Fres Oquendo vs Andrei Arlovski?

[Big Daddy Long Stroke]

Anybody know what happened in this boxing match?  I can't find any info on it.

[Mephistopheles]

Not sure but he signed with Strikeforce today.

http://www.sherdog.com/news/news/Arlovski-Signs-with-Strikeforce-22957

[Big Daddy Long Stroke]

This is good.  Strikeforce has a descent HW division imo.  Almost comparable to UFC.

[Big Daddy Long Stroke]

The Strikeforce HW division has:

1. Overeem
2. Fedor
3. Rogers
4. Werdum
5. Silva(Bigfoot)
6. Arlovski
7. Lashley(I think he's on the verge)

Not bad, they can make some good HW matches with that stable and get some up and comers in the meantime.

[Mephistopheles]

Overeem and Rogers are fighting in May.

Fedor is possibly trying to leave Strikeforce.

Arlovski is fighting Bigfoot.

[safado]

Where does Fedor want to go???

That's a bunch of people that can give him great fights. Overeem is getting a second wind in his career and could certainly be a threat. Werdum has the tools to beat Fedor IMO, though I don't know if he would pull it off

[Big Daddy Long Stroke]

Maybe if they can get Josh Barnett, Jeff Monson, and if he can get his shit together maybe Tim Sylvia.

[Johnny Switchblade: Adventure Punk]

Anybody know what happened in this boxing match?  I can't find any info on it.

I've actually been wondering that, too. There's no talk of the results on any of the boxing or mma boards I searched.

I have a feeling Arlovski most likely got the worst of it, even though it was a charity match. Andrei looks huge compared to Fres, but Fres is a former Golden Gloves champion with a pretty good record.

[Johnny Switchblade: Adventure Punk]

Maybe if they can get Josh Barnett, Jeff Monson, and if he can get his shit together maybe Tim Sylvia.

I read that Josh Barnett was possibly going to fight in Japan soon. Less stringent drug testing

Linkety-link

[Mephistopheles]

Where does Fedor want to go???

Well if Dana is to be believed it's the UFC.

He dropped a rather obvious hint in Australia.

[safado]

That would be a HUGE reversal from Fedor's previous position. I wonder if Dana caved on any concessions. I think Fedor, if he does fight in the UFC, will try to beat the best heavies there and retire

That Josh Barnett rumor is amazing. I REALLY wish Japanese events got the same press as American ones. My dream is to fight in Japan and I think the crowds re more knowledgable there.

       Josh Barnett is a guy who is seriously underrated. I think he is one tough bastard.

[Red Volcano]

He'd get a little more credit if he didn't keep on failing steriod/hgh testing.  Same with overeem (well he hasn't been drug tested yet but highly suspected, and far more likely than Brock is).

[Strider119]

This is good.  Strikeforce has a descent HW division imo.  Almost comparable to UFC.

As long as everyone agrees no hitting in the face he should be fine.

[safado]

Everyone in MMA juices, or at least close to 85% or upwards.

Josh Barnett is as good a grappler as any BJJ start I've seen, he is big and strong, his takedowns are quite good and he mostly fails because his condtitoning and stand up are so-so.

Overeem is a huge steroid horse, , Brock is too.

I just thinkl of how much Barnett has evolved over time. He fought Mark Kerr in Abu Dhabi and got tooled. He recently fought in a a BJJ tourney versus Romulo Barral and very nearly won with the gi. His no gi work is sensational. I think if he fought Mark Kerr or a similiar limited big wrestler now in an Abu Dhabi tourney he'd get a leglock and fast. He's very smart and he's alwasy game


  Overeem is just a physical monster wit h those huge knees and Dutch stand up game plus his trusty guillotine

[PITTFOX]

I thought barnett has also beat Kerr in Abu Dhabi as well. Been a long time since I've evn kept  up on my grappling only knowledge. Also wasn't kerr more of an Arona type
grappler in Abu Dhabi?

[safado]

Kerr had a very good low single and was an otherwise limited wrestler. He fought at 90 kilosd in college and blew up to 250 after for MMA.


       In  Abu Dhabi he got takedowsn and hold downs and not much else. He took Barnett down, held him for 10 minutes and that was that. The one guy to beat him was Arona, who is similiar in his Jiu Jitsu style (stalls) They fought a 30 min match and Arone countered the low single with a double, got two points and won

[PITTFOX]

Kerr had a very good low single and was an otherwise limited wrestler. He fought at 90 kilosd in college and blew up to 250 after for MMA.


       In  Abu Dhabi he got takedowsn and hold downs and not much else. He took Barnett down, held him for 10 minutes and that was that. The one guy to beat him was Arona, who is similiar in his Jiu Jitsu style (stalls) They fought a 30 min match and Arone countered the low single with a double, got two points and won

For some reason I thought Barnett beat Kerr as well in Abu Dhabi. Yes that's what I meant he wa an Arona type Champ in Abu Dhabi. I will say that Arona should have gotten the decision over Fedor when they fought.

[safado]

Ive heard a lot of people say that but I haven't seen the fight from beginning to finish. Since then Fedor has evolved in leaps and bounds while Arona hasn't changed at all. be a diferent story today.; I have the fight on my Fedor career collection, Ill give it a look.

[Big Daddy Long Stroke]

Fedor leaving Strikeforce won't be a bad thing.  One thing they cannot do is trying and build a organazation revolving around 1 fighter.

[Kforcer]

I thought barnett has also beat Kerr in Abu Dhabi as well. Been a long time since I've evn kept  up on my grappling only knowledge. Also wasn't kerr more of an Arona type
grappler in Abu Dhabi?

No, Barnett definitely never beat Kerr. Kerr finished him in short-order with a monstrous Kimura.

Its unfair to compare Kerr to Arona, IMO, because Kerr, in his prime, was really pretty far ahead of Arona and a truly legendary wrestler.

Its true he largely utilized his wrestling talent to dominate the ADCC, but at the same time, he definitely did submit him people, such as Barnett, and nearly subbed out the legendary Mario Sperry. Actually, he might've finished his Kimura on him, I'm not sure. I know he had him in a Kimura and was chasing the finish, can't remember the final outcome other than that Kerr won big.

[safado]

Its unfair to compare Kerr to Arona, IMO, because Kerr, in his prime, was really pretty far ahead of Arona and a truly legendary wrestler.
/quote]


I disagree. I think Kerr was the first of his kind, the monstruos steroid wrestler. In his fight with Sperry he got his 2 points and held on, nearly got a choke out but Sperry hung in.

   Arona did beat Kerr and if Kerr hadn't had drug problems, I think he would have developed along the lines of Mark Coleman. Coleman hung in on muscular power and size but didn't evolve in terms of submissions or stand up or really much of all and it showed. He still fought to 45 and trashed Shogun once with a blindingly fast takedown, but look at how Randy Couture evolved (improved every fight skill wise) versus the steroid wrestlers who really just stayed the same but got older.

    Those guys COULD have done great. A good example is Ron Waterman who is also a Japanese Jiu Jitsu black belt, 45 years old and still winning fights against tough high level opponents.

   If Barnett had had a few more years under his belt he would have leg locked Kerr's knee right off his body IMO. No one knew how to deal with that kind of strength at that time , had the knowledge of leg attacks, conditioning, strength training, and versatile BJJ of today, or even the amount of cross training. barnett may not be Kerrs level of wrestler, but he certainly knows how to wrestle

[Kforcer]

Barnett is a solid wrestler; he's not anything approaching a great wrestler or even one of the top pure wrestlers in MMA. He has excellent catch-style submissions; NOT excellent wrestling. Anyway, Kerr absolutely toasted him. He subbed him and did it quick.

Kerr was a great grappler, I think you just have to give the man his due. As far as your assessment on the abilities of Coleman and Kerr, I must say, I can't disagree with you more. And there's no evidence Coleman ever did steroids, IMO. And Coleman's submissions and submission-defense was, really, quite excellent.

You might not like them, you might like Barnett better, but both of them were great, as fighters, as wrestlers, as martial artists. They did what they did and what they didn't was pretty impressive.

[safado]

Sure, they were aweesome. Not denying that at all. As for the steroids part............. come on man, Coleman competed in college at 198, he fought at nearly 7% bodyfat or less in the UFC at 255-260. Those are roids.

I'm actually complementing them. I think Coleman was the first prototype of the super wrestler who used ground and pound. My only complaint is that if he had been motivated a bit more he could have been the best of them all, winning against anyone at 45 and beyond. I think he got lazy.

    Kerr had drug problems, but I give them both their due as awesome wrestlers and MMA fighters.

[Kforcer]

Of course a 198-pound collegiate wrestler is going to get much huger once they stop killing themselves to make weight. We both know that. The man was an Olympian; you don't think he's capable of forging the kind of physique he had?

You might be complimenting them, but the truth is that you're giving neither man nearly enough credit, either for their accomplishments or their grappling ability.

[safado]

No, Olympic wrestler is an olympic wrestler. I give them both their due

[Johnny Switchblade: Adventure Punk]

According to Yahoo Answers, Arlovski won by TKO in the 3rd.

[safado]

I tend to give Coleman more credit as well. He didnt evolve but he kept fighting. I just get upset that if he had evolved he would still be a top contender. If he'd developed a vivcious stand up game

[Kforcer]

I think the world "evolved" is overused and abused by people.

Mark Kerr was an extremely talented grappler in his prime; he's one of the best ADCC competitors to date. Mark Coleman, until the Couture bout--which was hampered by the ridiculous weight-cut to 205 the UFC has had him engaging in--had only been submitted by Fedor and Nogueira. And in Fedor's case, he mounted him, took his back and nearly choked him out.

Coleman's submissions and submission defense were extremely high-level. His submission game was based his wrestling and involved a lot of brute force, but it was definitely a very good game.

[PITTFOX]

Takada

[Kforcer]

was a worked fight

[Kforcer]

Okay, I know you knew that and were be silly, but, well, who knows what.

[PITTFOX]

Yeah uneasy being silly, if I was being serious I would have elaborated. 

[safado]

Haha, Coleman looked depressed as he had to give his arm to the Yakuza

[PITTFOX]

Heel hook

[safado]

Was it, I didn't see it, I heard the reports and every news channel was screaming "work" and describing Coleman looking ...sullen as he was submitted. I should go wacth it

[Kforcer]

Takada confessed to it long ago.

[safado]

"ahem" (clears throat before self aggraandizing lecture explaining why my opinions matter and everyone should listen to meeeeeeeeeeeeeee)

Mark Coleman was a far better wrestler overall than Randy Couture. Randy adapted his skill set ofr MMA perfectly, as did Coleman. Coleman, allowed to weigh in at his natural super human weights, broke Shogun's arm in 40 seconds.. He is awesome, no doubt

    The thing is:

   IMHO

Greco works better in MMA than Freestyle. It's easeier to work into a clinch and then takedown or punsih someone standing up

Freestyle, no matter how superhumanly fast or strong you are, is easier to be sprawled and brawled. Look at Cro Cop's sprawl and ability to avoid freestyle takedowns, which are harder to set up, take longer, and leave you open to counters

Freestyle can be unstoppable if you have a high level boxing game to go with it. If you are threatening someone with punches and then suddenly shoot in, your set to go. If Coleman had that, I think he would have been dangerous for guys even like Brock Lesnar.

Coleman would never have been a BJJ guy, but he could have learned some good catch and some basic (up to purple belt ) BJJ, he would have been unbeatable today. He wouldn't be catching people in triangles but sure as shit no one would come close to him and he would have ground control that would make Brock Lesnar wet his pants.



He is still the grandfather of ground and pound and one of the best ever.

[Kforcer]

You check out Coleman against guys that are not the elite of the elite, and his submission game and submission defense seems a lot better IMO.

I gotta disagree about Greco-Roman working better than freestyle in MMA; where are the "pure" Greco guys to give the proof to this? Every single big-name Greco guy in MMA had a primary history in folkstyle wrestling as well as extensive freestyle experience.

I take your points, but I definitely rate Coleman's ground-game higher than you do.

[safado]

Well, no wrestler is really "pure". I've never trained with  GRECO GUY That couldn't shoot.


A lot of wrestling can get you hurt if you don't set it up right. Greco goes into the clinch and opens up takedowns. Freestyle shoots without a striking set uop will l leave you open up for counter punches, sprawls , knees etc.....

   It also matters how well the wrestler adapts other skills. Dan Henderson, Matt L>indland, and Randy Couture are all Greco guys . Lindland is the one with the silver medal who got ko'd the most of the bunch. The others know how to dirty box, control the cluinch, defend the ground. The works.

    I evem thought Mike Van Arsdale was a better wrerstler than Randy Couture (in pure wrestling) but Randy out fought him

[Kforcer]

Ah, but there are pure Greco guys out there.

Just not in America. The Americans are never really Greco guys. They are freestyle/folkstyle guys with Greco backgrounds.

A pure Greco guy? Cheick Kongo.