12 Things That Have Ruined Superman

[Razar]

http://io9.com/5980428/12-things-that-ruined-superman

[Wyntyr is gone, Spryng is here]

I only agree with 3, and 9 - 12. The rest are just dumb fanboy gripes.

[Ares]

I only agree with 3, and 9 - 12. The rest are just dumb fanboy gripes.

Agreed. Things like 5 and 8 didn't do the character any favors, but they didn't ruin him by any means. 6 was so inconsequential in the overall scheme of things that it doesn't really count, and I'd say #1, Superman flying, is one of the most iconic things about Superman. 

[Wyntyr is gone, Spryng is here]

Haha, BUT HE STOLE THAT FROM CAPTAIN MARVEL, ARES













CAPTAIN MARVEL

[Wyntyr is gone, Spryng is here]

CAPTAIN MARVEEEEEEEL

[NeoGreenLantern]

SHAZAM motherfucker.

[Propeus The Fallen]

Let's see what would I put.

Smallville not being used. Take Lois and Clark. Not too good a show after the first two seasons, but it did show that Superman marrying Lois could work and it lead to a great moment in the comic where Clark reveals his secret identity and marries Lois. Which helped make him more approachable since he was getting way too powerful. I think elements from Smallville (Which was highly rated and lasted ten years) could have been used. Heck, put in Chloey. She was a pretty fun character and could have been played with a bit. Ignore any Jeph Loeb ideas.

The supporting cast getting too big at times. I remember an article in the wizard mag where they counted about thirty-three supporting cast members (rival reporters, Bibbo, ect) and that takes away from Clark and his main supporting cast (parents, Daily Planet staff) that and most of them were not that interesting.

Seriously, stop trying to get rid of Superman's dad! I'll never get what the fasination is with creators wanting to do away or push aside. I know where it stems from, but I don't get it. You see in the most overrated comic movie EVER EVER!!! Superman: The Movie, Pa Kent died from a heart attack early in the movie. A few creators think "Wow, this would be great to use in the comics" BUT IT NEVER IS! EVER It takes away from Superman because in the comics, Superman is probably the most powerful being, but seeing him come to his father on advice or just  visiting his dad and helping around the farm are endearing and the backbone of the character. And I've mentioned Smallville, you know where it got to the point of no return for seasons...Killing Johnathan Kent instead of Lana Lang. He's had heart attacks, comas, and amensia and always come back because the fans hated him being gone.  And of course, in the new 52, both of Supes parents are dead. Geoff Johns, I don't know what you love more Richard Donner, Hal Jordan...and apparently Image 90 comics going by what the new universe is like.

Lex Luthor going more business man than mad scientist. I can get John Bryne's idea because big business was looked upon as evil in the 90's and being a BUSINESS man was evil. Just look at most movies during the time. But I think he went too far with it because...I just liked the Lex who would invent crazy crap to try and kill Superman. I'm just wishing more of a a mix had been used.

[Altoon]

I always liked Buisnessman Lex better it made more sense were he gets his money to invent crazy shit and why he never ends up in jail.

[Chapel]

Seriously, stop trying to get rid of Superman's dad! I'll never get what the fasination is with creators wanting to do away or push aside. I know where it stems from, but I don't get it. You see in the most overrated comic movie EVER EVER!!! Superman: The Movie, Pa Kent died from a heart attack early in the movie. A few creators think "Wow, this would be great to use in the comics" BUT IT NEVER IS! EVER It takes away from Superman because in the comics, Superman is probably the most powerful being, but seeing him come to his father on advice or just  visiting his dad and helping around the farm are endearing and the backbone of the character. And I've mentioned Smallville, you know where it got to the point of no return for seasons...Killing Johnathan Kent instead of Lana Lang. He's had heart attacks, comas, and amensia and always come back because the fans hated him being gone.  And of course, in the new 52, both of Supes parents are dead. Geoff Johns, I don't know what you love more Richard Donner, Hal Jordan...and apparently Image 90 comics going by what the new universe is like.

Quoted for fucking truth. My favorite memories from Superman comics growing up involve Pa Kent. Superman being scared after almost drowning in lava early in his career and expressing those feels to his dad, Superman bringing Batman home to meet his folks, hell just the concept of Superman occasionally needing to talk thing over with his dad to get his head straight is a great idea. 

[White Walker, Texas Ranger]

I agree.
I always liked to have Pa kent around to give him advise.
I hate that they seem to kill him every few years off.
I mean, it worked in the first movie, yes, but the comics are a different horse.

Also, to me, Lex made more sense as a ruthless, highly intelligent businessman who is also inventing crazy powerful stuff on the side, instead of just being a crazy madman/tinker that is highly intelligent. I always liked that Lex, despite his lack of powers, still was an adversary of Supes, solely due to his intelligence and remarkable business skills. Even if he lost, he never went to jail over it, because he thought of everything, coldly calculating a potential outcome and taking precautions.

[Wyntyr is gone, Spryng is here]

If I'm not mistaken his dad was already dead in precrisis comics and Crisis brought him back

But I LIKE the fact SUPERMAN one of the most POWERFUL PEOPLE IN EXISTENCE is a humble tit who goes home to mom and dad and has dinner with them on sundays and has talks about how he might crush suns but feels insecure about how he's been assigned to a new article he might not know everything about or how about this lady from Greece is gay after she had sex with him.

[Ares]

Agree with those about Superman's parents, and Lex's dual status as both a supergenius and an expert businessman. The latter is kind of a best of both worlds case where he could have all of the crazy superscience sent Superman's way, but be slick enough to make sure it could never be traced back to him. I know I'm always singing the praises of the Timm/Dini Batman/Superman animated series, but both of them were really well done examples of how to handle the characters, and Superman: TAS in particular handled both Clark's parents and Lex well in that regard. Lex being voiced by Clancy Brown didn't hurt anything either.

[Bueno Excellente]

I think making Supes a 100% goody two shoes should be on the list. A demigod with a grounded, rock-solid morality is an essential part of the mythos. But little things like censoring a cover showing him drinking a beer with his old man is beyond ridiculous.  It's like the old Comics Code from the 1950s still applies to the Super-books.

Another thing is too many Kryptonians.  He always starts out being the sole survivor of Krypton thus cementing his uniqueness in the universe.  Then next thing you know we have a Supergirl, a Superboy, a Superdog, a Superchimp, a shrunken city of Krypton survivors, Kryptonian villains from the Phantom Zone and so on.

[Ares]

Yeah, he's suppose to be a moral individual, supremely so, but he's also a guy who was raised on a farm, got into trouble, and lives in a big city. There shouldn't be anything wrong with him sharing a beer with his dad, occasionally losing his temper, etc. A good example was that crossover with Hitman, where Tommy cursed in front of Superman and started to apologize for it, only for Superman to go "Well, there aren't any children present, so you should talk as you see fit." Moral, but not self righteous, the way the Nu-52 Superman comes off sometimes.

As for the Kryptonians, I think there's a fine line you can walk with them. The Phantom Zone criminals are solid antagonists, Supergirl is alright, I'm okay with Krypto, I like Superboy when he's a clone and not just 'Superman when he was a boy'. Having 100,000 of them around can be a bit difficult tho, since that makes for a good threat but once you have 100,000 Kryptonians out there, it's clear most of them are either going to die or somehow get taken out of the equation in order to maintain the status-quo.

Still, we've got Daxamites out there, and they're so close to Kryptonian that they're identical save for a switched weakness. It's not an unmanageable situation. 

[Jabroniville]

I always liked the "Krypton exploded, killing Kal-El's parents and a few close relatives" joke.

[AP]

I always liked Buisnessman Lex better it made more sense were he gets his money to invent crazy shit and why he never ends up in jail.

[Panthergod]

Seriously, stop trying to get rid of Superman's dad! I'll never get what the fasination is with creators wanting to do away or push aside. I know where it stems from, but I don't get it. You see in the most overrated comic movie EVER EVER!!! Superman: The Movie, Pa Kent died from a heart attack early in the movie. A few creators think "Wow, this would be great to use in the comics" BUT IT NEVER IS! EVER It takes away from Superman because in the comics, Superman is probably the most powerful being, but seeing him come to his father on advice or just  visiting his dad and helping around the farm are endearing and the backbone of the character. And I've mentioned Smallville, you know where it got to the point of no return for seasons...Killing Johnathan Kent instead of Lana Lang. He's had heart attacks, comas, and amensia and always come back because the fans hated him being gone.  And of course, in the new 52, both of Supes parents are dead. Geoff Johns, I don't know what you love more Richard Donner, Hal Jordan...and apparently Image 90 comics going by what the new universe is like.

And maybe Jerry Siegel.


People who don't understand or particularly like the character love how Superman was perpetually infantilized by Byrne by having his parents--or at least and particularly Pa Kent-- remain alive. Even Spider-Man is more mature than a Superman who still has to figure out how to be a mature man in his 30's. Pa Kent is here to instill his values in Clark as a young man. Once he's done that he's fulfilled his purpose in the story. Further, he's FAR more powerful and poignant a fuigure in flashbacks.  An adult Clark who needs to go to Pa Kent for advice means that Pa didn't do his job raising him correctly--and Post Crisis, he was a shitty parent. Letting him cheat like the corrupt immature moral coward he was under Byrne. By the time he's well unto his career as Superman, he shouldn't need a child's guidance. Further, Pa's Death also serves to provide a personal direct touchstone to the sacredness of human life. He personally knows how it feels to lose a loved one.



3) is an inherent part of Superman, just as it is for Surfer, GL, Thor etc albeit to a lesser degree. Superman represents a vision of human potential, so his nebulous powerset is about how ultimately human potential is extremely variable. Nothing wrong with this aside for the potential for lazy resolutions. This is almost exclusively a complaint from ignorant people who simply don't know about or like the character being powerful via versatility.

[White Walker, Texas Ranger]

Jesus Christ are you talking some BS.

[Panthergod]

Jesus Christ are you talking some BS.

Yes, the point of the character is BS to people who don't respect or like the character, I already said that.

[White Walker, Texas Ranger]

Stop reflecting your own issues into Superman.
It's getting pathetic.

[Panthergod]

Stop reflecting your own issues into Superman.
It's getting pathetic.

Im reflecting Jerry Siegels issues unto Superman. You dont like or understand the character at his most authentic, which is why you pretend like the idea of portraying him like he should is in contention to people other than your ilk: ignorant irrational Marvel fanboys who want to turn him into Spider-Man.

[White Walker, Texas Ranger]

I swear, every time you open your mouth you reveal once again that you're a college student on the cusp of independence.
You're a fucking walking stereotype. That is the only reason why you could reject someone's interest in getting opinions and perspective from another person. In your mind it makes someone weak to do that, but that is because you're trying to stand on your own IRL right now and it shimmers through in your opinion, like it does with most of the things you're handling IRL right now.

Being in your 30s doesn't make you a wisdom god, it keeps you just another person. Being in your 30s doesn't give you all the answers in the world. You're an idiot if you think asking questions is opposite of maturity. In fact, your complete rejection of the idea that someone would need another person's wisdom and knowledge is speaking of immaturity.

His parents have twice his lifetime in experience, they have accumulated wisdom and knowledge that he is still missing (god, I can't believe you're such a stereotypical idiot that you would reject such notions just for your idea of what a "man" is supposed to be, which is as flawed as every crap you spew, in an attempt to seem adult). Moreover his parents have perspectives he is missing, simply due to the fact that, despite his being raised as human, he isn't, and he hasn't been for at least half of his age, after he realized his powers.

Seriously, shut up, Jelly, go back to college, and try to not sound like a fucking black male college student age 19, who's torn apart between the teachings of his parents, idiotic conspiracy theories that only work if you are closeminded to how the world works, bigotry and attempts to assert your "masculinity" which is so fucking sad that it needs a new entry in the merriam-webster directory.

[Ramz]

bid'niss be pickin up

[Wyntyr is gone, Spryng is here]

This is like reverse World War II.... TIMES 12

[Ramz]

As of now, I a-gree with Ivan Drago. But because I can absorb information from others and factor that information in as an unbiased spectator, I will wait for Jelly's rebuttal on the issue to make a full pledge of allegiance.

[Nox]

Like, you're talkin about Blivan right?

[Bueno Excellente]

That's some serious sonning right there.

[Razar]

I agree with Necro. The idea that you're too fucking old at 30+ & your parents are miserable failures because you wanna bounce problems or ideas off of your dad every now and then is downright lunacy of the highest moronic degree. And how is it "Spider-Man-ish" when Peter doesn't go around begging Aunt May(or JJJ, which could be the closest thing he's had to a dad for decades) for advice? If you actually read the fucking books Peter always tried to keep his problems away from May, not wanting to burden her with his shit(or at least that's how it used to be before Quesada killed the character with OMD).

[BigJayHam]

We just witnessed a lynching, guys. GUYS.

[Mightily Oats]

I swear, every time you open your mouth you reveal once again that you're a college student on the cusp of independence.
You're a fucking walking stereotype. That is the only reason why you could reject someone's interest in getting opinions and perspective from another person. In your mind it makes someone weak to do that, but that is because you're trying to stand on your own IRL right now and it shimmers through in your opinion, like it does with most of the things you're handling IRL right now.

Being in your 30s doesn't make you a wisdom god, it keeps you just another person. Being in your 30s doesn't give you all the answers in the world. You're an idiot if you think asking questions is opposite of maturity. In fact, your complete rejection of the idea that someone would need another person's wisdom and knowledge is speaking of immaturity.

His parents have twice his lifetime in experience, they have accumulated wisdom and knowledge that he is still missing (god, I can't believe you're such a stereotypical idiot that you would reject such notions just for your idea of what a "man" is supposed to be, which is as flawed as every crap you spew, in an attempt to seem adult). Moreover his parents have perspectives he is missing, simply due to the fact that, despite his being raised as human, he isn't, and he hasn't been for at least half of his age, after he realized his powers.

Seriously, shut up, Jelly, go back to college, and try to not sound like a fucking black male college student age 19, who's torn apart between the teachings of his parents, idiotic conspiracy theories that only work if you are closeminded to how the world works, bigotry and attempts to assert your "masculinity" which is so fucking sad that it needs a new entry in the merriam-webster directory.

My respect for Necro went up 9 notches.

Well done

[Mightily Oats]

To add to something:

That the Kents are good and honest and decent people and that this directly affected and inspired Superman to be that way himself is one of my favourite parts of the mythos.

There's a Martian Manhunter issue where J'Onn visits the Kents as a black farmhand and they accept him and protect him based on bis character and that turns out to be a defining moment in Clark's life.

[Wyntyr is gone, Spryng is here]

To add to something:

That the Kents are good and honest and decent people and that this directly affected and inspired Superman to be that way himself is one of my favourite parts of the mythos.

There's a Martian Manhunter issue where J'Onn visits the Kents as a black farmhand and they accept him and protect him based on bis character and that turns out to be a defining moment in Clark's life.

For want of a nail, the shoe was lost,
for want of a shoe, the horse was lost..

[Jabroniville]

I love how every time someone REALLY nails Jelly with something, he disappears and hides for weks so that he doesn't have to deal with it. Basically, the guy on this forum most-obsessed with "wut a man SHOULD be!" is the one who knows the least about being a man and owning up to shit. What a maroon.

[BigJayHam]

Like you when we bitch you out?

[Wyntyr is gone, Spryng is here]

I liked Jabroniville better when he was still Juggy #3

[Panthergod]

I love how every time someone REALLY nails Jelly with something, he disappears and hides for weks so that he doesn't have to deal with it. Basically, the guy on this forum most-obsessed with "wut a man SHOULD be!" is the one who knows the least about being a man and owning up to shit. What a maroon.

Ill get to this later.

My comp crashed so the various scans I have need to be saved.

Suffice it to say, that was one HILARIOUS meltdown, Nec.

[Panthergod]

Saved so I can edit in my responses later.

I swear, every time you open your mouth you reveal once again that you're a college student on the cusp of independence.
You're a fucking walking stereotype. That is the only reason why you could reject someone's interest in getting opinions and perspective from another person. In your mind it makes someone weak to do that, but that is because you're trying to stand on your own IRL right now and it shimmers through in your opinion, like it does with most of the things you're handling IRL right now.

Being in your 30s doesn't make you a wisdom god, it keeps you just another person. Being in your 30s doesn't give you all the answers in the world. You're an idiot if you think asking questions is opposite of maturity. In fact, your complete rejection of the idea that someone would need another person's wisdom and knowledge is speaking of immaturity.

His parents have twice his lifetime in experience, they have accumulated wisdom and knowledge that he is still missing (god, I can't believe you're such a stereotypical idiot that you would reject such notions just for your idea of what a "man" is supposed to be, which is as flawed as every crap you spew, in an attempt to seem adult). Moreover his parents have perspectives he is missing, simply due to the fact that, despite his being raised as human, he isn't, and he hasn't been for at least half of his age, after he realized his powers.

Seriously, shut up, Jelly, go back to college, and try to not sound like a fucking black male college student age 19, who's torn apart between the teachings of his parents, idiotic conspiracy theories that only work if you are closeminded to how the world works, bigotry and attempts to assert your "masculinity" which is so fucking sad that it needs a new entry in the merriam-webster directory.

[Ramz]

As of now, I a-gree with Ivan Drago. But because I can absorb information from others and factor that information in as an unbiased spectator, I will wait for Jelly's rebuttal on the issue to make a full pledge of allegiance.

Oh shit, bid'ness about to be hnnnnnsked up

[Strange]

This better be good if it took close to a month for a response.

[Bueno Excellente]

This better be good if it took close to a month for a response.

Especially because he was still able to post here despite his computer crash