.

Quote
As for what assange suggesting hillary has assassins have to do with where assange got the leaks, it shows he willing to bull shit. So when he says russia didnt give him the leaks it might be bullshit. Least possible enough i wont discount 17 agencies on his word alone

He said he believes something might have happened but never said for certain.  Even if he did bullshit about something, the US government are far bigger bullshitters.

Quote
Cia coming out with the evidence monday. What would they need to give to make you sau "yea russia probably did it"

Or the defintly did it

Honestly want to know

Ever heard of the Gulf of Tonkin Incident?


He applied something was happen without proof. If said Ap might of molested Children, and I offering 10,000 for info..but Im not SAYING he did it..you would call bullshit.  He basicly just floated out there just to mess with someone he hate, the hell with how it affects the family. If Hillary Suggested Bernie was a Russia Spy...and I was like "But AP..she never SAID he was"...you would say Im full of shit. And what it has to do with his russia statment is it goes into his credbilltiy. Same reason Im sure you brough up they were wrong about WMD's in another topic.  That not them talking about Russia. But people brought it up because it question the credibilty off goverment agencies.

You point out incidents of speculation. I am talking about info that could only be getting from Wikileaks that was reported before Wikileaks

And again didnt answer the question. What evidence would you need to say "Yea they did it"

Even if you HATE hillary this is bad. Because this is about futurue elections as well. Every group have inside fighting and dealing. We all have Emails where we may not like people to see where where talking shit.  People can hate her, and still think this hacking an issue.

I answeres your question with another question.  Are you aware of the Gulf on Tonkin Incident?  That tells you something about how much I believe intelligence agencies.

So your answer is basicly NO amount of evidence would do. Your set in that decesion

And to answer Your question. Know of that. 2 seperate incidents that got us into nam.  One un aug 2nd on Aug 4th. With the aug 4th one being left in question.  I am assuming because that inicdent might of been false back in nam, then its perfectly reasomble to discount ANYTHING they a goverment agency say despite the evidence, and no matter how many agnecies agree...now, before and foreverr.

my view is you should take it as 100 percent gospel what they say, but you cant 100 percent discount. Depsnd on the evidence. That Why I ask "what evidence would it take"

Which seems to be is  "No amount of evidence would do it". If I am wrong....thens say so..then maybe answer what type of evidemce would it take


my reason for my stance is the seem reason I am aware Tuskegee experement but not against Vaccines
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: Arcturian Mega-Goat on January 08, 2017, 09:06:24 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C1lq1NaVIAEzDNt.jpg:large)

https://twitter.com/JohnJHarwood/status/817180166942298113
Interesting indeed.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: AP on January 08, 2017, 11:40:47 PM
But even then we don't know if he knows if it did or didn't come from Russia. His source may never have told him and he may never have asked.

True but if it came from within the DNC, it is highly likely that person was simply sent the emails personally and they handed them over to wikileaks.  A lot of those emails were cc'd.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: NeoGreenLantern on January 08, 2017, 11:43:16 PM
I think if that was true he would have said he knew it wasn't from Russia. I think he would love to shut that line of thought down.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: AP on January 08, 2017, 11:44:01 PM
When i said russia news reported it. Not talking about something vauge. But an actully peice of info that was later revealed in wikileaks. Not just specilatin but found in the emails

And I showed you instances of stuff that was reported on in the US before it was on wikileaks.

Quote
As for what assange suggesting hillary has assassins have to do with where assange got the leaks, it shows he willing to bull shit. So when he says russia didnt give him the leaks it might be bullshit. Least possible enough i wont discount 17 agencies on his word alone

He said he believes something might have happened but never said for certain.  Even if he did bullshit about something, the US government are far bigger bullshitters.

Quote
Cia coming out with the evidence monday. What would they need to give to make you sau "yea russia probably did it"

Or the defintly did it

Honestly want to know

Ever heard of the Gulf of Tonkin Incident?


He applied something was happen without proof. If said Ap might of molested Children, and I offering 10,000 for info..but Im not SAYING he did it..you would call bullshit.  He basicly just floated out there just to mess with someone he hate, the hell with how it affects the family. If Hillary Suggested Bernie was a Russia Spy...and I was like "But AP..she never SAID he was"...you would say Im full of shit. And what it has to do with his russia statment is it goes into his credbilltiy. Same reason Im sure you brough up they were wrong about WMD's in another topic.  That not them talking about Russia. But people brought it up because it question the credibilty off goverment agencies.

You point out incidents of speculation. I am talking about info that could only be getting from Wikileaks that was reported before Wikileaks

And again didnt answer the question. What evidence would you need to say "Yea they did it"

Even if you HATE hillary this is bad. Because this is about futurue elections as well. Every group have inside fighting and dealing. We all have Emails where we may not like people to see where where talking shit.  People can hate her, and still think this hacking an issue.

I answeres your question with another question.  Are you aware of the Gulf on Tonkin Incident?  That tells you something about how much I believe intelligence agencies.

So your answer is basicly NO amount of evidence would do. Your set in that decesion

And to answer Your question. Know of that. 2 seperate incidents that got us into nam.  One un aug 2nd on Aug 4th. With the aug 4th one being left in question.  I am assuming because that inicdent might of been false back in nam, then its perfectly reasomble to discount ANYTHING they a goverment agency say despite the evidence, and no matter how many agnecies agree...now, before and foreverr.

my view is you should take it as 100 percent gospel what they say, but you cant 100 percent discount. Depsnd on the evidence. That Why I ask "what evidence would it take"

Which seems to be is  "No amount of evidence would do it". If I am wrong....thens say so..then maybe answer what type of evidemce would it take


my reason for my stance is the seem reason I am aware Tuskegee experement but not against Vaccines

You realize the Gulf of Tonkin Incident was faked right?  This isn't some Letters false flag shit.  It has been revealed that shit didn't happen.  My point is that there is a long history of this sort of shit that gets us involved in wars that we should have never been involved in.

I am not saying I will never been convinced but I am saying the government needs to bring some solid evidence to the table.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: AP on January 08, 2017, 11:44:50 PM
I think if that was true he would have said he knew it wasn't from Russia. I think he would love to shut that line of thought down.

He has said numerous times it wasn't from Russia.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: NeoGreenLantern on January 08, 2017, 11:47:30 PM
Watch the interview with Hannity. He purposely goes around saying it. He said his source wasn't from Russia. He pulls the same tactic he points out Obama is doing.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: therock on January 09, 2017, 12:34:40 AM
When i said russia news reported it. Not talking about something vauge. But an actully peice of info that was later revealed in wikileaks. Not just specilatin but found in the emails

And I showed you instances of stuff that was reported on in the US before it was on wikileaks.

Quote
As for what assange suggesting hillary has assassins have to do with where assange got the leaks, it shows he willing to bull shit. So when he says russia didnt give him the leaks it might be bullshit. Least possible enough i wont discount 17 agencies on his word alone

He said he believes something might have happened but never said for certain.  Even if he did bullshit about something, the US government are far bigger bullshitters.

Quote
Cia coming out with the evidence monday. What would they need to give to make you sau "yea russia probably did it"

Or the defintly did it

Honestly want to know

Ever heard of the Gulf of Tonkin Incident?


He applied something was happen without proof. If said Ap might of molested Children, and I offering 10,000 for info..but Im not SAYING he did it..you would call bullshit.  He basicly just floated out there just to mess with someone he hate, the hell with how it affects the family. If Hillary Suggested Bernie was a Russia Spy...and I was like "But AP..she never SAID he was"...you would say Im full of shit. And what it has to do with his russia statment is it goes into his credbilltiy. Same reason Im sure you brough up they were wrong about WMD's in another topic.  That not them talking about Russia. But people brought it up because it question the credibilty off goverment agencies.

You point out incidents of speculation. I am talking about info that could only be getting from Wikileaks that was reported before Wikileaks

And again didnt answer the question. What evidence would you need to say "Yea they did it"

Even if you HATE hillary this is bad. Because this is about futurue elections as well. Every group have inside fighting and dealing. We all have Emails where we may not like people to see where where talking shit.  People can hate her, and still think this hacking an issue.

I answeres your question with another question.  Are you aware of the Gulf on Tonkin Incident?  That tells you something about how much I believe intelligence agencies.

So your answer is basicly NO amount of evidence would do. Your set in that decesion

And to answer Your question. Know of that. 2 seperate incidents that got us into nam.  One un aug 2nd on Aug 4th. With the aug 4th one being left in question.  I am assuming because that inicdent might of been false back in nam, then its perfectly reasomble to discount ANYTHING they a goverment agency say despite the evidence, and no matter how many agnecies agree...now, before and foreverr.

my view is you should take it as 100 percent gospel what they say, but you cant 100 percent discount. Depsnd on the evidence. That Why I ask "what evidence would it take"

Which seems to be is  "No amount of evidence would do it". If I am wrong....thens say so..then maybe answer what type of evidemce would it take


my reason for my stance is the seem reason I am aware Tuskegee experement but not against Vaccines

You realize the Gulf of Tonkin Incident was faked right?  This isn't some Letters false flag shit.  It has been revealed that shit didn't happen.  My point is that there is a long history of this sort of shit that gets us involved in wars that we should have never been involved in.

I am not saying I will never been convinced but I am saying the government needs to bring some solid evidence to the table.

Which I ask before what evidence would you need early. Wasnt a gotcha question. You could of just said I need "Absolute 100 percent proof" would of took that.  But least we establish if it solid enough you beleave it

They have brought some pretty good evidence so far, and it 17 agencies.  So the statment there NO EVIDENCE simply not true

So far as the evidence  is
Where the hacks orginated
Malware found use in the hacks was also found in other russian operations
the fact the hackers were Russian
The fact we caught them already hacking in registration database
Russian lanague errors in the documents
The hackers being Russian who did this shit before
The methods
And URL shorting tool..that was use in othe russain attacks including attack on anti Russian Journalist


That why I bring up the tuskgree thing. We KNOW they experemtn on people. But that alone wont make me discount the whole medical community..when they say a Flu outbreak happening..you may want to get a shot.

Also dont see the huge motive for all these agnecies making this up for the simple purposes of shitting on the next president. Because he going to be president regardess. And the agnecies were least looking into this and concern back when they still thought trump couldn't win. If that was the goal they would of did this more during the election. While I totally see Trump and Assange motive of downplaying this. Namely when some of these agnecies have people who lean to the right. And they have evidence. This not some wild speculation. Now monday they going to releas  more stuff

now it very possible they may shit the bed
But it also possibe they may add even more evidence to the evidence pile. And I think people are son entrinch in not buying this story..it wont be any evidence that is enough. It seem unless there a video tapes of Putin and Trump talking about the plan to hack, while Trump points to the newspaper, and Assange in the backround people wont buy it. Hell even with it they may think it doctored
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: AP on January 09, 2017, 02:09:03 AM
Watch the interview with Hannity. He purposely goes around saying it. He said his source wasn't from Russia. He pulls the same tactic he points out Obama is doing.

I try to avoid Hannity, but I'll give it a watch when I have time.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: AP on January 09, 2017, 02:23:01 AM
Which I ask before what evidence would you need early. Wasnt a gotcha question. You could of just said I need "Absolute 100 percent proof" would of took that.  But least we establish if it solid enough you beleave it

They have brought some pretty good evidence so far, and it 17 agencies.  So the statment there NO EVIDENCE simply not true

So far as the evidence  is
Where the hacks orginated
Malware found use in the hacks was also found in other russian operations
the fact the hackers were Russian
The fact we caught them already hacking in registration database
Russian lanague errors in the documents
The hackers being Russian who did this shit before
The methods
And URL shorting tool..that was use in othe russain attacks including attack on anti Russian Journalist


That why I bring up the tuskgree thing. We KNOW they experemtn on people. But that alone wont make me discount the whole medical community..when they say a Flu outbreak happening..you may want to get a shot.

Also dont see the huge motive for all these agnecies making this up for the simple purposes of shitting on the next president. Because he going to be president regardess. And the agnecies were least looking into this and concern back when they still thought trump couldn't win. If that was the goal they would of did this more during the election. While I totally see Trump and Assange motive of downplaying this. Namely when some of these agnecies have people who lean to the right. And they have evidence. This not some wild speculation. Now monday they going to releas  more stuff

now it very possible they may shit the bed
But it also possibe they may add even more evidence to the evidence pile. And I think people are son entrinch in not buying this story..it wont be any evidence that is enough. It seem unless there a video tapes of Putin and Trump talking about the plan to hack, while Trump points to the newspaper, and Assange in the backround people wont buy it. Hell even with it they may think it doctored

You are not understanding what I'm getting at.  Considering the history of the US government, when it comes to getting proof a foreign power did something worthy of war, it is smart to at least be somewhat skeptical.  Hell, this wouldn't even be the first time the government drummed up fear mongering against Russia to justify some stupid military action.

It doesn't help that the DNC have been pointing fingers at EVERYONE since the election and never once admitted that they may have fucked up just a little bit.  The majority of Americans believe that screwed the pooch on some level and they have been children about the entire situation, so again, it shouldn't be that surprising when people roll their eyes when they scream "Russians did it!".

Also, what did Russia actually do?  There is never a consistent story, but here's where I stand with the different versions out there:

1) If they leaked info to Assange in some way, I don't give a shit, as I've stated many times.  Next time, they need to beef up their cyber security and maybe not be corrupt asshats and this sort of thing won't happen.  They only have themselves to blame if they allowed Russia to do this.

2) If they actually hacked ballots or registration or otherwise directly tampered with voting, then we need to take this to the House or the Supreme Court because Trump did not become president under legitimate means.

3) If Trump was directly involved, then he needs to be brought before a Senate hearing pronto and if found guilty, thrown in prison for treason.

When it comes to 2 and 3, there seems to be a lot of talk and no action.  If the government TRULY believed this, then the inauguration would be put on hold until they got to the bottom of this.  They don't really seem to want to do much other than get everyone to hate Russia.  And, again, if it's number 1, I wouldn't care too much anyway.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: NeoGreenLantern on January 09, 2017, 08:30:23 AM
Watch the interview with Hannity. He purposely goes around saying it. He said his source wasn't from Russia. He pulls the same tactic he points out Obama is doing.

I try to avoid Hannity, but I'll give it a watch when I have time.

Its in the first 10 minutes. Hannity even tries to get him to straight out says Russia didn't do the hacks and won't.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: therock on January 09, 2017, 11:34:14 AM
Which I ask before what evidence would you need early. Wasnt a gotcha question. You could of just said I need "Absolute 100 percent proof" would of took that.  But least we establish if it solid enough you beleave it

They have brought some pretty good evidence so far, and it 17 agencies.  So the statment there NO EVIDENCE simply not true

So far as the evidence  is
Where the hacks orginated
Malware found use in the hacks was also found in other russian operations
the fact the hackers were Russian
The fact we caught them already hacking in registration database
Russian lanague errors in the documents
The hackers being Russian who did this shit before
The methods
And URL shorting tool..that was use in othe russain attacks including attack on anti Russian Journalist


That why I bring up the tuskgree thing. We KNOW they experemtn on people. But that alone wont make me discount the whole medical community..when they say a Flu outbreak happening..you may want to get a shot.

Also dont see the huge motive for all these agnecies making this up for the simple purposes of shitting on the next president. Because he going to be president regardess. And the agnecies were least looking into this and concern back when they still thought trump couldn't win. If that was the goal they would of did this more during the election. While I totally see Trump and Assange motive of downplaying this. Namely when some of these agnecies have people who lean to the right. And they have evidence. This not some wild speculation. Now monday they going to releas  more stuff

now it very possible they may shit the bed
But it also possibe they may add even more evidence to the evidence pile. And I think people are son entrinch in not buying this story..it wont be any evidence that is enough. It seem unless there a video tapes of Putin and Trump talking about the plan to hack, while Trump points to the newspaper, and Assange in the backround people wont buy it. Hell even with it they may think it doctored

You are not understanding what I'm getting at.  Considering the history of the US government, when it comes to getting proof a foreign power did something worthy of war, it is smart to at least be somewhat skeptical.  Hell, this wouldn't even be the first time the government drummed up fear mongering against Russia to justify some stupid military action.

It doesn't help that the DNC have been pointing fingers at EVERYONE since the election and never once admitted that they may have fucked up just a little bit.  The majority of Americans believe that screwed the pooch on some level and they have been children about the entire situation, so again, it shouldn't be that surprising when people roll their eyes when they scream "Russians did it!".

Also, what did Russia actually do?  There is never a consistent story, but here's where I stand with the different versions out there:

1) If they leaked info to Assange in some way, I don't give a shit, as I've stated many times.  Next time, they need to beef up their cyber security and maybe not be corrupt asshats and this sort of thing won't happen.  They only have themselves to blame if they allowed Russia to do this.

2) If they actually hacked ballots or registration or otherwise directly tampered with voting, then we need to take this to the House or the Supreme Court because Trump did not become president under legitimate means.

3) If Trump was directly involved, then he needs to be brought before a Senate hearing pronto and if found guilty, thrown in prison for treason.

When it comes to 2 and 3, there seems to be a lot of talk and no action.  If the government TRULY believed this, then the inauguration would be put on hold until they got to the bottom of this.  They don't really seem to want to do much other than get everyone to hate Russia.  And, again, if it's number 1, I wouldn't care too much anyway.


When it comes to consitency, it simple they did multiple things. They tried multiple things. So when they said they hacked he DNC, and they use online trolls..and they tried to hack into the registration booths..they did ALL 3.  They attack with multiple attacks. It was a huge cyber attack. Some they manage to stop some they didnt.  Also there being skeptcal and there compeltly discpount evidence. Where people said there absolutly no eviendce..when kind of a decent amount

As for the Majorty. The Majorty of voters, voted for Hillary. She got around the same level of pouplar vote of Obama in 2012. Just got it in the wrong places. But that neither here or there. Let say she got no vote. Hacking insnt only crime if it done to people we like or oeople who are great at cyber security. In fact most hacking done to people who arent good at it
I mean I didnt like the movie the interview. But when Sony was Attack there was a strike back. Now we can say Sony suck and expose some shady shit. Shit which was reported on with thos leaks regardless. But we still struck publicly



1) Here the thing the DNC mighty simply not have the resource to fight an Entire country Cyber capabillity let alone any other country to attack.  next time it may not be the DNC. Next time it might a Jill Stein.  To fix the issue one first acknowledge and investigate that the issue exist. Next time it may be a goverment insitution because they tired. And it much be a price to pay for doing so. Not a full scale nuckler war, but an attack

2) Well they did hack the registration Database. People just manage to catach it early. There was a push for a recount which was stopped. Now dont think it would change the result but they were in there legal right to do so and was paying for it themselves. Go to the supreme court..what supreme court. The always tied one till Trump put one of his guys. The same one during Gore and Bush. And agian this is not about not having trump as president..its a basic secuirt matter

3) Dont know if they were directly involver. Dont think Trump was.  But his people do have connection to Russia where in in Putin best interested to have him in. Not that Trump work directly. But if a dude owes you a ton of money, and you have his people owe you money, then you want that guy charge. Because you owe him, and he might do favors for you. Look the other way when you do something


Thing about 2 and 3 relaisticly they only have till trump is president to do anything. He can fire people and reverse any sanctions.  He also already said he will have his own private intelegence.  So the best they can do is present enough evidence publicly that will force him to take this stuff seriously. Which granted maybe that pushing a boulder up the hill at this point, but there at leas trying
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: Arcturian Mega-Goat on January 09, 2017, 12:15:00 PM
Watch the interview with Hannity. He purposely goes around saying it. He said his source wasn't from Russia. He pulls the same tactic he points out Obama is doing.

I try to avoid Hannity, but I'll give it a watch when I have time.

Its in the first 10 minutes. Hannity even tries to get him to straight out says Russia didn't do the hacks and won't.

He didn't say that though did he. He said it wasn't the Russian government. He skirted the 'freelancer' issue.
I guess it depends what you mean by Russia. Using it as a singular entity is a bit...yeah
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: therock on January 09, 2017, 04:32:52 PM
here what he been saying
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-01-09/wikileaks-press-conference-post-mortem-cia-issued-press-release-not-intelligence-rep


 
“Your whole premise has been that you don’t know sources and therefore can’t endanger them. Now you say you don’t know your source.” Assange denies that this statement was made, and asserted that the source is not a state party. He clarifies that Wikileaks treats their source information with care and wants to keep that record. He says that depending on the case, they can give more or less information without compromising their safety.


“Is Wikileaks sure that the go-between didn’t get the information from the Russians or a private hacking group on order from the Russians?
” Assange stated that “we can’t play 20 questions with sources, for obvious reasons.”
 


On Trump some interesting things


“How do you feel about trump cabinet picks that called for the death penalty for Wikileaks whistleblowers?”
Assange states that many Republicans and Republican supporters were opportunists, but they were also mislead by the media and specifically the Obama administration that the Wikileaks releases led to the deaths of US soldiers. Assange states that this was proven to be false.



“What would you say to people who see Wikileaks’ recent activity as an open endorsement of trump?” Assange states that before the election, he released an editorial (presumably this one) on behalf of Wikileaks which answered some of these concerns. He admits they all assumed Hillary was going to win, and goes on to explain that the conflict was mainly against the elite power class. He also asserts that he has concerns about Trump’s administration and calls many of his cabinet choices “poor” with “some interesting ones”. Trump will “loosen up” DC, he says – both positively and negatively.
 

 
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: AP on January 09, 2017, 05:02:46 PM
When it comes to consitency, it simple they did multiple things. They tried multiple things. So when they said they hacked he DNC, and they use online trolls..and they tried to hack into the registration booths..they did ALL 3.  They attack with multiple attacks. It was a huge cyber attack. Some they manage to stop some they didnt.  Also there being skeptcal and there compeltly discpount evidence. Where people said there absolutly no eviendce..when kind of a decent amount

Some of that was speculation from Washington Post and other news outlets.  This is why I say there's inconsistency.

Quote
As for the Majorty. The Majorty of voters, voted for Hillary

That doesn't disprove what I said about most people believing she was terrible to one degree or another.  There are tons of people who voted for her because they hated her less than they hated Trump.  I personally know people who have nothing nice to say about her whatsoever and voted for her anyway just so they wouldn't get Trump.  Then you factor in people who didn't vote or voted third party and you get a lot of people who didn't trust the bitch.

Quote
I mean I didnt like the movie the interview. But when Sony was Attack there was a strike back. Now we can say Sony suck and expose some shady shit. Shit which was reported on with thos leaks regardless. But we still struck publicly

Did we?  I didn't see anything.  In fact, a lot of people used the opportunity to laugh at Sony or check in to see what is going on behind the scenes.

Quote
1) Here the thing the DNC mighty simply not have the resource to fight an Entire country Cyber capabillity let alone any other country to attack.  next time it may not be the DNC. Next time it might a Jill Stein.  To fix the issue one first acknowledge and investigate that the issue exist. Next time it may be a goverment insitution because they tired. And it much be a price to pay for doing so. Not a full scale nuckler war, but an attack

From all indications, they weren't very good at using computers.  And again, acted like assholes to begin

Quote
2) Well they did hack the registration Database. People just manage to catach it early. There was a push for a recount which was stopped. Now dont think it would change the result but they were in there legal right to do so and was paying for it themselves. Go to the supreme court..what supreme court. The always tied one till Trump put one of his guys. The same one during Gore and Bush. And agian this is not about not having trump as president..its a basic secuirt matter

They should be able to make the case if they found mass voter fraud.

Quote
3) Dont know if they were directly involver. Dont think Trump was.  But his people do have connection to Russia where in in Putin best interested to have him in. Not that Trump work directly. But if a dude owes you a ton of money, and you have his people owe you money, then you want that guy charge. Because you owe him, and he might do favors for you. Look the other way when you do something

Again, why aren't his people being investigated?  Arrests should be made.

These are things they should be doing before he becomes president since it would be easier to nail him that way.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: AP on January 09, 2017, 05:09:00 PM
Watch the interview with Hannity. He purposely goes around saying it. He said his source wasn't from Russia. He pulls the same tactic he points out Obama is doing.

I try to avoid Hannity, but I'll give it a watch when I have time.

Its in the first 10 minutes. Hannity even tries to get him to straight out says Russia didn't do the hacks and won't.

He didn't say that though did he. He said it wasn't the Russian government. He skirted the 'freelancer' issue.
I guess it depends what you mean by Russia. Using it as a singular entity is a bit...yeah

Yeah, he said there was "no state party".  He dances a bit, I admit.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: Arcturian Mega-Goat on January 09, 2017, 05:27:20 PM


1) Here the thing the DNC mighty simply not have the resource to fight an Entire country Cyber capabillity let alone any other country to attack.  next time it may not be the DNC. Next time it might a Jill Stein.  To fix the issue one first acknowledge and investigate that the issue exist. Next time it may be a goverment insitution because they tired. And it much be a price to pay for doing so. Not a full scale nuckler war, but an attack


Gotta say something here. I'm with you on investigations,( and if found guilty of cyber warfare ie government sponsored hackings)- I'm with you on possible sanctions, expose's to the world wide population and other legal and PR options.
But when you talk about an attack you're letting slip on all sanity. You want a localised war, a warette, because we can't have these darned Ruskies doing to us what we do to other countriers all the time.
And warettes have no chance at all of becoming world wide conflagrations in this climate at all. At all.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: therock on January 09, 2017, 07:29:06 PM


1) Here the thing the DNC mighty simply not have the resource to fight an Entire country Cyber capabillity let alone any other country to attack.  next time it may not be the DNC. Next time it might a Jill Stein.  To fix the issue one first acknowledge and investigate that the issue exist. Next time it may be a goverment insitution because they tired. And it much be a price to pay for doing so. Not a full scale nuckler war, but an attack


Gotta say something here. I'm with you on investigations,( and if found guilty of cyber warfare ie government sponsored hackings)- I'm with you on possible sanctions, expose's to the world wide population and other legal and PR options.
But when you talk about an attack you're letting slip on all sanity. You want a localised war, a warette, because we can't have these darned Ruskies doing to us what we do to other countriers all the time.
And warettes have no chance at all of becoming world wide conflagrations in this climate at all. At all.

Well it was an attack. Just a cyber one.  Accoring to them they were was an attempt to hack into a white house

Same with the Sony Hack. They hack a hollywood studio. So we hacked them back. it did not end with Armagadon. Unless I am currently dying of Radiaiton fall out poisoning..and what I am witnessing now  is "Jacbon Ladder" type scenario. That response wasnt controveral..because clearly people Hate Hillary more then they dislke James Franco. So thus this somehow became a partiasna issue

Yea we do that stuff to

But as i said we Also Drone attack people. Are you oke with  being Drone. Guessing no.  If we were drone would you want to goverment to go "Welps Fair is Fair. Not going to to do anything or call it out because that would be hypocrital".  I am guesisng you wouldnt

Same if someone hack us. Again same

Santicons worked in the passed. We dont want war, but here the hint Russia doesnt to.  But when they hack us we SHOULD repond. Doesnt mean you wan twar

is there some war hawks pushing this- Yea
is there some just dems wanting to make excuses- Yea

Can all that be true..and also be true that they hack us, and we should do something about it. YES..AND yes
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: AP on January 09, 2017, 08:23:15 PM
Same with the Sony Hack. They hack a hollywood studio. So we hacked them back.

No we didn't, especially since no one was sure where the hacks came from.

Quote
But as i said we Also Drone attack people. Are you oke with  being Drone. Guessing no.  If we were drone would you want to goverment to go "Welps Fair is Fair. Not going to to do anything or call it out because that would be hypocrital".  I am guesisng you wouldnt

You are missing the point of that argument.  We pick fights and should expect people to retaliate.  It's called blowback.

Quote
is there some war hawks pushing this- Yea
is there some just dems wanting to make excuses- Yea

As long as you admit there's that possibility.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: therock on January 09, 2017, 08:39:42 PM
Same with the Sony Hack. They hack a hollywood studio. So we hacked them back.

No we didn't, especially since no one was sure where the hacks came from.

Quote
But as i said we Also Drone attack people. Are you oke with  being Drone. Guessing no.  If we were drone would you want to goverment to go "Welps Fair is Fair. Not going to to do anything or call it out because that would be hypocrital".  I am guesisng you wouldnt

You are missing the point of that argument.  We pick fights and should expect people to retaliate.  It's called blowback.

Quote
is there some war hawks pushing this- Yea
is there some just dems wanting to make excuses- Yea

As long as you admit there's that possibility.


We hacked them back. There just HAPPEN to be a hack soon toward their country that hurt their finacies. We hacked them back. After we said we were going strike back..days later they got hit. For all your talk about goverment secret, do you really beleave that was a corincidence. And it wasnt this outcry "Oh we shouldnt be talking bad about north Korea". Most people were on board "fuck those mother fuckers"  "Lets do something about".  The country was generaly united. Oh a reason there not now..is so many people DESPISE hillary with a white hot passion. That there in genral an feeling "Fuck her..its good Russia did this". But here the thing Hillary, Russia still around.



Oh I fully understand we should expect blowback. Doest mean when it happen we should go "MEH whatevs" as a response. Most attacks on our country are blow Back. Most attack on our embaassies are blow Back. We still respond. Hell most teorrist just dont do shit out of the blue for no fucking reason.  But we dont just ignore and accept their attacks

Again never denied..that there werent some who doiung this because of hate on Russia, and DNC partly as an excuse. But it also true Russia could be hacking us. And here the kicker all 3 came be true AT THE SAME TIME. DNC can suck..and Russia hacking can also be bad At the same time.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: AP on January 09, 2017, 10:04:01 PM
Same with the Sony Hack. They hack a hollywood studio. So we hacked them back.

No we didn't, especially since no one was sure where the hacks came from.

Quote
But as i said we Also Drone attack people. Are you oke with  being Drone. Guessing no.  If we were drone would you want to goverment to go "Welps Fair is Fair. Not going to to do anything or call it out because that would be hypocrital".  I am guesisng you wouldnt

You are missing the point of that argument.  We pick fights and should expect people to retaliate.  It's called blowback.

Quote
is there some war hawks pushing this- Yea
is there some just dems wanting to make excuses- Yea

As long as you admit there's that possibility.


We hacked them back. There just HAPPEN to be a hack soon toward their country that hurt their finacies. We hacked them back. After we said we were going strike back..days later they got hit. For all your talk about goverment secret, do you really beleave that was a corincidence. And it wasnt this outcry "Oh we shouldnt be talking bad about north Korea". Most people were on board "fuck those mother fuckers"  "Lets do something about".  The country was generaly united. Oh a reason there not now..is so many people DESPISE hillary with a white hot passion. That there in genral an feeling "Fuck her..its good Russia did this". But here the thing Hillary, Russia still around.

You seem to think Russia was behind the Sony hack.  It wasn't.  North Korea might've been, but they also might've just read the hacks, saw The Interview, and decided to get pissy about it.  Another theory is that a disgruntled Sony employee did it.  No one ever fully found out who did it.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: therock on January 10, 2017, 06:35:34 PM
Same with the Sony Hack. They hack a hollywood studio. So we hacked them back.

No we didn't, especially since no one was sure where the hacks came from.

Quote
But as i said we Also Drone attack people. Are you oke with  being Drone. Guessing no.  If we were drone would you want to goverment to go "Welps Fair is Fair. Not going to to do anything or call it out because that would be hypocrital".  I am guesisng you wouldnt

You are missing the point of that argument.  We pick fights and should expect people to retaliate.  It's called blowback.

Quote
is there some war hawks pushing this- Yea
is there some just dems wanting to make excuses- Yea

As long as you admit there's that possibility.


We hacked them back. There just HAPPEN to be a hack soon toward their country that hurt their finacies. We hacked them back. After we said we were going strike back..days later they got hit. For all your talk about goverment secret, do you really beleave that was a corincidence. And it wasnt this outcry "Oh we shouldnt be talking bad about north Korea". Most people were on board "fuck those mother fuckers"  "Lets do something about".  The country was generaly united. Oh a reason there not now..is so many people DESPISE hillary with a white hot passion. That there in genral an feeling "Fuck her..its good Russia did this". But here the thing Hillary, Russia still around.

You seem to think Russia was behind the Sony hack.  It wasn't.  North Korea might've been, but they also might've just read the hacks, saw The Interview, and decided to get pissy about it.  Another theory is that a disgruntled Sony employee did it.  No one ever fully found out who did it.

Never Said Russia was behind it. Dont see where i even applies that iwas was. Fuck straight up said it was NK. i showing the differnce between how people reacted. With the sony thing people were pretty on board with strike back. Granted we didnt know a 100 percent with NK doing it but both sides were on board, republican and democrat on doing something about

Here we got a lot more evidence that a country did it. But because so much people have a hate boner for Hillary or the DNC. It was like "Oh this is war mongering" "Their lying" or "Even if they did hack who gives a shit"

Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: therock on January 10, 2017, 06:48:57 PM
by the way evne trump surrogate saying it was russia now

http://www.news.com.au/world/breaking-news/mccain-urges-trump-to-punish-russia/news-story/d24328dd99f78395ea83c9a8bb6f6459
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: therock on January 10, 2017, 08:20:28 PM
breaking news

http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/10/politics/donald-trump-intelligence-report-russia/index.html
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: therock on January 11, 2017, 01:26:49 PM
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-concedes-russia-hacking-putin-shouldnt/story?id=44710391


tough words, tough words
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: g-train on January 11, 2017, 03:42:24 PM
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-concedes-russia-hacking-putin-shouldnt/story?id=44710391


tough words, tough words

The man makes a good point.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: NeoGreenLantern on January 11, 2017, 03:47:03 PM
what point?
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: g-train on January 11, 2017, 04:56:34 PM
what point?

It's a good one.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: NeoGreenLantern on January 11, 2017, 05:05:28 PM
the best one?
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: therock on January 11, 2017, 05:19:02 PM
Imagine if it was China..or Jina

who did the hacking, he would be much more intense.

Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: NeoGreenLantern on January 11, 2017, 05:23:37 PM
My favorite part is him saying Russia "won't be doing it more, now." I don't know if he is saying what he means to say or saying exactly what he means.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: therock on January 11, 2017, 05:41:02 PM
My favorite part is him saying Russia "won't be doing it more, now." I don't know if he is saying what he means to say or saying exactly what he means.

He right. Putin treats his bitches well.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: Arcturian Mega-Goat on January 11, 2017, 06:24:52 PM
My favorite part is him saying Russia "won't be doing it more, now." I don't know if he is saying what he means to say or saying exactly what he means.

He right. Putin treats his bitches well.
How much salt do you have left?
I feel there's going to be a shortage soon. You may want to go into futures.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: NeoGreenLantern on January 11, 2017, 06:28:42 PM
Pull it back AMG. Wrong path to be going down in the debate forum.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: Arcturian Mega-Goat on January 11, 2017, 06:49:32 PM
Oh yeah, debate.
Apologies. Thought it was Gen. Got mixed up going back and forth.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: NeoGreenLantern on January 11, 2017, 06:51:23 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/rvKFwxD.gif)
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: therock on January 11, 2017, 07:05:51 PM
Anyone still on it wasnt russia train
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: AP on January 11, 2017, 08:32:01 PM
Anyone still on it wasnt russia train

There was never much of a "It wasn't Russia Train" as "The US should stop picking fights and the DNC should own up to their shit instead of acting like children" train, which I am still firmly on.

Although, keep in mind, these agencies are putting up disclaimers all over their reports pretty much saying "Yeah, we don't really stand by what we're reporting on here".  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmpG97mGZhY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmpG97mGZhY)
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: therock on January 11, 2017, 10:23:54 PM
Anyone still on it wasnt russia train

There was never much of a "It wasn't Russia Train" as "The US should stop picking fights and the DNC should own up to their shit instead of acting like children" train, which I am still firmly on.

Although, keep in mind, these agencies are putting up disclaimers all over their reports pretty much saying "Yeah, we don't really stand by what we're reporting on here".  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmpG97mGZhY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmpG97mGZhY)

Naa they were. Werent you calling this idea, of Russia hacking the dnc bullshit. That ut was just DNC just making excuses, then refrence The nam thing.

Also is it really picking a fight if a country hack your elections and you say "Hey cut that shit out"


Again let say the DNC sucks. Next time they will hack maybe a groupl you dont think sucks. It be best to avoid that. Maybe a country who has an oil deal, hacks a group that protesting a pipe line would you be cool with that.  Or some group protesting a genocide, get hack

Or let Say a Jill Stein runs...and she get high up there.  What if China against her  and hacks the green partyu. Becuase remeber it wasnt Hillary email that actully got hack.  Your going to be cool with that

Rules cant only apply to people we like
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: AP on January 11, 2017, 11:59:15 PM
Oh the DNC is still making lame excuses.  That is true regardless if Russia had anything to do with anything.  And the military infustrial complex is still itching for a fight regardless if Russia had anything yo do with anything.  My points still stand.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: therock on January 12, 2017, 12:08:01 AM
Oh the DNC is still making lame excuses.  That is true regardless if Russia had anything to do with anything.  And the military infustrial complex is still itching for a fight regardless if Russia had anything yo do with anything.  My points still stand.

But do you still not think russia did the hack
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: AP on January 12, 2017, 01:01:00 AM
I'm at 50% or so at the moment, which is at least 50% more than before.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: therock on January 12, 2017, 01:55:57 AM
I'm at 50% or so at the moment, which is at least 50% more than before.

Even thought the trump admistration themselves, and anyone who saw the info said "yea it was the Russian"

Get not beleaving the 17 Agencies..somewhat. But what in it for Trump to say it.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: AP on January 12, 2017, 03:17:21 AM
I haven't seen what the Trump people have said yet in regards to this

Keep in mind that, if we're talking about the Wikileaks stuff at least, the Trump admin had nothing to do with Wikileaks and many of the people in Trump's cabinet have called for Assange's death among other things, so they would have no idea.

If we are talking about Trump's people openly admitting that the Russians hacked voting machines and other things to get them in power, then obviously, they need to be brought to justice for a number of charges.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: Fifthchild on January 12, 2017, 04:46:29 AM
There was definitely a "It wasn't Russia Train" up until a couple of days ago.

I haven't seen what the Trump people have said yet in regards to this

They've been talking out of both sides of their mouth a bit. After the CIA briefing on Friday that Conway woman was asked if she/Trump believed it was Russia now and she said that it was definitely the case that "Russia, China and others" had hacked many parts of the government which seemed to appease the interviewer but on closer examination isn't really saying anything much.

After the briefing at his press conference Trump more or less conceded that it was Russia but blew it off at the same time with a bunch of weird reasoning:

""As far as hacking, I think it was Russia," Trump said in his first press conference in about six months. "But I think we also get hacked by other countries and other people."

Russia "shouldn't have done it; they won't be doing it," Trump added. "Russia will have far greater respect for us when I'm running the country.""

http://www.pcworld.com/article/3156770/security/trump-it-was-probably-russia-that-hacked-the-dnc-clinton-campaign.html

I suppose this would be seen as a bigger deal given all the shit-talking Trump's done over the past few weeks if it wasn't for PissGate sucking up all the oxygen in the room.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: AP on January 12, 2017, 05:22:21 AM
There was definitely a "It wasn't Russia Train" up until a couple of days ago.

I haven't seen what the Trump people have said yet in regards to this

They've been talking out of both sides of their mouth a bit. After the CIA briefing on Friday that Conway woman was asked if she/Trump believed it was Russia now and she said that it was definitely the case that "Russia, China and others" had hacked many parts of the government which seemed to appease the interviewer but on closer examination isn't really saying anything much.

After the briefing at his press conference Trump more or less conceded that it was Russia but blew it off at the same time with a bunch of weird reasoning:

""As far as hacking, I think it was Russia," Trump said in his first press conference in about six months. "But I think we also get hacked by other countries and other people."

Russia "shouldn't have done it; they won't be doing it," Trump added. "Russia will have far greater respect for us when I'm running the country.""

http://www.pcworld.com/article/3156770/security/trump-it-was-probably-russia-that-hacked-the-dnc-clinton-campaign.html

I suppose this would be seen as a bigger deal given all the shit-talking Trump's done over the past few weeks if it wasn't for PissGate sucking up all the oxygen in the room.

But all of this is speculation.  Trump and his cronies have nothign to do with Wikileaks so them saying "Yeah, I think so, sure, maybe" says nothing at all.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: Fifthchild on January 12, 2017, 07:56:30 AM
But all of this is speculation.  Trump and his cronies have nothign to do with Wikileaks so them saying "Yeah, I think so, sure, maybe" says nothing at all.

I havent followed all of the last couple of pages but i dont see what Wikileaks has to with the change in Trump's stance since he was actually briefed by the CIA.

Having said that i checked out Wikileaks Twitter feed and its pretty crazy how aligned with Trump's interests they seem to have become. The day before PissGate they were still leaking Clinton's email investigation details and since PissGate they've done nothing but push the message that the PissGate allegations are untrue. IIRC Assange gave some explanation last year as to why he felt Clinton was a more important target than Trump but at this point, especially given Hilary's career is over and Trump will be President in like a week it just looks ridiculous.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: Arcturian Mega-Goat on January 12, 2017, 08:25:41 AM
(https://youtu.be/pmpG97mGZhY)
I'm still on the 'it could be anyone including Russia, but so what anyway?' train.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: AP on January 12, 2017, 09:06:43 AM
But all of this is speculation.  Trump and his cronies have nothign to do with Wikileaks so them saying "Yeah, I think so, sure, maybe" says nothing at all.

I havent followed all of the last couple of pages but i dont see what Wikileaks has to with the change in Trump's stance since he was actually briefed by the CIA.

Having said that i checked out Wikileaks Twitter feed and its pretty crazy how aligned with Trump's interests they seem to have become. The day before PissGate they were still leaking Clinton's email investigation details and since PissGate they've done nothing but push the message that the PissGate allegations are untrue. IIRC Assange gave some explanation last year as to why he felt Clinton was a more important target than Trump but at this point, especially given Hilary's career is over and Trump will be President in like a week it just looks ridiculous.

They never "became aligned" with anyone.  They have always gone after corruption.  Certain people loved them so long as they didn't expose their pet politicians.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: Fifthchild on January 12, 2017, 09:31:35 AM
But all of this is speculation.  Trump and his cronies have nothign to do with Wikileaks so them saying "Yeah, I think so, sure, maybe" says nothing at all.

I havent followed all of the last couple of pages but i dont see what Wikileaks has to with the change in Trump's stance since he was actually briefed by the CIA.

Having said that i checked out Wikileaks Twitter feed and its pretty crazy how aligned with Trump's interests they seem to have become. The day before PissGate they were still leaking Clinton's email investigation details and since PissGate they've done nothing but push the message that the PissGate allegations are untrue. IIRC Assange gave some explanation last year as to why he felt Clinton was a more important target than Trump but at this point, especially given Hilary's career is over and Trump will be President in like a week it just looks ridiculous.

They never "became aligned" with anyone.  They have always gone after corruption.  Certain people loved them so long as they didn't expose their pet politicians.

I think its pretty clearly that they spend the majority of their time at this point amplifying messages that the Trump people are trying to make and the corruption they seem to be most interested in is related to Clinton/Democrats. Assange said as much before the election (IIRC saying that he felt Hilary was more dangerous than Trump). I'm not suggesting that the two groups are colluding but the scale of the discrepancy in terms of time devoted to positive/negative commentary about different sides is impossible to deny. And given that Trump is about to take over and their is hardly a shortage of corruption, conflicts of interest and scandals associated with him that line doesnt really fly.

I do regret bringing it up somewhat since i knew it would derail the conversation. And if you see it otherwise then i dont think we will ever agree on it. But yes - there was a "It wasn't Russia" Train and its only in the last couple of days that people have jumped onto the "OK it was Russia but so what?" train.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: XerxesTWD on January 12, 2017, 10:12:46 AM
So I guess seeing his tax returns won't be happening like he promised... :)
He's assured everybody only reporters want to see his tax returns. Nobody else in America wants to see them. Even though only 17% of America even voted for him.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: therock on March 01, 2017, 11:02:09 PM
https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-attorney-general-sessions-did-not-disclose-russia-022314929.html

oh oh
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: therock on March 01, 2017, 11:03:00 PM
again lets imagine if his was president hillary cabinet, she be in court the next day.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: soleran on March 02, 2017, 06:25:38 AM
again lets imagine if his was president hillary cabinet, she be in court the next day.

If the best offense is to pretend what might have happened to someone else then you really have nothing to stand on, that goes for both repubs and democrats that use such childish nonsense to defend positions.

Sessions might be in trouble the only saving grace I read in that article was:

"Sessions had more than 25 conversations with foreign ambassadors last year in his role as a senior member of the Senate Armed Services Committee, and had two separate interactions with the Russian ambassador, Sergey Kislyak, the department said."

and

"He was asked during the hearing about communications between Russia and the Trump campaign - not about meetings he took as a senator and a member of the Armed Services Committee,"

Guess we'll have to see where this goes.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: therock on March 02, 2017, 09:35:06 AM
Only issue is he was also ask about himself sepertly think. Played the clip on the news, try to find it
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: therock on March 02, 2017, 09:39:24 AM
Also its it important to mention what might of happen to someone else to keep things fair and in perspective. And to avoid hypocrisy. We cant have different rules for different people. This admistratrions been graded on to big of a curve
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: therock on March 02, 2017, 01:07:58 PM
ahhh here it is

http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/3/1/14786100/jeff-sessions-russia-trump

“I’m not aware of any of those activities,” he responded. He added: “I have been called a surrogate at a time or two in that campaign and I did not have communications with the Russians.”


Now to fair he saying he meant in a CAMPAIGN campacity

Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: Snake-eyes on March 02, 2017, 08:00:05 PM
again lets imagine if his was president hillary cabinet, she be in court the next day.

In what world do you live in?
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: therock on March 02, 2017, 08:21:56 PM
again lets imagine if his was president hillary cabinet, she be in court the next day.

In what world do you live in?

This world

(https://still4hill.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/benghazi-cmmittee-chart.png)

(http://cdn.thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/21134234/investigations-03-816x438.jpg)

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/42/bb/bb/42bbbb5f98aa6a163b5ff149ea440e1c.jpg)



Either way Session recuse himself. They may have to end up doing a speacil prosecuter. The interesting thing is normaly Sessions would pick the speacial prosecuter. But he probally cant now. Could if he did it at a start which he SHOULD have done

But turn out if he doesnt an obama appointment would pick it. Since Trump hasnt gotten around to staffing a lot of people. Also if Sessions would of said off the bat. "Yea I met them but it fit with my normal duties". We might not be having this conversation So a little message to session ans the trump admistration if they looking for blame


(https://68.media.tumblr.com/4534a5520078177fb87fe6db7fa9a07b/tumblr_og1ir0eQws1ta5iimo1_500.gif)



Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: Snake-eyes on March 02, 2017, 08:35:37 PM
Which one of those ended with Hillary in court being prosecuted?
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: XerxesTWD on March 03, 2017, 12:56:27 PM
Which one of those ended with Hillary in court being prosecuted?
You know that's an absolutely ridiculous question to ask.

"They had 30 investigations for____! They won't even have one for this."
"Yeah, but which investigation ended in a conviction?!"

Seriously. Do you read your posts and the context of what YOU are saying before making them?
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: Snake-eyes on March 03, 2017, 01:20:40 PM
Which one of those ended with Hillary in court being prosecuted?
You know that's an absolutely ridiculous question to ask.

"They had 30 investigations for____! They won't even have one for this."
"Yeah, but which investigation ended in a conviction?!"

Seriously. Do you read your posts and the context of what YOU are saying before making them?


Given that he's using those as proof that Hillary would have been in court. How exactly was my question ridiculous?

Edit: I'm assuming that you're aware that court and investigations are two separate things.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: therock on March 03, 2017, 02:09:27 PM
hearings happen in court. Hench the name Court hearings

I never said prosecute. See both of us can play semantics games. Hillary had multiple invesitations on here, and had to go through hearings. I need to start seeing some of trump guys in hearings as well.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: therock on March 03, 2017, 02:16:45 PM
also hearings have a lot of the same weight of a trial. The fact that they were trying to get her for perjury for stuff said in the hearing.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: therock on March 03, 2017, 02:25:24 PM
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/jared-kushner-donald-trump-russia-ambassador-sergey-kislyak-meeting-michael-flynn-white-house-jeff-a7609166.html

more smoke to this fire

if session has to be let go this would be the 3rd guy let go for Russian connection. Think he probally will. You only risk perjury if it something worth risking perjury for.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: Snake-eyes on March 03, 2017, 02:48:49 PM
What were the names of the Judge, prosecutor and defense attorneys?
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: AP on March 03, 2017, 05:46:46 PM
https://twitter.com/TheDemocrats/status/184658179349692416 (https://twitter.com/TheDemocrats/status/184658179349692416)

Remember when Dems use to mock people who were paranoid about Russia?  The two teams like to take turns, really.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: therock on March 03, 2017, 07:13:54 PM
https://twitter.com/TheDemocrats/status/184658179349692416 (https://twitter.com/TheDemocrats/status/184658179349692416)

Remember when Dems use to mock people who were paranoid about Russia?  The two teams like to take turns, really.

Well we have evidence now

To me it simple

Purin wanted trump in hope he lift sanction that cost half a trillin. Tilson given a job who also profit from russia oil deals. So was trump old campaign advisoe. During the the time trump guys seem to be in contact

Not exaclty a tom Clancy novel here

It not some huge plot to take down America. It just trump probably got buisness ties
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: g-train on March 03, 2017, 09:04:55 PM
https://twitter.com/TheDemocrats/status/184658179349692416 (https://twitter.com/TheDemocrats/status/184658179349692416)

Remember when Dems use to mock people who were paranoid about Russia?  The two teams like to take turns, really.

Well we have evidence now

To me it simple

Purin wanted trump in hope he lift sanction that cost half a trillin. Tilson given a job who also profit from russia oil deals. So was trump old campaign advisoe. During the the time trump guys seem to be in contact

Not exaclty a tom Clancy novel here

It not some huge plot to take down America. It just trump probably got buisness ties

At the same time Trump is getting the UN to pump up their military again.  And the UN's primary purpose was a defense against Russia wasn't it?
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: therock on March 03, 2017, 09:54:16 PM
https://twitter.com/TheDemocrats/status/184658179349692416 (https://twitter.com/TheDemocrats/status/184658179349692416)

Remember when Dems use to mock people who were paranoid about Russia?  The two teams like to take turns, really.

Well we have evidence now

To me it simple

Purin wanted trump in hope he lift sanction that cost half a trillin. Tilson given a job who also profit from russia oil deals. So was trump old campaign advisoe. During the the time trump guys seem to be in contact

Not exaclty a tom Clancy novel here

It not some huge plot to take down America. It just trump probably got buisness ties

At the same time Trump is getting the UN to pump up their military again.  And the UN's primary purpose was a defense against Russia wasn't it?

He also want to get out of nato. When it comes to other countries he different. Because with other countries he pretty hawkish. BOMB THE SHIT out of them he would say. But Russia violates treaties and he all like "we all make mistakes"

Again doesnt mean he wants usa to become USSR jr..but more of you scratch my back, Ill scratch yours. Now this when be the first time someone in goverment power did this. But he probally not smart enough to do it in a wink wink..no what I mean legal way.

kind of like there been other wars for oil but most are smart enough not to say "Where going to take the oil"

Just we torture and kill people but most are smart enough to say thats PART of a plan like a fucking maniac

my guess is he fucked up and did it in a way that going to get him in trouble. i mean i wouldnt be shocked. He did openly tell them to hack Hillary. So it wouldn shock me in some private meeting his people said that Russia. probally is that change thing illegal. Because before you can say that a slip of a tongue trash talking. But if it in private its change the legality. Which why you have the in fighting, people Jump ship and people needing to lie.




Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: AP on March 03, 2017, 11:10:11 PM
https://twitter.com/TheDemocrats/status/184658179349692416 (https://twitter.com/TheDemocrats/status/184658179349692416)

Remember when Dems use to mock people who were paranoid about Russia?  The two teams like to take turns, really.

Well we have evidence now

To me it simple

Purin wanted trump in hope he lift sanction that cost half a trillin. Tilson given a job who also profit from russia oil deals. So was trump old campaign advisoe. During the the time trump guys seem to be in contact

Not exaclty a tom Clancy novel here

It not some huge plot to take down America. It just trump probably got business ties

Business ties, I could see.  Like you said, it's no Tom Clancy novel, but the Dems and the press need to stop pretending that it is.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: therock on March 04, 2017, 12:15:47 AM
https://twitter.com/TheDemocrats/status/184658179349692416 (https://twitter.com/TheDemocrats/status/184658179349692416)

Remember when Dems use to mock people who were paranoid about Russia?  The two teams like to take turns, really.

Well we have evidence now

To me it simple

Purin wanted trump in hope he lift sanction that cost half a trillin. Tilson given a job who also profit from russia oil deals. So was trump old campaign advisoe. During the the time trump guys seem to be in contact

Not exaclty a tom Clancy novel here

It not some huge plot to take down America. It just trump probably got business ties

Business ties, I could see.  Like you said, it's no Tom Clancy novel, but the Dems and the press need to stop pretending that it is.

Well it doesnt have to be to be a HUGE STORY. People say this doesnt matter, Hillary would of lost anyway.  But watergate was a break in. A break in that end of a day didnt affect the election. Remember nixon won in a LANDSLIDE

If Russia (a foreign nation) hack the dnc with most intelegence agnecies and private intelegence angies said they did thats a pretty good size story.  and the was a an I scratch your back you scratch mind (which up in the air) then thats a HUGE story. Because even if like Nixon trump woud of won anyway..its still a scandal

And it whatever deal effect foreign policuy..which is whatthe sanctions are then that an even BIGGER story

And its a big story news going crazy because we getting new info every day, because they keep getting caught in lies every day. if session go down and have to regisn..that be 3rd person who had to resign due to russian connection. Thats NEWS. you have dimplmants dieing, more people showing connections with that one diplmat, CIa maybe leaking shit,  people in the trump admistration leaking shit maybe. In fighting in the admistration, more conflicts of interest popping up

then it may affecting on policy with nato. it be weird if they DIDNT make this the no 1 story. Session our no 1 law man may of commited perjury. Tilson our secretary of state might be using said postion to make an oil deal..which may effect oil policy here

Note all this shit I mention does not mean me and you going to have to fight Russia on America soils while screaming "WOLVERINES FOREVER!!!"

no matter how this turns out that not happen. But shit..story worth putitng on a the front page. And could still be something one should be concern about.
Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: Propeus The Fallen on March 10, 2017, 08:22:02 PM
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/323477-top-trump-adviser-admits-to-contacting-dnc-hackers-report


Hell, who can remember every conversation we ever had? :)

Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: therock on March 10, 2017, 10:07:17 PM
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/323477-top-trump-adviser-admits-to-contacting-dnc-hackers-report


Hell, who can remember every conversation we ever had? :)

Fake news...what you WANT WORLD WAR 3!!!

that normaly the response right

Title: Re: US Intelligence vs Russia and whatever Assange is tweeting about.
Post by: therock on March 15, 2017, 11:58:31 AM
http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/14/politics/justice-yahoo-hack-russia/

attacking the election one thing but when you attack my account bigdickrocky69 then you gone to far